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Pentagon sends out "don't ask, don't tell" survey

Jetboogieman said:
I think this is right...

However why don't we send out a survey on their opinions on the War in Afghanistan and Iraq, and if they don't like it... shouldn't they get to leave?

Not contradicting your point just wanna know.
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Sure, we would probably vote to stay until we win, thats how we rolled.
 
Navy Pride said:
Huge difference my left wing friend....They sign up to fight our wars not to be used for social experimentation by a far out left wing administration who could give a **** less about them............
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1) There is no social experimentation. The rest of the country handles openly gay people just fine.

2) They do not sign up "to fight wars", they sign up to serve their country.

3) The whole left hates the troops thing is old and retarded. A lot of the left in fact served this country and proudly.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Because they're getting blown up, shot at and mentally ****ed with 24/7 for 6, 12 and 18 months. it's just NOT the time to alter the way things are structured and handled :shrug:

I don't support ANY major policy change during such a time - it's bad enough swapping out Generals . . . add onto that a heavy policy component that's controversial. I think it could easily wait 'til after the war - and maybe cases and issues between now and ___ be simply put on hold and ignored - processed later.
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It's not really a major policy change. Gays already serve, some fairly openly. The only significant difference will be that gays do not have to fear saying the wrong thing and getting discharged.
 
Navy Pride said:
First of all 86 senators voted to take Saddam out and your daddy "Slick Willie" called for regime change...Second your other daddy Hussein Obama just sent 30,000 troops to Afghanistan, third you are clueless what its like to live in a space a little bigger then your living room with 100 other men.......Fourth our military is there to fight our wars and not to be used as a social experiment.........
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Navy Pride said:
I don't know your husband or what branch of the service he is in...........I do know that in the Navy it won't work............
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I have lived in those spaces, and I have served in the navy, and it will work.
 
Redress said:
It's not really a major policy change. Gays already serve, some fairly openly. The only significant difference will be that gays do not have to fear saying the wrong thing and getting discharged.
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Which is why I suggest that they halt discharge via DADT action - and then focus on actually repealing it in Congress/on paper/in the dockets later on.

In the act of repealing they have to then give protection against harassment which would likely increase for a while - are they prepared to do that?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Which is why I suggest that they halt discharge via DADT action - and then focus on actually repealing it in Congress/on paper/in the dockets later on.

In the act of repealing they have to then give protection against harassment which would likely increase for a while - are they prepared to do that?
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There is no evidence that gays sexually harass people more than straits do. All forms of harassment are already against milkitary regs, and you can bet that training on how to handle any such incidents already happens, and will be done again(and again and again). The protection from harassment is already there.
 
Redress said:
There is no evidence that gays sexually harass people more than straits do. All forms of harassment are already against milkitary regs, and you can bet that training on how to handle any such incidents already happens, and will be done again(and again and again). The protection from harassment is already there.
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No - I'm not talking "from gays to straight" I'm talking "from straights to gays" - - sure, some gays will get happy about it and hit on others, that would be handled like all other means of sexual harassment.
But it's the other side of the issue - the "I didn't tell, it didn't matter" issues that have been happening and will likely increase while the homophobes adjust.

I don't think they're capable of handling that right now. . . meaning I don't think that command is going to be able to quell the backlash and explosion of diverse attitudes and personal attacks that will happen towards gays.

They still can't protect women from sexual abuse and other extreme acts of misogyny - how would this be any better or safer?
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
No - I'm not talking "from gays to straight" I'm talking "from straights to gays" - - sure, some gays will get happy about it and hit on others, that would be handled like all other means of sexual harassment.
But it's the other side of the issue - the "I didn't tell, it didn't matter" issues that have been happening and will likely increase while the homophobes adjust.

I don't think they're capable of handling that right now. . . meaning I don't think that command is going to be able to quell the backlash and explosion of diverse attitudes and personal attacks that will happen towards gays.

They still can't protect women from sexual abuse and other extreme acts of misogyny - how would this be any better or safer?
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Again, there will be training(oh lord, there will be so much training), and a plan in place to handle things like this. Obama, rightly, gave the pentagon the year it asked to put a plan in place. I can promise you they have not spent the first 6 months of it sitting on their hands, nor will they spend the next 6 months doing that. They are preparing, setting up training courses, defining any policy that needs to be in place, and so on.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its about time we found out the troops in the field about this issue instead of the talking heads in Washington....

Pentagon sends out "don't ask, don't tell" survey - CNN.com

Pentagon sends out "don't ask, don't tell" surveyFrom Barbara Starr, CNNJuly 7, 2010 4:15 p.m. EDT

Washington (CNN) -- The Pentagon on Wednesday began sending out to troops a survey of more than 100 questions seeking their views on the impact of repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" restrictions prohibiting gays and lesbians from openly serving in the U.S. military.

An administration official confirmed to CNN that the survey is being sent to 200,000 active duty troops and 200,000 reserve troops. The official declined to be identified because the survey has not officially been made public.
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It's so funny to me that you believe in a soldier's ability to kill on command but you think he would cower and cringe if he was suspicious that the guy in the shower next to him thought he had a sweet ass.
 
jallman said:
It's so funny to me that you believe in a soldier's ability to kill on command but you think he would cower and cringe if he was suspicious that the guy in the shower next to him thought he had a sweet ass.
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LOL . . . that's some serious pornology right there - a bunch of lean mean killing machines nakey in the shower together
 
Aunt Spiker said:
LOL . . . that's some serious pornology right there - a bunch of lean mean killing machines nakey in the shower together
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Fully two thirds of my porn collection begins just like that. :D
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Ok - walk me through your mindset so I can understand how you're thinking about this.

If they repealed it and let gays serve openly, say, starting tomorrow - how would that effect your work-situation? Just what exactly *would* change for you?
right away probably nothing . . . so what problems do you forsee happening in, say, a week - a month - a year?

And, in these problems/situation - how would you deal with it?
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I can only speak for the Navy but there are a lot of guys in the Navy who will not serve openly with gays for obvious reasons I won't go into, nor should they have to....Again for the 3rd time these guys enlisted to protect this country and the people in it and to fight your wars, not to be used a a social experiment by a left wing administration......What part of that do you not understand? I talk to enlisted personnel all the time and they are not happy with this............We shall see how the surveys come out............
 
Redress said:
SO in other words, when the Obama administration gave the Pentagon a year to study the issue, it was a good thing. Come on Navy, say it...Obama did a good thing. You can do it!
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Except its Obama's fault that this social experimentation is being tried................
 
Redress said:
It does not effect you either Navy, so why do you care?
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Because its my Navy where I spent 21 years of my life and I would be against anything that is detrimental to morale and unit cohesion of the men serving in it...............
 
Redress said:
It's not really a major policy change. Gays already serve, some fairly openly. The only significant difference will be that gays do not have to fear saying the wrong thing and getting discharged.
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In 21 years service I have never seen a gay person serve openly....Every gay person I ever knew wis discharged with and undesireable discharge....You served with females...There may be lesbians serving openly, I don't know about that.....If you knew of a gay person serving openly or you had relations with a lesbian and did not report it you were in direct violation of the UCMJ.....
 
I am glad to see the DOD put out these surveys on how it effects the men serving.............If the surveys come back backing the repeal of DADT I will not complain about it again....I will say I told you so when the trouble starts...........I hope they break it down by services............
 
Navy Pride said:
Except its Obama's fault that this social experimentation is being tried................
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It's not social experimentation Navy. The rest of society deals with gay people just fine. We are way past the point of it being an experiment.
 
Navy Pride said:
Because its my Navy where I spent 21 years of my life and I would be against anything that is detrimental to morale and unit cohesion of the men serving in it...............
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And I would be against anything like that too. This however is not that. And the point stands, this does not effect you, so by your logic, your opinion is not of value.
 
Redress said:
And I would be against anything like that too. This however is not that. And the point stands, this does not effect you, so by your logic, your opinion is not of value.
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But Navy needs to stand up in defence of Naval personell, who would otherwise be defenceless against the advances of the gays.
 
Navy Pride said:
In 21 years service I have never seen a gay person serve openly....Every gay person I ever knew wis discharged with and undesireable discharge....You served with females...There may be lesbians serving openly, I don't know about that.....If you knew of a gay person serving openly or you had relations with a lesbian and did not report it you were in direct violation of the UCMJ.....
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In 6 years of service(pre-DADT), I knew of 2 gay people, neither advertised it, but neither hid it. It was well known they where gay. Hell, our skipper made a joke about one of them and being gay.
 
Redress said:
It's not social experimentation Navy. The rest of society deals with gay people just fine. We are way past the point of it being an experiment.
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The rest of society does not have to sleep, shower and dress with gay sailors......huge difference............
 
Redress said:
And I would be against anything like that too. This however is not that. And the point stands, this does not effect you, so by your logic, your opinion is not of value.
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We will let the military people decide...If they dump DADT I will live with it and not complain............Can you say the sake if they uphold DADT? I think not..............
 
Jetboogieman said:
But Navy needs to stand up in defence of Naval personell, who would otherwise be defenceless against the advances of the gays.
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The military does not need the distraction...They are busy enough with the job they have to do...........
 
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