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Judge blocks Gulf offshore drilling moratorium

The oil industry at work. It's hard to have effective governance when corporations have more pull these days. I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.

The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.

You know, if our environment collapses we deserve it, but the people behind it will be the last to suffer the consequences.
 
Orion said:
The oil industry at work. It's hard to have effective governance when corporations have more pull these days. I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.

The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.

You know, if our environment collapses we deserve it, but the people behind it will be the last to suffer the consequences.
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Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.

I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.
 
Orion said:
The "spill" (not even an accurate word for it anymore, more like the "gush") isn't even stopped yet and already people want to drill more.
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The fire hadn't even gone out from the Colgan Air disaster last year killing 50 people and people were already wanting to keep flying on planes.

Chill out, chicken little.
 
NolaMan said:
Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.

I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.
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Some people are just anti-business and no amount of rational thought will get to them.

Of course a judge has to be bought off by big oil, it can't be the right thing to do to put more than 80,000 people back to work.

Yo have to wonder how these type of people get through the day.
 
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NolaMan said:
Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.
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Oh please, open your damn eyes. That is how political process works these days. Corporations know how to work all branches of government. If the executive branch isn't listening, they'll just go to the judicial branch or the legislative branch. People are naive if they think that any moratorium against the oil industry will hold. They have the money of entire nations at their disposal and know how to use it.

NolaMan said:
I have posted government reports confirming that the rigs effected by this moratorium have already been reinspected and passed with no problems. Why can't we allow working, recently inspected, rigs that had nothing to do with the deepwater incident to continue operating? There is no good reason.
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There is good reason. A full damage assessment of the BP spill would indicate what the true cost and risk are of off shore drilling and if it's worth it. If the coastline is going to be paying for the spill for the next 50+ years and local economy is going to be in the gutter, then I think that would justify a moratorium; or, in the least, a temporary ban until better disaster measures can be put into place.

I don't care if those rigs pass inspection. All that means is that the technology is up to spec. It doesn't account for human error or recklessness. Who does the inspections? How secure are the inspections? For all we know people are being paid off.

The last word we should be trusting is the word of oil companies. I want to see independent inspections and reviews from NGOs.
 
Mason66 said:
Some people are just anti-business and no amount of rational thought will get to them.

Of course a judge has to be bought off by big oil, it can't be the right thing to do to put more than 80,000 people back to work.

Yo have to wonder how these type of people get through the day.
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Can the rhetoric. I am not anti-business. I'm in favor of sustainable business that doesn't destroy our land and water resources for future generations. I'm in favor of business that can see beyond the current quarterly gains and cares about the people. I'm in favor of business that isn't buying up my elected officials and erroding our democratic way of life.
 
Orion said:
Can the rhetoric. I am not anti-business. I'm in favor of sustainable business that doesn't destroy our land and water resources for future generations. I'm in favor of business that can see beyond the current quarterly gains and cares about the people. I'm in favor of business that isn't buying up my elected officials and erroding our democratic way of life.
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It is absurd that YOU tell HIM to can the rhetoric yet you're saying a federal judge was bought off without a single piece of evidence.

You're a joke.
 
Good to see that somebody is standing up to Barack Obama and his idiocracy requests. There is little danger in Oil Drilling unless the company doing the drilling has poor conditions and unsafe procedures, such as the one that failed.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
It is absurd that YOU tell HIM to can the rhetoric yet you're saying a federal judge was bought off without a single piece of evidence.

You're a joke.
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Quote where I said that a "judge was bought".
 
I have been working BP Thunder Horse and Atlantis since 2001. I say this above all, BP tests, tests, and re-tests until you are begging them to accept the valve. They insist on a comprehensve safey set of rules that are a pain in the ass but break a safety rule and you are shown the door. Prior to BP I have worked on several contracts for Exxon Shell, Kerr McGee, Chevron etc. and BP was the first to come out and read the riot act to everyone on their safety DEMANDS. As far as the ruling, keep this and any body of thought out of issue they know nothing about. Second, why six months you jerk prez? Why not 3 months and two days? Why not 4 months and one week? Is it because your useless brain does not care about working Americans while you continue to extend unemployment benefits to bums too lazy to seek work? Why should they look for work when they can count on you for free cash forever? This was one "ACCIDENT"......ONE! I feel the response from the company and the Coast Guard should have been many times quicker but I don't know all the logistics so unlike may treehuggers I'll reserve jugement until all the facts are in. Thank you judge, now lets all get back to work and vote against this Muslim traitor's folllowers this coming November! Welcome to TeaParty.org
 
What I find hilarious is that the libs cry, "INSPECT INSPECT INSPECT!!" When we say, well we did reinspect them all and they're all in compliance and found to be safe, then they yell, "But that doesn't insure they're safe, that doesn't remove the human error or wrecklessness."

No, and no amount of praying will remove the liberal mindset from the liberal.

Sure thing Orion, from your post:

Unless you have some evidence of a buy off of the judge, then your post is nothing but meaningless speculation. Post your evidence, or admit you have none.

Oh please, open your damn eyes. That is how political process works these days.
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You say a judge is bought off and then try to crawfish out when evidence is demanded. Typical lib.
 
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Orion said:
Oh please, open your damn eyes. That is how political process works these days. Corporations know how to work all branches of government. If the executive branch isn't listening, they'll just go to the judicial branch or the legislative branch. People are naive if they think that any moratorium against the oil industry will hold. They have the money of entire nations at their disposal and know how to use it.
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So you have no evidence? That is what I figured.
There is good reason. A full damage assessment of the BP spill would indicate what the true cost and risk are of off shore drilling and if it's worth it. If the coastline is going to be paying for the spill for the next 50+ years and local economy is going to be in the gutter, then I think that would justify a moratorium; or, in the least, a temporary ban until better disaster measures can be put into place.
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First of all, not all drilling was covered under the moratorium.. it was the deepwater rigs, which were all reinspected and passed all safetly measures... what is the problem with allowing a safe, working rig to drill?

I don't care if those rigs pass inspection. All that means is that the technology is up to spec. It doesn't account for human error or recklessness. Who does the inspections? How secure are the inspections? For all we know people are being paid off.
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Umm, the Department of the Interior does the inspections... they are part of the Executive Branch of government..

The last word we should be trusting is the word of oil companies. I want to see independent inspections and reviews from NGOs.
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The Executive Branch of the United States government is now incapable of conducting a reliable inspection?
 
Orion said:
Quote where I said that a "judge was bought".
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In post #26 you state:
I wonder what extras this judge got for his ruling.
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What else did you mean from this statement if not that the judge was effectively "bought off"?
 
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dontworrybehappy said:
What I find hilarious is that the libs cry, "INSPECT INSPECT INSPECT!!" When we say, well we did reinspect them all and they're all in compliance and found to be safe, then they yell, "But that doesn't insure they're safe, that doesn't remove the human error or wrecklessness."
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What, truthfully, would it hurt to reinspect?
 
Mason66 said:
But the administration is going to appeal the ruling and tie it up in courts for a long time while the people have no jobs.
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None of the stories have much information, but from what I gather, I believe it's a preliminary injunction, which means that the rigs are allowed to drill until and unless a higher court vacates the injunction.

danarhea said:
I would like to ask a couple of questions here.

1) These offshore drilling spots are known as leases. Does that mean BP owns them? No, it doesn't.

2) Are the leases owned by the Federal government?

3) If the leases are owned by the Federal government, then wouldn't telling the owner of the leases whether or not the leases are allowed to be drilled constitute acting against the interests of the owner of the property?

4) Finally, isn't it Republicans who have made it a huge point that ordering the owner of a property to do something he doesn't want to do with it is anti American?

I am so confused here. :mrgreen:
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Again, I haven't seen the papers, but I would imagine that the argument is something along the lines that the gov. does not have enough evidence to make this decision, which renders the moratorium a taking of property without due process in violation of the agreements that were signed.

edit: It looks like it also involves administrative law.


Orion said:
Oh please, open your damn eyes. That is how political process works these days. Corporations know how to work all branches of government. If the executive branch isn't listening, they'll just go to the judicial branch or the legislative branch. People are naive if they think that any moratorium against the oil industry will hold. They have the money of entire nations at their disposal and know how to use it.
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What makes you think that this judge was in any way influenced by the oil industry?

Every day, judges around the country hand down decisions that cost or save corporations billions of dollars. Unless you think every one of those judges is on the take, I don't see why we should assume there is any undue influence here. I very much doubt that this is anything close to the biggest case that Feldman has heard in his 27 years on the bench.
 
RightinNYC said:
None of the stories have much information, but from what I gather, I believe it's a preliminary injunction, which means that the rigs are allowed to drill until and unless a higher court vacates the injunction.
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Correct, that is what I saw as well. The rigs should be able to resume operations immediately.
 
RightinNYC said:
None of the stories have much information, but from what I gather, I believe it's a preliminary injunction, which means that the rigs are allowed to drill until and unless a higher court vacates the injunction.



Again, I haven't seen the papers, but I would imagine that the argument is something along the lines that the gov. does not have enough evidence to make this decision, which renders the moratorium a taking of property without due process in violation of the agreements that were signed.

edit: It looks like it also involves administrative law.




What makes you think that this judge was in any way influenced by the oil industry?

Every day, judges around the country hand down decisions that cost or save corporations billions of dollars. Unless you think every one of those judges is on the take, I don't see why we should assume there is any undue influence here. I very much doubt that this is anything close to the biggest case that Feldman has heard in his 27 years on the bench.
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Responding to the part of the post that I bolded. I don't know about Federal law, but in Texas, you can take a property back under the argument "Owner wants possession".
 
Hoplite said:
I would have liked to have seen a permanent stoppage that would be lifted on a per-rig basis if the owners of a rig could demonstrate that adequate safety measures were in place and proper procedures were being followed. If you cant show that you are operating your rig safely, the rig doesn't get turned on.
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I agree, the moratorium felt like overkill, even for only 6 months.

I guess with all the corruption and ineptitude in the MMS, they wanted a complete overall of the checks and balances before letting the drilling continue. If another rig ran into problems, it would be Obama's Katrina.

Get MMS in line, get the new regulators in place, and let the safe rigs go back to work.
 
Judge lifts offshore drilling ban as 'overbearing'  | ajc.com

"Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or funds that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig that blew up."

hmm.... seems like money talking and people walking again..
 
WhyteRash said:
Judge lifts offshore drilling ban as 'overbearing' *| ajc.com

"Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or funds that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig that blew up."

hmm.... seems like money talking and people walking again..
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People's JOBS do matter - I thought that was a huge part of this issue with BP - that people have been oiled out of a JOB.
 
WhyteRash said:
Judge lifts offshore drilling ban as 'overbearing' *| ajc.com

"Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or funds that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig that blew up."

hmm.... seems like money talking and people walking again..
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My 401k has some index funds, which means I own (indirectly) stock in petroleum companies. Does this mean I could not or would not be fair?
 
WhyteRash said:
Judge lifts offshore drilling ban as 'overbearing' *| ajc.com

"Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or funds that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig that blew up."

hmm.... seems like money talking and people walking again..
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This doesn't really make much sense if you think about it. What do we know? Back in 2008, this guy had a few thousand dollars in a handful of oil company stocks. You're assuming that he still owns those stocks, even though the very next line in your article indicates he may have sold some or all of them. His decision on this issue will have a minuscule effect on the overall value of those stocks. Unless you think he's throwing away his reputation and career for what will amount to (at best) a few hundred dollars, it doesn't make much sense.
 
Inspections? Inspect all you want. That isn't the problem. An inspection isn't going to prevent anything, besides inspections are largely paperwork. The inspector checks documentation. The operator certifies that the proper procedures or equipment checks/certification have been followed and/or performed and that they are in compliance.

The problem has been that no one knows how to stop what has already happened. If BP or anyone else had the know-how to stop the 'leak', this would have been yesterday's news.

All the experts from around the world and no one knows how to cap this well, at this depth. Experts at this sort of thing believe that the relief well, currently being drilled, will do that. Problem is, it's taking so long to drill. Perhaps a relief well should be required to be drilled at the same time as the main well, until someone comes up with a better solution. To just cross your fingers and hope it doesn't happen again isn't a very big confidence booster.

The moratorium should stay in effect until someone can demonstrate that they can contain or control any future such disaster quickly and efficiently.

Another point, just because President Obama declared a 6 month moratorium doesn't mean he couldn't lift it sooner if someone can demonstrate a way to handle another such situation with better results than this one.
 
RightinNYC said:
This doesn't really make much sense if you think about it. What do we know? Back in 2008, this guy had a few thousand dollars in a handful of oil company stocks. You're assuming that he still owns those stocks, even though the very next line in your article indicates he may have sold some or all of them. His decision on this issue will have a minuscule effect on the overall value of those stocks. Unless you think he's throwing away his reputation and career for what will amount to (at best) a few hundred dollars, it doesn't make much sense.
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Plus, it's highly probable that he doesn't even manage his own portfolio and that the stocks were picked by his financial manager and not himself. :shrug:
 
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