• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mexico teen killed by US Border Patrol, anger high

hazlnut said:
I didn't realize they had already concluded the use of lethal force review and ruled the shooting justified. Do you have link for that?
Click to expand...


Police enforce social order through the legitimized use of force. Use of force describes the "amount of effort required by police to compel compliance by an unwilling subject" [1]. The levels, or continuum, of force police use include basic verbal and physical restraint, less-lethal force and lethal force.
The amount of force police use should be the minimum amount needed to eliminate the threat presented, thereby minimizing the risk and severity of any injury that may occur.
Police should also:
Ensure that those injured receive medical aid.
Ensure that the family of any injured person is notified.
Officers receive guidance from their individual agencies, but no universal set of rules governs when officers should use force and how much.
The level of force an officer uses will vary based on the situation. Because of this variation, guidelines for the use of force are based on many factors, including:
The police department's experience.
Federal and state mandates.
Available law enforcement technologies.
The complex relationships that may exist between the police and citizens in a given jurisdiction.
Excessive use of force is rare [2].
The frequency of police use of force events that may be defined as justified or excessive is difficult to estimate [3].

Police Use of Force | National Institute of Justice
Click to expand...


I suspect they would be cleared of any excessive use of force in this.


j-mac
 
Wow, those were some pretty ****ing stupid kids.

People keep saying, "He was only 15!". How is that really relevant? A threat is a threat. And a 15 yr is just as capable of killing someone as an 18 yr old is.
 
rivrrat said:
Wow, those were some pretty ****ing stupid kids.

People keep saying, "He was only 15!". How is that really relevant? A threat is a threat. And a 15 yr is just as capable of killing someone as an 18 yr old is.
Click to expand...




I bet he wont be throwing rocks at border patrol again. oh wait. :ssst:
 
ludahai said:
That is what we were trained to do in the Coast Guard...
Click to expand...

I think any branch of the military they trian you to aim center mass.
 
Kid was a dumb ass. You don't throw rocks at police.
 
Your Star said:
Ever heard of less than lethal?
Click to expand...

Yep. However a tazer has limited range so may not have been useful in this situation. The guy was a bike cop so they are not likely carrying a shotgun so no bean bags. Tear Gas to my understanding is not standard issue. A baton or asp would again, like the tazer, require close range. Ditto for pepper spray.

The kid made his bed, he's got to sleep in it.

sparks said:
Why not shoot him with a non-lethal projectile, as the person above mentioned? Or in the leg, as opposed to the head? It would send the same message, without an unnecessary death.
Click to expand...

Shooting to wound is against the rules for Law Enforcement in the U.S. and could them not only fired but I believe possibly jailed.

Jetboogieman said:
OH btw... any warning shots fired?
Click to expand...

Warning Shots are against protocol and again could have gotten the officer into major trouble.

Also, while yes "Stoning" as its commonly known does typically have a defenseless target. That said, stones can still kill with a hit to the head on a singular throw. A lot of it would depend on the size. Is he chucking jagged baseball sized stones? Golf ball sized? Pepples? Softball sized? etc. I'd agree with people thinking it was excessive if he was having gravel sized pebbles that are no bigger than my finger nail thrown at him. However I'd have unquestionably shot the guy too if they were hurling multiple baseball sized jagged stones at my head in that situation.
 
Last edited:
I believe in Texas...When serious bodly injury can occur, one may use deadly force. A simple srcewdriver, a scissor, a pointed stick...and yeah, a rock. Things that are potentially deadly

Rocks equate to deadly force and justifies a lethal response. Period
 
Jetboogieman said:
I just wanna clear something up when it comes to physically stoning someone.

stoningDM_468x406.jpg


Sure rocks can kill... but not even a close comparison. Unless you're suggesting the 15 year old kid buried a cop in the sand...

So please, let go of the "stoning by execution nonsense.
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd remind you. We're not talking about throwing pebbles, here.
 
hazlnut said:
I hope they do.

Keep us posted.
Click to expand...


And let's hope they are cleared, and this isn't turned politically motivated "made an example" situation. Because if this Agent is found in the wrong for anything short of gross misconduct... that endangers all Agents.
 
hazlnut said:
SCOTUS will likely have the finally say on that. (the AZ law)
Click to expand...

Shame really, as there is no reason to waste time or money on what is obviously a perfectly acceptable and constitutional law.
 
MrVicchio said:
And let's hope they are cleared, and this isn't turned politically motivated "made an example" situation. Because if this Agent is found in the wrong for anything short of gross misconduct... that endangers all Agents.
Click to expand...

I agree.

As does gross misconduct.
 
MrVicchio said:
Shame really, as there is no reason to waste time or money on what is obviously a perfectly acceptable and constitutional law.
Click to expand...

The ingenious system of checks and balances outlined in our constitution is NEVER a waste of time or money.

And where did you study constitutional law??:roll::roll:
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I agree with you, here - he *knew* it was a rock (so I gather from the article) - so why shoot in response? I think shots shoudl be reserved for more dire situations. He was wrong.

However. . .(now, note - I do understand the mother's just heartbroken)


Ironic and hypocritical how they'll support breaking laws - and then demand that other laws be applied.

Can't have it both ways - they either support people being allowed ot break our laws or their support our laws being applied like they're written!
Click to expand...

I see this all the time here in Mexico. The mother cries after her son is killed because of her failure to teach her son to respect the law and other people. 100% her fault.

I will give you an example.

My ex-girlfriends cousin found out his girlfriend went out with another guy, so what does he do? He takes a gun to the other guys house. He confronts the guy with the gun but as he is squeezing the trigger, the other guy also had his gun and got a shot off and both of them died on the spot. 2 men dead over this woman.

My girlfriends family, the guys mother and sisters were screaming and crying at the wake, and all I could think was "It is a little late for all this emotion. A little bit of teaching the right thing would have saved his life" It all seemed fake to me.
 
Last edited:
hazlnut said:
SCOTUS will likely have the finally say on that. (the AZ law)
Click to expand...


Well, if the SCOTUS overturns the AZ law, it would likely have to overturn the US Code as well....very unlikely.


j-mac
 
12 pages and only one poster brought this up.

It is not relevant what his age was.

The Border Officer is not going to card the kid(s) to see if they are of age.

A group of people were attacking the officers and they had to stop it.

If you think a criminal can't carry more than one form of weapon you don't live in reality.

There has been nothing said about the other people that were with him. Did they have more lethal weapons? If it was in a tunnel, there was limited room and probably pretty dark. How would the officer know the guy was 15 and who would expect a 15 year old to be attacking Border Officers?

Like I said before, 100% the mothers fault.
 
hazlnut said:
The ingenious system of checks and balances outlined in our constitution is NEVER a waste of time or money.

And where did you study constitutional law??:roll::roll:
Click to expand...

Where is the law unconstitutional? How does the law Arizona passed in anyway rise to the level of SCOTUS review? Can you give some examples?
 
j-mac said:
Well, if the SCOTUS overturns the AZ law, it would likely have to overturn the US Code as well....very unlikely.


j-mac
Click to expand...

HEY! Where did YOU study Constitutional Law at eh? Haz is an expert man, he knows! HE KNOWS!!!

(And he fails to give any examples or reasons, but he KNOWS MAN)
 
MrVicchio said:
HEY! Where did YOU study Constitutional Law at eh? Haz is an expert man, he knows! HE KNOWS!!!

(And he fails to give any examples or reasons, but he KNOWS MAN)
Click to expand...


I know, there are alot of internet experts out there. But I am just sayin' The AZ law is modeled on and even uses express language of the US Code. Sooooooo.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I know, there are alot of internet experts out there. But I am just sayin' The AZ law is modeled on and even uses express language of the US Code. Sooooooo.


j-mac
Click to expand...

Sooooooooo......... the lefties don't like it, it might cut back on their future voter base.

Sooooooooo......... it must be unconstitutional.
 
Moderator's Warning:
This is not a thread about the Arizona Immigration Law. Get back on topic people
 
Mason66 said:
I see this all the time here in Mexico. The mother cries after her son is killed because of her failure to teach her son to respect the law and other people. 100% her fault.

I will give you an example.

My ex-girlfriends cousin found out his girlfriend went out with another guy, so what does he do? He takes a gun to the other guys house. He confronts the guy with the gun but as he is squeezing the trigger, the other guy also had his gun and got a shot off and both of them died on the spot. 2 men dead over this woman.

My girlfriends family, the guys mother and sisters were screaming and crying at the wake, and all I could think was "It is a little late for all this emotion. A little bit of teaching the right thing would have saved his life" It all seemed fake to me.
Click to expand...

While I see hypocrisy in how they value and respect our own laws. I don't feel it was under her control at all - there was nothing she could have done to prevent it. Absolutely not her fault.

Regardless of what country you live in, how much money you make or what language you speak or even how strict you are one fact remains constant - children are children and will do what they damn well please.

Whether she gave permission for the boy to go see his brother or not is beside the point - you can't keep your children as prisoner's in your own home to avoid any chance that they might stir the pot while they're out of your sight.

The cop was way out of line. The boys could have been punished - and quite alive to learn his lesson. This entire situation should never have happened like this and things will just get worse, not better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom