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After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overturn

Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
And gay citizens want to impose their morals that their is nothing wrong with their behavior and that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality. They want to impose that the state that both they and the heterosexuals live in must grant them equal marital status to a heterosexual married couple.
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If there was a movement to make state recognition of hetero sexual marriage illegal you would have an argument.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Deuce said:
What? You don't think basic civil rights of a minority should be decided with a 50.1% vote from the majority? That's outrageous I tell you!
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Yes, we obviously need politicians and judges to tell us right from wrong. One man, one vote? NO thank you sir! Ironically these are the same people complaining about nanny government out the other side of their mouths.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Deuce said:
You are literally arguing semantics with this "positive declaration" thing. It may not have said "no gays can marry" but that's exactly what the effect was and that's exactly what the intent was.
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It's not the same. If you claim that gays are being denied the right to marry, then you pre-suppose a right which doesn't exist. Gay marriage has never, ever, ever been accepted by any society anywhere ... except for a tiny percentage of notable exceptions. This isn't about love between two men IMNSHO. It's about the fact that a small percentage of the population which doesn't know what to do with a johnson is trying to inflict their perverse lifestyle on the rest of society.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
And gay citizens want to impose their morals that their is nothing wrong with their behavior and that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality. They want to impose that the state that both they and the heterosexuals live in must grant them equal marital status to a heterosexual married couple.
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But nothing is wrong with their morals.

Most that believe that, base their beliefs on cherry-picking lines of scripture from a western mythology. They filtered these lines through their own fears and insecurities and it comes out as homophobia-- fear-based bigotry of homosexuals.

The rest that don't yet accept homosexuality as a hard-wired personality trait, are just "old fashioned" and don't really know any homosexuals. They will soon die (relatively soon) and the next generation will be more enlightened. And the generation after that even more so.

Twenty years from now, we'll look back on Prop 8 the same way we look back on segregation--backwards thinking.

Same-sex attraction is as natural as being left-handed. Legislating against it is immoral. Period.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
It's not the same. If you claim that gays are being denied the right to marry, then you pre-suppose a right which doesn't exist. Gay marriage has never, ever, ever been accepted by any society anywhere ... except for a tiny percentage of notable exceptions. This isn't about love between two men IMNSHO. It's about the fact that a small percentage of the population which doesn't know what to do with a johnson is trying to inflict their perverse lifestyle on the rest of society.
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Except that the lifting the ban on gay marriage doesn't come with a mandate that you don't have to get gay married. That would be the only way anything were inflicted upon you. You want to sit here and bitch and moan about something being inflicted on you yet, at the same time, you want to sit here and discuss it ad naseum under your own free will.

But sure...if you want to go to your wife and say, "Honey, I think our marriage is going to be devalued if the homos down the street are married...my marriage to you is going to mean a little less because I know those guys are doing the dirty monkey and that's all I think about when I think of our marriage now"...well you go right ahead. I am sure that's gonna make her feel like she's married to a real man there. :lol:
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

jallman said:
I am sure that's gonna make her feel like she's married to a real man there. :lol:
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Considering the alternatives ...

8bff1fcad6e13fd8af05f75e483e8c20.jpg
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Considering the alternatives ...

8bff1fcad6e13fd8af05f75e483e8c20.jpg
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I know....this is so much more attractive....:roll:

redneck_overalls.jpg
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
It's not the same. If you claim that gays are being denied the right to marry, then you pre-suppose a right which doesn't exist. Gay marriage has never, ever, ever been accepted by any society anywhere ... except for a tiny percentage of notable exceptions. This isn't about love between two men IMNSHO. It's about the fact that a small percentage of the population which doesn't know what to do with a johnson is trying to inflict their perverse lifestyle on the rest of society.
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Hahahahahah ok chief. Marriage isn't about love? Those "perverse" gays don't have sex already, they need this marriage thing to do that! :rofl You think homosexuality is an abomination against God or whatever. We get it. Since we're using some book you read as a basis for laws now, can we do Sharia law too? Maybe bring back stoning, there's bits about that in both your book and theirs!

Can you tell me on which day you decided to be attracted to women?

Oh, and who the **** do you think you are to tell two people that their desire for marriage isn't about love?
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Deuce said:
Hahahahahah ok chief. Marriage isn't about love? Those "perverse" gays don't have sex already, they need this marriage thing to do that! :rofl You think homosexuality is an abomination against God or whatever. We get it.
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Obviously not. You can't conceive of someone who is anti-GM on the basis of anything other than the Bible. You know nothing about me yet don't hesitate to pigeonhole me with your prejudiced ideas.

Since we're using some book you read as a basis for laws now, can we do Sharia law too? Maybe bring back stoning, there's bits about that in both your book and theirs!

Can you tell me on which day you decided to be attracted to women?

Oh, and who the **** do you think you are to tell two people that their desire for marriage isn't about love?
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Who's stopping two men from loving each other? Certainly not me. But don't try to force me to call it a marriage, because it isn't one.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Obviously not. You can't conceive of someone who is anti-GM on the basis of anything other than the Bible. You know nothing about me yet don't hesitate to pigeonhole me with your prejudiced ideas.
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OK, so you are against gay marriage without even the excuse of your religion to fall back on. We get that.

Who's stopping two men from loving each other? Certainly not me. But don't try to force me to call it a marriage, because it isn't one.
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You don't have to call it anything. No one is gonna come through and shock you with a taser every time you say marriage and don't make a point of acknowledging homos with it. No one really gives a flying rat's ass what you personally define marriage as. The only thing anyone cares about here is what the law says and how it treats citizens.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Who's stopping two men from loving each other? Certainly not me. But don't try to force me to call it a marriage, because it isn't one.
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You keep falling back to this same tired comment. And as has been pointed out to you before, no one is forcing you to call it anything. You can call it a perversion of nature for all we care, as long as the law calls it legally recognized.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Redress said:
You keep falling back to this same tired comment. And as has been pointed out to you before, no one is forcing you to call it anything. You can call it a perversion of nature for all we care, as long as the law calls it legally recognized.
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Nobody is stopping two men from loving each other, or two women, or a cow and a pig for that matter. But when you start rewriting dictionaries and textbooks and lawbooks, then yes you are forcing society to recognize it and accept it. The human body is designed in a precise way. A poop chute shouldn't be treated like Playland At The Beach. God and religion have nothing to do with it. Just take a look at any medical textbook under sexually transmitted diseases.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Nobody is stopping two men from loving each other, or two women, or a cow and a pig for that matter. But when you start rewriting dictionaries and textbooks and lawbooks, then yes you are forcing society to recognize it and accept it. The human body is designed in a precise way. A poop chute shouldn't be treated like Playland At The Beach. God and religion have nothing to do with it. Just take a look at any medical textbook under sexually transmitted diseases.
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Actually, the human body is not designed. It evolved. You need to learn how evolution works.

Marriage is a great method to reduce the transmission of STDs.

Why is it that people against gay marriage, or gays in the military, are always so fixated on anal sex? Can some one please answer that for me?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Nobody is stopping two men from loving each other, or two women, or a cow and a pig for that matter. But when you start rewriting dictionaries and textbooks and lawbooks, then yes you are forcing society to recognize it and accept it. The human body is designed in a precise way. A poop chute shouldn't be treated like Playland At The Beach. God and religion have nothing to do with it. Just take a look at any medical textbook under sexually transmitted diseases.
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God and religion have everything to do with it. Because without it, then we must recognize that what people do with their poop chute isn't any of your damned business and you have no right restricting their right to contract because of it. Societies and dictionary meanings of words change...often. That's why there isn't an infinitely stable language (or religion for that matter). Humankind continues to evolve, our knowledge, our technology, even our society keeps changing. Humanity gets nowhere through stagnation, it's slow death. Things used to be illegal that are now legal and vice-versa. So that historical argument doesn't cut it, especially when the historical argument is at odds with the rights and liberties of the individual. When we reach new areas where we can recognize the wrongs of the past, we can begin to address and fix those wrongs. You cannot continually infringe on right to contract because you don't like the color of the jib of those entering the contract. They are free to forge that contract as they wish, as is their right. Learn to mind your own business.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

StevenA59 said:
Nobody is stopping two men from loving each other, or two women, or a cow and a pig for that matter. But when you start rewriting dictionaries and textbooks and lawbooks, then yes you are forcing society to recognize it and accept it. The human body is designed in a precise way. A poop chute shouldn't be treated like Playland At The Beach. God and religion have nothing to do with it. Just take a look at any medical textbook under sexually transmitted diseases.
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Weak attempt to rationalize a personal prejudice. Marriage promotes monogamy. Monogamy reduces transmission. You're supporting a belief based on "reasoning" that directly contradicts it.

Redress said:
Actually, the human body is not designed. It evolved. You need to learn how evolution works.

Marriage is a great method to reduce the transmission of STDs.

Why is it that people against gay marriage, or gays in the military, are always so fixated on anal sex? Can some one please answer that for me?
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They also use the phrase "shoved down our throats" more often than is comfortable. Hmmm.
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

digsbe said:
Yes, and Californian's voted to prevent gay marriage. What is going on now is a court battle saying "well, it's really not legal in the first place to ban gay marriage." They are trying to overturn a decision made by voters because those who wanted gay marriage didn't get their way. It's legislating from the bench and it will be a defeat for democracy and freedom if prop 8 gets overturned. People can support gay marriage, but what is going on in the court is truly shameful.
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Our Constitution was decided democratically. That is why we are a Constitutional Democracy, not a strict Democracy. The will of the majority has limits.

Also, the Supreme Court is well within its power in judicial review.

"The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority..."

I can agree that some cases go to far, but judicial review in and of itself is a responsibility of the Court.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Deuce said:
Counterpoint:
YouTube - Proposition 8 Commercial
Marriage without babies? The children couldn't possibly understand! They're too stupid and always will be!

The Yes-on-8 ads make my ****ing stomach turn.
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lots of straight couples I know have been married yet never have children

should we call the Spanish Inquisition?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

TurtleDude said:
lots of straight couples I know have been married yet never have children

should we call the Spanish Inquisition?
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If you follow the "logic" of the anti-SSM folks, such couples should have their marriage annuled by force of government. That's exactly what they proposed of the ~18,000 same-sex marriages licenses that were issued in California.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Redress said:
Actually, the human body is not designed. It evolved. You need to learn how evolution works.
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LOL Are you claiming homosexuality is part of evolution?

Look its been proven that natural procreation is designed exclusively for heterosexual sex. Its not a disputable fact. Now if you wish to equate someone getting their jollies from another hole then you will need to provide something more to change how a society views marriage more than "they love each other"

You can't keep blaming old people and religion forever.

Can you explain why the far left is so financial about calling it marriage? Why can't civil unions work if the privileges are the same?

Marriage is a great method to reduce the transmission of STDs.
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You keep saying this. What study are you citing? Wouldn't committed relationships be a better example?

Why is it that people against gay marriage, or gays in the military, are always so fixated on anal sex? Can some one please answer that for me?
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Military is usually equated with men so male homosexual sex would naturally be the example. This really elludes you?
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

texmaster said:
LOL Are you claiming homosexuality is part of evolution?
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Am I? Do you see me making that claim anywhere? Yes, there are mechanisms within evolution which could account for homosexuality, but could and did are two different things.

Look its been proven that natural procreation is designed exclusively for heterosexual sex. Its not a disputable fact. Now if you wish to equate someone getting their jollies from another hole then you will need to provide something more to change how a society views marriage more than "they love each other"
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Actually, that is not proven at all. Design requires some one doing the designing. Evolution does not design anything. Learn about evolution before making wild "proven" claims that are not all all proven, or even accurate.

And once again, we see the anti-GM crowd fixated on anal sex. Once again, I ask...can some one explain that fixation to me? It's not like it is the only type of sex gays engage in, or even the most common.

You can't keep blaming old people and religion forever.
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I am not blaming any one for anything.

Can you explain why the far left is so financial about calling it marriage? Why can't civil unions work if the privileges are the same?
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If the privileges are the same, then it is effectively marriage. Why are you so scared to call it would it would be then?



You keep saying this. What study are you citing? Wouldn't committed relationships be a better example?
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Monogamous relationships. What is the best way to promote monogamy? Marriage.

Military is usually equated with men so male homosexual sex would naturally be the example. This really elludes you?
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A significant portion of the military is women. This thread is about gay marriage not the military. Many gay men do not engage in anal sex. Your argument fails on three levels.

Post edited because scrolling > me.
 
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Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

TurtleDude said:
lots of straight couples I know have been married yet never have children

should we call the Spanish Inquisition?
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Yes, if you think that the anti-GM lawyer is correct. After all, he did directly say that Gay Marriage shouldn't be allowed because marriage is for making babies.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

obvious Child said:
Yes, if you think that the anti-GM lawyer is correct. After all, he did directly say that Gay Marriage shouldn't be allowed because marriage is for making babies.
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Fortunately, the judge apparently saw through that argument and its ridiculous conclusion, at least based on the questions.

My wife and I are about to celebrate our 28th wedding anniversary. Childless by choice. Guess if the bigots have their way, our marriage would be annulled. As well as many older couples who get married after menopause.
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

obvious Child said:
Yes, if you think that the anti-GM lawyer is correct. After all, he did directly say that Gay Marriage shouldn't be allowed because marriage is for making babies.
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Wouldn't it be hilarious if the judge ruled that any marriage that could not result in children was null and void?
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Redress said:
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the judge ruled that any marriage that could not result in children was null and void?
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QUIET Redress!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't give them any ideas!
 
Re: After Final Arguments in Prop. 8 Trial, Maggie Gallagher Expects Judge will Overt

Redress said:
Am I? Do you see me making that claim anywhere? Yes, there are mechanisms within evolution which could account for homosexuality, but could and did are two different things.
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Ok good.

Actually, that is not proven at all.
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So what other natral way other than heterosexual sex can a woman become pregnant? Honestly I can't believe you are denying this.

Design requires some one doing the designing. Evolution does not design anything. Learn about evolution before making wild "proven" claims that are not all all proven, or even accurate.
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Read whom you are debating. I never said "design"

And once again, we see the anti-GM crowd fixated on anal sex. Once again, I ask...can some one explain that fixation to me? It's not like it is the only type of sex gays engage in, or even the most common.
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You've already asked that and its been answered. And pray tell why does it matter?

I am not blaming any one for anything.
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You've never claimed the votes have been 0-31 because of old people or religion? Are you sure about that?

If the privileges are the same, then it is effectively marriage. Why are you so scared to call it would it would be then?
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Its not a matter of fear. We simply need more than "they love each other" before changing a law that has been a basis in society for hundreds of years.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Monogamous relationships. What is the best way to promote monogamy? Marriage.
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That doesn't answer my question. Where did you get your facts that marriage slows down STD growth instead of simple committed relationships?

A significant portion of the military is women.
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Now now Redress. Let's not be coy here.

Total number of women in DOD forces2 201,575 14.6%.

Lets not pretend they are not still in the extreme minority when it comes to military service.

This thread is about gay marriage not the military. Many gay men do not engage in anal sex. Your argument fails on three levels.
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You made the mistake of asking why anal sex is brought up when discussing gays in the military. I've given you the reason. The vast majority of military personell are men. This isn't hard.
 
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