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Napolitano: ‘You’re Never Going to Totally Seal That Border’

Honestly, if we crack down on employers, actually check IDs, and prevent illegals from getting any jobs

It will do absolutely **** all from stopping the people who we actually need to stop from getting in this country, it will do absolutely nothing to stop Los Zetas and MS-13.
 
There's really not a whole lot I can disagree with...

I really can't believe the irony; the government is always willing to go to war with a nation because they MIGHT be able to get a WMD some years from now... and here's an ACTUAL legitimate JUST WAR and they are standing down.

I really can't side with landmines.

It wouldn't be random unmarked landmines it would be clearly marked landmines whose sole intent would be to dissuade them from crossing the border like the ones along the Guantanomo border or the ones in the demilatirized zone in Korea.
 
Should we gun down jaywalkers too? Afterall they are also guilty of a crime! I can see it now, a glorious field of sniper towers across our urban landscape gunning down any who dare cross outside the designated crosswalk.

Illegal immigration is a serious issue and should be addressed, but we need to maintain some sense of perspective here.

Once again this is a war, Los Zetas is murdering hundreds of ****ing people every ****ing day on both sides of the border and in addition to running the entirety of Northern Mexico has actually taken over territory from the U.S., we're not talking about a street gang here we're talking about a highly disciplined organization with a military command structure which was founded by a special forces unit of trained assassins armed to the teeth with unlimited funds and resources, there is no other way to secure the border than to resort to a war footing and that means a no man's land along the border with anti-personel mines and shoot on site authorization for our border guards. These guys make Pablo Escobar look like a *****.
 
It's not a leaky faucet. It's a two thousand mile border with a group of people that have a strong financial incentive to get across. Commenting that it can't be totally sealed is being realistic, not a dereliction of duty. You people really will take absolutely anything you can get wont you?

Short of a ten foot concrete wall with barbed wire across the entire thing you're not even going to make a dent in crossings.

I don't think that's true. A dinky fence has made quite a difference so far. And maybe a concrete wall isn't a bad idea.

And you said, "You people really will take absolutely anything you can get wont you?"-- of course they will...and that's wise. When you're handing out water at the beach on a hot day, I'll take any amount you'll give me, if I didn't bring my own. And so would YOU...so what do you think you're saying?
 
You know what, Napolitano is right. We will never totally seal our border with Mexico. Just like we'll never totally prevent murder. Or totally wipe out illiteracy. Or totally do any number of things. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to reduce the problem in a cost effective manner.

Focusing only on border enforcement is short sighted. Its part of the solution, but not the entire solution. As has been said by several folks we need to remove the incentives for coming here. How do we do this? Enact strong penalties for employers that hire illegals and aggressively enforce them. And remove all government benefits from illegal aliens - no welfare, no unemployment, no public schools for illegal children, no healthcare beyond immediate life saving measures, no driver's licenses. Nothing. (some of these things would require addressing Constitutional issues). With the lure of our social safety net and employment, the desire to come here illegally will diminish. Couple this with reasonable and effective border enforcement measures and we'll see a significant reduction in illegal immigration.

No one is asking or expecting a complete 100% reduction in illegal immigration. We're expecting government to actually do something besides turn a blind eye to the problem.

Just because someonthing can't be done at 100% doesn't mean it shouldn't be done at all. Realistically we will never stop all illegal immigrants but we can do everything we can to get them to cross the border in a legal manner.

After reading this entire thread, the only recourses solicited that make sense are the two above.

Those who are advocating setting up a "no man's land" or ordering board patrol agents to shoot innocent men, women and children on sight are purely gutless! If you want that kind of action, I suggest you enlist and take up arms against the Taliban and Al Quaida in Afghanistan. The U.S. is a civilized society where immigrants have helped shape this nation. As an immigrant nation, we can't turn our backs on our moral principles just because we have an illegal immigration problem mixed with a massive drug problem with our souther boarder neighbor.

The solution to our illegal immigration problem is very simple but it will take both nations - the U.S. and Mexico - taking the necessary measure to deter illegal board crossings.

1. Strengthen U.S. immigration laws to include "strong penalties for employers that hire illegals and aggressively enforce them."
2. Remove the incentives for illegal aliens to come here.
3. Hire more board patrol agents and vigorously monitor checkpoints.
4. Start checking IDs. Those who aren't here legally send them back!
5. Continue working with a Mexican government that takes illegal board crossing, as well as drug smuggling seriously! The Mexican government needs to somehow be made aware that it's in it's nation's own interest to improve their economy and provide social programs that address the needs of its citizens.

To me, #5 is the biggest issue that breads the illegal immigration problem along the U.S./Mexico boarder. Mexico needs to begin the work to provide better living conditions for their poor. Until that happens, the U.S. will always have an illegal immigration problem. But gunning down illegals in cold blood IS NOT the answer.
 
she's right. there will always be people willing to go to any length to reach the U.S.
 
After reading this entire thread, the only recourses solicited that make sense are the two above.

Those who are advocating setting up a "no man's land" or ordering board patrol agents to shoot innocent men, women and children on sight are purely gutless!

No we're saying set up a demilatirezed zone in which officers would have shoot on sight authority. This designated demilitarized zone would employ the use of anti-personal mines as well.

If you want that kind of action, I suggest you enlist and take up arms against the Taliban and Al Quaida in Afghanistan.

The reason why we can't finish of AQ and the Taliban is because we can't secure the Pakistani-Afghan border. It seems much more feasable to find a solution a little closer to home.

The U.S. is a civilized society where immigrants have helped shape this nation.

Apparently we must not be a civilized nation because of the 38th parallel.

As an immigrant nation, we can't turn our backs on our moral principles

Stuff it, the U.S. excepts more legal immigrants annually than any other country on the planet.

just because we have an illegal immigration problem mixed with a massive drug problem with our souther boarder neighbor.

I could give a **** about the drug problem, this isn't just a drug cartel Los Zetas is a paramilitary organization founded and run by an elite special forces assassination squad with unlimited funds and resources which has already conquered most of Northern Mexico and has conquered U.S. territory and is brutally murdering anyone who gets in their way on both sides of the border and has infiltrated this country from sea to shining sea by contracting to MS-13 and various other Latino gangs. Cracking down on employers isn't going to do ****.

The solution to our illegal immigration problem is very simple but it will take both nations - the U.S. and Mexico - taking the necessary measure to deter illegal board crossings.

The Mexican government isn't able to do anything about Los Zetas either because they simply can't or because they have been gotten to. The only way to end the threat of Los Zetas to American citizens is to seal the border like the 38th parallel.
 
Napolitano is an idiot. Like we don't know that. She is just another idealogue bound put political expediancy ahead of security. She is turning into another Janet Reno.
 
The Mexican government isn't able to do anything about Los Zetas either because they simply can't or because they have been gotten to. The only way to end the threat of Los Zetas to American citizens is to seal the border like the 38th parallel.

Ok, and whats our government doing about this issue?

Agent Ferris, I always laugh when I hear Americans criticize another government for corruption and act like ours isn't.

We all get exactly the government we deserve. Period
 
she's right. there will always be people willing to go to any length to reach the U.S.

Well, there will always be illegal immigration, if it's like 1000 per year, and people that simply overstay their welcome, it wouldn't be NEARLY the same detriment to our economy. When you're getting into thousands per DAY, and including ARMED and DANGEROUS drug dealers thats a very different and unnecessary situation to allow to go on unheeded for as long as it has.
 
If you had a leaky faucet would you close it as best you can so that only a little water gets through or do you let the water faucet run at full blast?

Neither you, nor Texmaster get my point.

I'm saying that what Napolitano said is only honest. The wall isn't going to completely solve the problem.

Do it. Fine.

But, if you don't go further, you're really not doing a damn thing. You're cutting it down, and that's fine. But people are acting like if we don't get that wall up, we're supporting it.

That's not the case.

Why can't anyone - ANYONE - get to the actual root of the issue, instead of focusing on the surface issues?
 
Neither you, nor Texmaster get my point.

I'm saying that what Napolitano said is only honest. The wall isn't going to completely solve the problem.

Do it. Fine.

But, if you don't go further, you're really not doing a damn thing. You're cutting it down, and that's fine. But people are acting like if we don't get that wall up, we're supporting it.

That's not the case.

Why can't anyone - ANYONE - get to the actual root of the issue, instead of focusing on the surface issues?

I never claimed the wall or sealing the border is the only solution nor do I think anyone else who is against illegal immigration claimed the wall and or sealing the border is the only solution. When we see a pro-illegal saying we can't totally seal the border we see it as code for we are not going to try to do anything about it.
 
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she's right. there will always be people willing to go to any length to reach the U.S.

Here's my idea: destroy the American economy and then no one will want to come. Oh wait, Bush already did that in 2007.
 
Ok, and whats our government doing about this issue?

Not enough but to do more we would need to seal the border and send the troops into Mexico.

Agent Ferris, I always laugh when I hear Americans criticize another government for corruption and act like ours isn't.

Our government isn't anywhere near as corrupt as that of Mexico's. The U.S. ranks 19 on Transparency Internationals Corruption Perception Index; whereas, Mexico ranks 89, regardless I clearly said "because either they simply can't....".

We all get exactly the government we deserve. Period

Really? Even German victims of the holocaust? :roll:
 
Neither you, nor Texmaster get my point.

I'm saying that what Napolitano said is only honest. The wall isn't going to completely solve the problem.

Do it. Fine.

True... the wall alone can't fix the problem, and the US - Mexico border is many miles of desert so it also makes patrols difficult... but I mean, motion detectors that would notify people of movement in specific areas would make it alot easier to track down those that cross... or having well defined mine fields acting as a deterrent that would limit the crossing points that can be used...

This is a SERIOUS problem, that SERIOUSLY needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW... (politically speaking "Right now" can mean anywhere from immediately to 6 months or more down the road). Cops are getting killed, farmers are being killed, hell, the cops are litterally OVERWHELMED AND BEGGING the federal government for help.

That help IS NOT COMING!!!! SO, that leaves limited options as to how to handle this increasingly deadly situation.

But, if you don't go further, you're really not doing a damn thing. You're cutting it down, and that's fine. But people are acting like if we don't get that wall up, we're supporting it.

That's not the case.

No, it's not if you 'don't put the wall up' you're supporting it... but the political INACTION on this issue is by that same virtue SUPPORTING the illegals, Obama's people WANT the border problem to get SO BAD that the people give up and tell the government "YOU MUST do something." at which time Obama will say, I'm gonna get tough on this issue and I'm gonna steamroll this immigration bill through the process... the bill will be pre-written of course, some repoublicans will sponsor it (to make it 'bipartisan') NOBODY will read it, and then it gets signed into law, when the people find out the solution to the problem : AMNESTY. Make the 'illegals' LEGAL. Done. Problem solved. Now the illegals become a voting block.

You should look into 'la raza' and 'le reconquista', and what is REALLY GOING ON down there... These people that are invading (aside from the poor families that are just trying to escape mexico because it's pretty much a collapsed state run by thugs, the poor families really are victims in this case, but as a country the US has been far too lenient on illegal immigration for far too long, and it's essentially acted as a steam-valve to prevent the mexican people from taking back their government. Instead, they figure that by following through on "the plan of san diego" (Google that) that they will have a better life.

Why can't anyone - ANYONE - get to the actual root of the issue, instead of focusing on the surface issues?

The actual ROOT of the issue is that we are a beacon of freedom, and we are very generous about who we let move here to BECOME AMERICANS, that desperate people try to get in by any means necessary. Now, if those DESPERATE PEOPLE instead of trying to flee realized that their only option was to fight, then Mexico might learn first hand what freedom is all about.

That said, I'm saddened to admit that MOST american's have FORGOTTEN why freedom is such a fragile jewel in a world most often run by tyrants, and it might not be until freedom is gone that the people realize why freedom is worth fighting for... like those red coat protesters in Thailand... so thirsty for freedom that they are litterally trying to use slingshots against sniper fire.

Is that what you see as the ROOT of the issue?
 
True... the wall alone can't fix the problem, and the US - Mexico border is many miles of desert so it also makes patrols difficult... but I mean, motion detectors that would notify people of movement in specific areas would make it alot easier to track down those that cross... or having well defined mine fields acting as a deterrent that would limit the crossing points that can be used...

This is a SERIOUS problem, that SERIOUSLY needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW... (politically speaking "Right now" can mean anywhere from immediately to 6 months or more down the road). Cops are getting killed, farmers are being killed, hell, the cops are litterally OVERWHELMED AND BEGGING the federal government for help.

That help IS NOT COMING!!!! SO, that leaves limited options as to how to handle this increasingly deadly situation.

“Man... hath by nature a power.... to preserve his property - that is, his life, liberty, and estate - against the injuries and attempts of other men.” -- John Locke 2nd Treatise of Government

Of course then the individual will be arrested by the same State that refuses to lift a finger to fullfill one of the sole legitimate raisons d'etre they can claim for existing in the first place.
 
Nah I'm guessing he blames capitalism. Care to wager?

You don't freaking know me. What the ****?!?

The problem is that we promise to be the land of opportunity but deny it way too readily to those who seek it.

To me, one of the easiest ways to fix the problem is to spread our beliefs on good pay for good work around the world so our jobs stop fleeing to places like Mexico where a factor worker gets paid less than a restaurant worker here.

Seriously, when a factory worker in Mexico is getting paid $3/hour, but the same person could be a line cook here for $7.50/hour - what the **** would you do?

It's pure and simple economics. We're spreading our corporatism; but we're not spreading our message for respect for the worker. Crap, we're trying to tear down the respect for the worker in this nation.

The solution a lot of people who want to build walls and shoot women and children here want to propose is to turn our nation into another Mexico. If we lower our worker conditions to the level of theirs, sure, they'll stop coming. That's a good solution.
 
You don't freaking know me. What the ****?!?

The problem is that we promise to be the land of opportunity but deny it way too readily to those who seek it.

Bull****ing****, the U.S. allows in more legal immigrants than anyother country on the planet.

To me, one of the easiest ways to fix the problem is to spread our beliefs on good pay for good work around the world so our jobs stop fleeing to places like Mexico where a factor worker gets paid less than a restaurant worker here.

Gee how'd I guess, you blame the exploitive nature of capitalism. Oh fyi factory workers in American firms in Mexico get payed more than factory workers in Mexican firms in Mexico. Jobs in American firms in Mexico are in high demand.

Seriously, when a factory worker in Mexico is getting paid $3/hour, but the same person could be a line cook here for $7.50/hour - what the **** would you do?

It's pure and simple economics. We're spreading our corporatism; but we're not spreading our message for respect for the worker. Crap, we're trying to tear down the respect for the worker in this nation.

Um so what would your solution be? Having the state step in and end the outsourcing of labour? Do you even know what the definition of corporatism actually is? Anyways how exactly would putting an end to the outsourcing of labour in the U.S. labour increase wages in Mexico?

Don't get me wrong I actually want to end the outsourcing of labour, the best way to go about this would be to end corporatism in this country by ending state interventionism into the economy which forces corporations to outsource labour due to high taxation rates, union deals, regulatory commissions etc. etc.. But I bet your solution to ending corporatism is with more corporatist policies; such as, promoting protectionist policies? In fact I'd bet dollars to donuts that you're a huge fan of tripartism.

The solution a lot of people who want to build walls and shoot women and children

And by this you mean a demilatirized zone along the border to put an end to the clear and present danger to the security of the United States posed by Los Zetas. "Won't someone please think of the children," isn't a legitimate argument when hundreds of people are being murderered every day on both sides of the border and Los Zetas has conquered U.S. territory.

here want to propose is to turn our nation into another Mexico. If we lower our worker conditions to the level of theirs, sure, they'll stop coming. That's a good solution.

Um so the demilatirized zone in along the 38th parallel has hurt the South Korean economy and lowered South Korean living standards to those of North Korea?
 
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Bull****ing****, the U.S. allows in more legal immigrants than anyother country on the planet.



Gee how'd I guess, you blame the exploitive nature of capitalism. Oh fyi factory workers in American firms in Mexico get payed more than factory workers in Mexican firms in Mexico. Jobs in American firms in Mexico are in high demand.



Um so what would your solution be? Having the state step in and end the outsourcing of labour? Do you even know what the definition of corporatism actually is? Anyways how exactly would putting an end to the outsourcing of labour in the U.S. labour increase wages in Mexico?

Don't get me wrong I actually want to end the outsourcing of labour, the best way to go about this would be to end corporatism in this country by ending state interventionism into the economy which forces corporations to outsource labour due to high taxation rates, union deals, regulatory commissions etc. etc.. But I bet your solution to ending corporatism is with more corporatist policies; such as, promoting protectionist policies? In fact I'd bet dollars to donuts that you're a huge fan of tripartism.



And by this you mean a demilatirized zone along the border to put an end to the clear and present danger to the security of the United States posed by Los Zetas. "Won't someone please think of the children," isn't a legitimate argument when hundreds of people are being murderered every day on both sides of the border and Los Zetas has conquered U.S. territory.



Um so the demilatirized zone in along the 38th parallel has hurt the South Korean economy and lowered South Korean living standards to those of North Korea?

Until you read this and realize that this is a world issue, you will be ignored.

Immigration ? Global Issues

This is a global issue and until Western economies realize this, this issue will continue.

Don't be so immature.
 
Not enough but to do more we would need to seal the border and send the troops into Mexico.

Are we willing to wall off Canada as well to keep terrorists out? Seriously, why shouldn't we fix Mexico? We send money to places like Egypt, etc among others. Yes, Egypt! Where, the GSJ (Global Salafi Jihad) started. Their leadership is Egyptian except for Bin Laden. You can blame them more for 9-11 than the Saudis.




Our government isn't anywhere near as corrupt as that of Mexico's. The U.S. ranks 19 on Transparency Internationals Corruption Perception Index; whereas, Mexico ranks 89, regardless I clearly said "because either they simply can't....".

Thats a piss poor bull**** excuse. We have done this to ourselves and we keep letting it happen, dude. Blaming **** on others does squat. The fact that they continue to cross into the US in ever increasing numbers (what over 12,000,000 in the last couple of years.) Illegals know if they get here they can get lost in the system and at the same time get a permit to drive, work with very few questions asked, their little boys and girls go to school for free and now they are elligable for state aid for some of the best universities around. Illegals are given welfare, food stamps etc. WHO in the flying **** would not want to come over!! Geez, be reasonable lol

The bottom line is we can't afford to notfix Mexico
Really? Even German victims of the holocaust? :roll:

Oh ****...Its too early for Godwin's law of nazi analogies. Perhaps, later on :)
 
“You’re never going to totally seal that border.”

Translation: "We don't have the will to do it."
 
Are we willing to wall off Canada as well to keep terrorists out? Seriously, why shouldn't we fix Mexico?

Why are we responsible for Mexico?

We send money to places like Egypt, etc among others.

Mexico receives $75 million a year from the U.S. in foreign aid:

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/fy2006/CBJAccountsum.pdf

Yes, Egypt! Where, the GSJ (Global Salafi Jihad) started. Their leadership is Egyptian except for Bin Laden. You can blame them more for 9-11 than the Saudis.

I take it you have never heard of Wahhabism. :roll:




Thats a piss poor bull**** excuse. We have done this to ourselves and we keep letting it happen, dude. Blaming **** on others does squat. The fact that they continue to cross into the US in ever increasing numbers (what over 12,000,000 in the last couple of years.) Illegals know if they get here they can get lost in the system and at the same time get a permit to drive, work with very few questions asked, their little boys and girls go to school for free and now they are elligable for state aid for some of the best universities around. Illegals are given welfare, food stamps etc. WHO in the flying **** would not want to come over!! Geez, be reasonable lol

The bottom line is we can't afford to notfix Mexico

A) How have we done this to ourselves?

B) Why is it our repsonsibility to "fix" Mexico?

Oh ****...Its too early for Godwin's law of nazi analogies. Perhaps, later on :)

So the victims of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot et al deserve their governments? Oh and FYI Godwin only applies when making an analogy to the actions of Hitler or Nazi's, I was not making an ananolgy I was offering an example of people not deserving the government which they got.
 
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