• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot

Another lefty wants people to be unemployed and poor. Who is surprised? Going to get your oil from China? Put drilling on the ballot will likely backfire on you.

I'd rather be employed and rich with tourist dollars. I'm not so myopic as to think drilling is going to contribute more to Florida's economy than it's going to take away. I'm just smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds me. You can call it left wing if you want, I just call it common sense.
 
yay Crist! :ind: He gets my vote to become FL Senator.
 
Last edited:
If more shallow drilling were allowed, this deep water and ultra deep water problem wouldn't be so prominent...

oooh boohooo poor victimized oil companies.

anyhoo if they want to drill near the shore let them do it texas, ms, la, and al. they already look like thirdworld nations anyway.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting how the actual Floridians on this thread seem to approve of this move by Crist, but the people who have no idea of what matters to us in Florida (i.e., we know what side our bread is buttered on...tourism is what makes our economy tick) are up in arms.

I'll tell ya what...you outsiders worry about your states, and let us worry about ours.

States rights, ftw.
 
Last edited:
I'm curious... what do you think will happen if we ban all offshore drilling. I mean obviously we still will have things that run on Oil/Gas, so obviously we will still need it. We will just have to buy it from other countries. Do you really think at least a percentage of what we buy from other places aren't going to be using some form of offshore drilling? So is this just another cause of "Don't ask questions"? As long as WE aren't the ones doing the drilling and yet we still reap the end result then it's all happy and nice. Or do you really think these other countries have some sort of magical oil powers where they don't damage the environment in some way?
 
I'm curious... what do you think will happen if we ban all offshore drilling. I mean obviously we still will have things that run on Oil/Gas, so obviously we will still need it. We will just have to buy it from other countries. Do you really think at least a percentage of what we buy from other places aren't going to be using some form of offshore drilling? So is this just another cause of "Don't ask questions"? As long as WE aren't the ones doing the drilling and yet we still reap the end result then it's all happy and nice. Or do you really think these other countries have some sort of magical oil powers where they don't damage the environment in some way?

I think that our country needs to find a better way to address our petroleum addiction than taking short-sighted approaches that can have an impact that lasts for decades.

I'm guessing that you're not living in an area that's being poisoned by offshore drilling, so it's easy for you to propose doing it. But for us, offshore drilling is having a drastic impact on our entire state. We're watching the oil from deepwater slowly creep closer to the places that we love, and watching people's livelihoods being destroyed moment by moment, not to mention the destruction of the beautiful place and the local wildlife. It is a daily horror show being played out right in front of us..

IMHO, we need to raise the taxes on petrochemicals to a level that forces people to make tough choices about wasteful fuel consumption, and use those taxes to fund research into sustainable alternatives.

No, I don't feel my state should be ruined so you can drive a Ford F-350. Americans need to start paying the real price for their fuel consumption choices.
 
Last edited:
I'm dreading when it reaches Panama City, Destin, and Cape San Blas...some of the most beautiful sugar sand beaches on earth, and still wild and lovely.

I've heard it's already reached Destin. I've seen projections where it wraps around the Keys and goes up the east coast. Granted, those are doomsday scenarios that probably won't happen, but even if it never gets as far as Panama City we're still talking about damage to the public image of the Gulf Coast. Tourists in the midwest will think:

Tourist 1: "Hey, let's go to Daytona Beach for spring break!"
Tourist 2: "Wait a minute, isn't that where they had that oil spill?"
Tourist 1: "Oh yeah, lets just go to California instead."

Nevermind that a simple google search can reveal that oil never got that far. It's the public perception that is at issue. If nothing else this amendment is about protecting our image. We want those idiot tourists to think of Florida as "that state that banned oil drilling."
 
Last edited:
I've heard it's already reached Destin. I've seen projections where it wraps around the Keys and goes up the east coast. Granted, those are doomsday scenarios that probably won't happen, but even if it never gets as far as Panama City we're still talking about damage to the public image of the Gulf Coast. Tourists in the midwest will think:

Tourist 1: "Hey, let's go to Daytona Beach from spring break!"
Tourist 2: "Wait a minute, isn't that where they had that oil spill?"
Tourist 1: "Oh yeah, lets just go to California instead."

Nevermind that a simple google search can reveal that oil never got that far. It's the public perception that is at issue. If nothing else this amendment is about protecting our image. We want those idiot tourists to think of Florida as "that state that banned oil drilling."

I actually have an ap on my phone that tracks the spill. So far, it hasn't reached Destin, but Okaloosa county is being very aggressive in getting ready for it because their livelihoods are so dependent on tourism. And, unlike a lot of areas, Okaloosa county is not allowing BP to dictate how things will be done. For which, frankly, I commend them.
 
Last edited:
I think that our country needs to find a better way to address our petroleum addiction than taking short-sighted approaches that can have an impact that lasts for decades.

I'm guessing that you're not living in an area that's being poisoned by offshore drilling, so it's easy for you to propose doing it. But for us, drilling right offshore our beaches can have a drastic impact on my entire state. We're watching the oil from deepwater slowly creep closer to the places that we love, and watching people's livelihoods being destroyed moment by moment.

IMHO, we need to raise the taxes on petrochemicals to a level that forces people to make tough choices about wasteful fuel consumption, and use those taxes to fund research into sustainable alternatives.

No, I don't feel my state should be ruined so you can drive a Ford F-350 and look like a bad ass.

But it's okay for OTHER places that aren't your home town to have to deal with this? And don't make silly little straw-men arguments either. I drive a Neon, tiny little car, not some big huge car. The point is that there will still be offshore drilling. Do you really think other countries will handle it better and somehow not end up damaging the environment. I agree that we do need better solutions, but to act like we are doing some great service by just shifting the dirt from under one carpet to the next is nothing more then hypocrisy.

You're probably one of those people that's okay with the fact that other countries suffer so we can live in a "Greener" world. (Chinese pay toxic price for a green world - Times Online)

See I can make straw-men as well! :D
 
Last edited:
And, unlike a lot of areas, Okaloosa county is not allowing BP to dictate how things will be done. For which, frankly, I commend them.

Nice. That's good to hear, both that they aren't hit yet and that they aren't letting BP beancounters push them around. Destin/Ft. Walton area would fall apart without their beaches, so I'm glad they aren't just taking it on the chin.
 
But it's okay for OTHER places that aren't your home town to have to deal with this. And don't make silly little straw-men arguments either.

Your entire post is a strawman.

For the record, yes, I think other countries handle their dependence on petroleum much better than we do.

I think America should stop subsidizing the oil companies and risking the destruction of our land and water.

I think we should tax the **** out of petroleum products to encourage Americans to make better choices about fuel consumption.

And, I practice what I preach with a solar water heater, responsible fuel consumption, conserving energy in my home, and recycling like mad.

I don't believe our current way of life is sustainable, and hard choices will have to be made. However, the era of the federal government subsidizing the actual cost of petroleum drilling and manufacturing should END. TODAY.

And, while I can't control what other people do in their states re: drilling, I can vote against it being done here, where I live.

You like oil so much, you should speculate and dig a well in your backyard. I hear it's clean energy.

For the record, Europe is kicking our ass in the sustainable technology war, while those from the dark ages in the U.S. fight against progress.

http://www.energyportal.eu/latest-g...europe-technology-race-with-china-and-us.html

I do have to question, why, as a libertarian, you are so opposed to letting Floridians decide, for ourselves, whether we want drilling off our coasts.
 
Last edited:
Your entire post is a strawman. Yes, I think other countries handle their dependence on petroleum much better than we do. Yes, I think America should stop subsidizing the oil companies and risking the destruction of our land and water. Yes, I think we should tax the **** out of petroleum products to encourage Americans to make better choices about fuel consumption. And yes, I practice what I preach with a solar water heater, responsible fuel consumption, conserving energy, and recycling like mad.

The fact is that no matter where we get the fuel there will be offshore drilling by someone somewhere. So all you're asking us it to get rid of ours and then buy it from somewhere else. So essentially we are keeping the same risk factor of something going terribly wrong, but NOW we are going to be paying a lot more for it. It doesn't solve ANYTHING! So unless you want to COMPLETELY end our dependency on oil right here right now (You better have one heck of a scientific break-through in the next few minutes) then there is nothing we can do. You can preach all you want about responsible fuel consumption but the point is we STILL NEED FUEL. We will get it from somewhere. And just because it came from somewhere else doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the risks. It just means you don't have to see the outcome of the risks.
 
The fact is that no matter where we get the fuel there will be offshore drilling by someone somewhere. So all you're asking us it to get rid of ours and then buy it from somewhere else. So essentially we are keeping the same risk factor of something going terribly wrong, but NOW we are going to be paying a lot more for it. It doesn't solve ANYTHING! So unless you want to COMPLETELY end our dependency on oil right here right now (You better have one heck of a scientific break-through in the next few minutes) then there is nothing we can do. You can preach all you want about responsible fuel consumption but the point is we STILL NEED FUEL. We will get it from somewhere. And just because it came from somewhere else doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the risks. It just means you don't have to see the outcome of the risks.

We'd need a lot less fuel immediately if we stopped subsidizing the actual costs of fuel, and forced the American public to pay for the actual costs of the fuel they use. We saw this after fuel prices topped $3 a gallon for the first time, in fact. Fuel usage by Americans drastically decreased, to the point that fuel prices dropped. Sales of trucks and SUVs toppled and sales of economy sized cars went up.

People would adapt. And, I have no doubt that the market would fill the gap.

Tell me, as a libertarian, how to you justify telling Floridians that we can't enact a ban on drilling off our coast?
 
Last edited:
I do have to question, why, as a libertarian, you are so opposed to letting Floridians decide, for ourselves, whether we want drilling off our coasts.


Because I'm opposed to hypocrisy funnily enough. Like I said all you're doing is shifting the dirt from one rug to another and then saying it's not your problem anymore.
And did you even read the article I posted. China is already dealing with the backlash of our "Green" movement. Some parts of China that used to be great farmlands now can't grow a thing. All because you want to have your Prius, your little "Green" lightbulbs, and your turbines. The point is a movement to have sustainable energy is good! But rushing into it causes things like this to happen and it destroys lives and destroys people. You treat me like I have some sort of love for oil, you probably think I bathe in the stuff or something. I don't, but I am a realist and I realize that while sustainable energy is good we can't just flip a switch and say "Okay we don't need oil anymore". I would LOVE to not have to deal with oil, but until that's a reality we shouldn't go making it harder for us to get oil. If we have to spend more money on oil that's less money we can spend on switching to alternate energy sources and finding new forms of sustainable energy.
 
Tell me, as a libertarian, how to you justify telling Floridians that we can't enact a ban on drilling off our coast?

What the heck is wrong with you? I never said you COULDN'T. I'm saying you SHOULDN'T because it is stupid. Gosh stop taking everything I say to one extreme or another. READ WHAT I SAY AND DEBATE IT! Stop forcing my argument into an extreme and then debating it that way because that doesn't accomplish anything.
 
From the Miami Herald



I for one am thrilled about this. One thing Florida definitely does not need is a repeat of this oil spill. Of course, Florida already bans offshore drilling, but a constitutional amendment is probably the best way to preserve the lesson from this tragedy and protect Florida's beaches from a future of short sighted oil-drilling.

Of course, this is being turned into a Republican talking point, to be used as a bludgeon against Crist in his upcoming Senate race against tea party hack Marco Rubio. What else is new. But I don't think it will work, the people of Florida know what is in their best interest and Crist really is looking out for the state here.


As long as it is deep off shore oil drilling that they ban I say good. Logic should dictate that if it takes more than a week a to fix and possibly decades to clean up then you shouldn't drill there.
 
I would LOVE to not have to deal with oil, but until that's a reality we shouldn't go making it harder for us to get oil. If we have to spend more money on oil that's less money we can spend on switching to alternate energy sources and finding new forms of sustainable energy.

Wrong. Forcing the American public to pay the REAL PRICE for petroleum products provides a financial incentive that is not currently present to change our way of life. We've already seen how it works when gas prices shot up above $3 a gallon. In reality, petroleum products in America are heavily subsidized by tax incentives and corporate welfare. The fact that the actual price of these products to us as taxpayers is hidden from us to keep us from having sticker shock is a huge part of the reason that we haven't pursued sustainable measure more aggressively.

As far as China's decision, China has every right to determine for themselves how their priorities will be set. If they choose to poison their water and land, that's THEIR CHOICE. I don't have a say over what China does or doesn't do, though the sustainable measures I've enacted in my house don't rely on toxic production methods, for the most part. What I do have a say on is what we do IN FLORIDA. If, by voting for this measure, I make it less likely that there will be another deepwater, that makes me happy. If by voting for this measure, I make gas prices go up, GREAT. That gives Americans around the U.S. an incentive to reduce their petroleum consumption.
 
Because I'm opposed to hypocrisy funnily enough. Like I said all you're doing is shifting the dirt from one rug to another and then saying it's not your problem anymore.

You see, these particular rugs are in our house, and we like our nice clean rugs, in fact many of us depend on them. It is our perogative whether or not we allow dirty boots to track **** onto our rugs in our house or not. You may see it as shifting dirt to other rugs, perhaps so, but we see it as keeping the dirt from spreading to ours. Other rugs are not our rugs, and we have [essentially] no control nor say as to whether or not dirt gets tracked onto them. We happen to depend on our nice clean rugs they are integral to our economy, as well as to our pride, and we would like to keep them nice and clean, and we can and will use what control and say we have in this matter to decide what happens to our rugs here in our house..
 
Last edited:
As long as it is deep off shore oil drilling that they ban I say good. Logic should dictate that if it takes more than a week a to fix and possibly decades to clean up then you shouldn't drill there.

That's very reasonable of you jamesrage!
 
Wrong. Forcing the American public to pay the REAL PRICE for petroleum products provides a financial incentive that is not currently present to change our way of life. We've already seen how it works when gas prices shot up above $3 a gallon. In reality, petroleum products in America are heavily subsidized by tax incentives and corporate welfare. The fact that the actual price of these products to us as taxpayers is hidden from us to keep us from having sticker shock is a huge part of the reason that we haven't pursued sustainable measure more aggressively.

As far as China's decision, China has every right to determine for themselves how their priorities will be set. If they choose to poison their water and land, that's THEIR CHOICE. I don't have a say over what China does or doesn't do, though the sustainable measures I've enacted in my house don't rely on toxic production methods, for the most part. What I do have a say on is what we do IN FLORIDA. If, by voting for this measure, I make it less likely that there will be another deepwater, that makes me happy. If by voting for this measure, I make gas prices go up, GREAT. That gives Americans around the U.S. an incentive to reduce their petroleum consumption.

Well then let's make them pay the real price. But let's also make sure we use the RIGHT kinds of sustainable energy. And you're right they do have the right to poison their water and land, but you seem to fail to see that SOMEONE has to get poisoned and YOU are reaping the benefits. And if that is how we are going to do sustainable resources how is that any worse then what we have in place already? You're all gun-ho for making sure YOUR land doesn't have anything bad for it (as you should be) but you don't seem to mind that some of our "Green" solutions threaten other people's land, and in my book that is hypocrisy.
 
You see, these particular rugs are in our house, and we like our nice clean rugs, in fact many of us depend on them. It is our perogative whether or not we allow dirty boots to track **** onto our rugs in our house or not. You may see it as shifting dirt to other rugs, perhaps so, but we see it as keeping the dirt from spreading to ours. Other rugs are not our rugs, and we have [essentially] no control nor say as to whether or not dirt gets tracked onto them. We happen to depend on our nice clean rugs they are integral to our economy, as well as to our pride, and we would like to keep them nice and clean, and we can and will use what control and say we have in this matter to decide what happens to our rugs here in our house..

So you have no problem with someone having to be dirty as long as it is not you?
 
Crist wants drilling ban on the ballot


Crist, and all those that are frothing at the mouth over this ban are just plain ignorant.


j-mac
 
So you have no problem with someone having to be dirty as long as it is not you?

You are trying to set up a straw man here and you are wrong.

to continue with analogies

I would rather no one got dirty, but if someone else decides to let pigs wallow in their yard to make a few bucks selling ham, that does not mean that I have to as well. They have their product to sell and their, means of income for their household, if they decide to not want to be in that business so be it the cost of bacon would go up, and It would likely pressure people to have more pancakes and less bacon. Our household has other ways of making money and we do not need the pigs.
 
Back
Top Bottom