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Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

megaprogman said:
Maybe its me, using the flag as a proxy for the country seems like those who buy $3 support the troops magnets to put on their car.

In both cases, nothing positive is being accomplished as there is no action behind either.
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People with "I support the troop" stickers and such, who never do anything to actually support the troops annoy me no end.
 
texmaster said:
Its sad you ignore the history of the flag, why it was created, what battles it was flown over to distinguish ourselves from other nations and the tradition of respect its held.

But you just ignore all of that so you won't ever understand. And doing "concrete" work is good but it doesn't fill the hole in your understanding of the flag or your disrepect for its meaning no matter how many hours you put in.
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So when the government ignores what the flag was originally designed for and performs the same actions as the government that oppressed the people before them they have lost understanding of what the flag represents. Buring the flag serves to remind the government of what they are doing to oppress the people and ignoring what the flag has stood for.
 
texmaster said:
Its sad you ignore the history of the flag, why it was created, what battles it was flown over to distinguish ourselves from other nations and the tradition of respect its held.

But you just ignore all of that so you won't ever understand. And doing "concrete" work is good but it doesn't fill the hole in your understanding of the flag or your disrepect for its meaning no matter how many hours you put in.
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The only ignorance here is yours towards what I know. Just because I believe differently than you does not mean I don't have the same facts, and probably more than you. What is sad is that you think flying a flag in your yard really means something. Actions mean something.
 
The_Patriot said:
How much intrinsic value does the FRN have? None... so I'll gladly burn the toilet paper they call money all because it's printed under government law.
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Okay.... Then I tell you what....

You want to protest your government in the coooolest way possible?

Go to the bank, withdrawl ALL of your funds, savings, checking, mutual funds, stocks, sell your car, sell your house. Get EVERYTHING in Cash.

Then, take some of that money and go get yourself a small 1 galon gas container.... buy a gallon of gas and a lighter or bum some matches from the Gas stations (although I think they respect their government (ie money) too much to give it matches away now).

Then, take the money and stack it up in a big sacrificial pyramid. Pour gasoline in a perimeter on the base of the pyramid. Light yourself a match and throw it at the gasoline soaked bills at the base of the Pyramid.




That will show those mother ****ers in Washington who the boss is.
 
The_Patriot said:
So when the government ignores what the flag was originally designed for and performs the same actions as the government that oppressed the people before them they have lost understanding of what the flag represents.
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That is always a matter of opinion.

Buring the flag serves to remind the government of what they are doing to oppress the people and ignoring what the flag has stood for.
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Burning the flag is a sign of disprespect. If politicans are the reason for your ire, burn their pictures.
 
Caine said:
Okay.... Then I tell you what....

You want to protest your government in the coooolest way possible?

Go to the bank, withdrawl ALL of your funds, savings, checking, mutual funds, stocks, sell your car, sell your house. Get EVERYTHING in Cash.

Then, take some of that money and go get yourself a small 1 galon gas container.... buy a gallon of gas and a lighter or bum some matches from the Gas stations (although I think they respect their government (ie money) too much to give it matches away now).

Then, take the money and stack it up in a big sacrificial pyramid. Pour gasoline in a perimeter on the base of the pyramid. Light yourself a match and throw it at the gasoline soaked bills at the base of the Pyramid.




That will show those mother ****ers in Washington who the boss is.
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Hyperbole, how cute and immature. When you can form a coherent argument let me know, so we can properly debate like gentlemen. Until then I recommend you pay attention to what learned people have to say regarding the matter.
 
Redress said:
The only ignorance here is yours towards what I know.
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I can only go by your own words.

[quoteJust because I believe differently than you does not mean I don't have the same facts, and probably more than you. What is sad is that you think flying a flag in your yard really means something. Actions mean something.[/QUOTE]

Words also mean something. Burning a long standing symbol of this country means something.

But sadly as you have demonstrated, you will never understand that.
 
megaprogman said:
Maybe its me, using the flag as a proxy for the country seems like those who buy $3 support the troops magnets to put on their car.

In both cases, nothing positive is being accomplished as there is no action behind either.
Click to expand...

Actually, proceeds from the sale of most of those magnets you speak of goes to charities that help the family members left behind from fallen soldiers.

Not that you would care about any of that nonsense right?
 
The_Patriot said:
Hyperbole, how cute and immature. When you can form a coherent argument let me know, so we can properly debate like gentlemen. Until then I recommend you pay attention to what learned people have to say regarding the matter.
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serious-cat.jpg
 
Caine said:
Actually, proceeds from the sale of most of those magnets you speak of goes to charities that help the family members left behind from fallen soldiers.

Not that you would care about any of that nonsense right?
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I care about the charity part because that is more than just words and symbols. But if a person were to donate directly, the charity would get more money.
 
texmaster said:
I can only go by your own words.
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Which have demonstrated just as much knowledge of the flag and it's history as yours(hint: niether of us has shown any real knowledge from just the posts in this thread).


Words also mean something. Burning a long standing symbol of this country means something.

But sadly as you have demonstrated, you will never understand that.
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You can of course show where I said it had no meaning. Feel free, I am waiting.
 
The_Patriot said:
Hyperbole, how cute and immature. When you can form a coherent argument let me know, so we can properly debate like gentlemen. Until then I recommend you pay attention to what learned people have to say regarding the matter.
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Ooh... Excuse me sir.

Shall I get you another glass of Merlot? Perhaps a Cigar?

Im sorry, but I hardly call claiming the Flag is a symbol of the government because the government made it as a solid argument when arguing the symbolism of a Flag. Its just beyond silly, You can try to sound like some sort of debate "snob" but I shall still fail to take anyone who makes such a petty argument seriously.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Stay with the topic please. Let's limit the insults, baiting and photo shopped images please.
 
megaprogman said:
I care about the charity part because that is more than just words and symbols. But if a person were to donate directly, the charity would get more money.
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But what would they get in return?
I like the idea of getting something in return for my donation.
 
Lot's of talk of soldiers and flags... I have a question/scenario. Say a soldier's base got destroyed and they were in the middle of a battle. The soldier sees the US flag still waving above his base. He sees the enemy coming to take the flag down and burn it. The soldier bravely runs to his base, takes the flag and runs with it out of the camp. However, the enemies shoot and kill the solder, but his efforts still saved the flag. Is this soldier a hero and patriot?

My take on this is that the soldier is a moron who values a piece of fabric more than his own life. The flag is a symbol, but that's all it is. A true patriot would serve his country by preserving his life and remaining a soldier, but supporting his/her family and being a good member of their community. A true patriot would be a loyal friend and respected citizen. This person in my opinion did something unpatriotic. He/her put their life in danger for a piece of fabric. They valued that fabric and what it stands for more than their family and friends and more than their own life. Such actions may be seen as heroic to some, but in reality it's quite stupid, unpatriotic, and selfish.

The flag and the US are not immune to criticism. In a nation that prides itself on free speech we should be allowed to burn flags.
 
texmaster said:
That is always a matter of opinion.
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It's a matter of facts. The United States, a supposedly free country, has more prisoners incarcerated then China. The US ranks number one while China is a distant second. If one truly lived in a free society then there wouldn't be as many prisoners as there are now.

texmaster said:
Burning the flag is a sign of disprespect. If politicans are the reason for your ire, burn their pictures.
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Burning the flag is a sign of disrespect to the government that authorized its creation. The first Stars and Stripes was authorized by the Continental Congress then re-authorized under the Congress of the Confederation then under the United States Congress under the Constitution. In all three cases, it took the government three separate laws to authorize the creation of the flag. The flag is a symbol of the government and not the people. Just like the great seals used by the various branches are representative of those parts of the government and not the people.
 
Caine said:
But what would they get in return?
I like the idea of getting something in return for my donation.
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Then it's not really charity.
 
Caine said:
But what would they get in return?
I like the idea of getting something in return for my donation.
Click to expand...

You are correct. People like getting something physical out of a transaction and such gimmicks do often lead towards more giving. However, even with that little trick of psychology, I would still consider the magnet to be meaningless (personal perspective here, others attach meaning to things, as shown by this thread).

Personally, I tend to just directly donate, which is what I do for the charities I support (mainly the united way).
 
digsbe said:
Lot's of talk of soldiers and flags... I have a question/scenario. Say a soldier's base got destroyed and they were in the middle of a battle. The soldier sees the US flag still waving above his base. He sees the enemy coming to take the flag down and burn it. The soldier bravely runs to his base, takes the flag and runs with it out of the camp. However, the enemies shoot and kill the solder, but his efforts still saved the flag. Is this soldier a hero and patriot?

My take on this is that the soldier is a moron who values a piece of fabric more than his own life. The flag is a symbol, but that's all it is. A true patriot would serve his country by preserving his life and remaining a soldier, but supporting his/her family and being a good member of their community. A true patriot would be a loyal friend and respected citizen. This person in my opinion did something unpatriotic. He/her put their life in danger for a piece of fabric. They valued that fabric and what it stands for more than their family and friends and more than their own life. Such actions may be seen as heroic to some, but in reality it's quite stupid, unpatriotic, and selfish.

The flag and the US are not immune to criticism. In a nation that prides itself on free speech we should be allowed to burn flags.
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Sure we should.

But stating this is a right, and supporting someones right to do so are two different things.
 
digsbe said:
Lot's of talk of soldiers and flags... I have a question/scenario. Say a soldier's base got destroyed and they were in the middle of a battle. The soldier sees the US flag still waving above his base. He sees the enemy coming to take the flag down and burn it. The soldier bravely runs to his base, takes the flag and runs with it out of the camp. However, the enemies shoot and kill the solder, but his efforts still saved the flag. Is this soldier a hero and patriot?
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The soldier displayed bad judgement. The military can order another flag. Also, the flag has no strategic or tactical use.

digsbe said:
My take on this is that the soldier is a moron who values a piece of fabric more than his own life. The flag is a symbol, but that's all it is. A true patriot would serve his country by preserving his life and remaining a soldier, but supporting his/her family and being a good member of their community. A true patriot would be a loyal friend and respected citizen. This person in my opinion did something unpatriotic. He/her put their life in danger for a piece of fabric. They valued that fabric and what it stands for more than their family and friends and more than their own life. Such actions may be seen as heroic to some, but in reality it's quite stupid, unpatriotic, and selfish.

The flag and the US are not immune to criticism. In a nation that prides itself on free speech we should be allowed to burn flags.
Click to expand...

I don't think is is unpatriotic or selfish, but rather a neutral action in that respect.
 
megaprogman said:
You are correct. People like getting something physical out of a transaction and such gimmicks do often lead towards more giving. However, even with that little trick of psychology, I would still consider the magnet to be meaningless (personal perspective here, others attach meaning to things, as shown by this thread).

Personally, I tend to just directly donate, which is what I do for the charities I support (mainly the united way).
Click to expand...

F the United Way.
Weasling their way into every employer's office in the form of administration "encouraged" donation requests.

I have to fill out a form, HAVE TO, with my name on it and a zero dollar amount for a donation every year.
 
Caine said:
Sure we should.

But stating this is a right, and supporting someones right to do so are two different things.
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How are the different? If you accept something as a right but don't support it doesn't that mean you are oppressive of that right?
 
digsbe said:
Lot's of talk of soldiers and flags... I have a question/scenario. Say a soldier's base got destroyed and they were in the middle of a battle. The soldier sees the US flag still waving above his base. He sees the enemy coming to take the flag down and burn it. The soldier bravely runs to his base, takes the flag and runs with it out of the camp. However, the enemies shoot and kill the solder, but his efforts still saved the flag. Is this soldier a hero and patriot?

My take on this is that the soldier is a moron who values a piece of fabric more than his own life. The flag is a symbol, but that's all it is. A true patriot would serve his country by preserving his life and remaining a soldier, but supporting his/her family and being a good member of their community. A true patriot would be a loyal friend and respected citizen. This person in my opinion did something unpatriotic. He/her put their life in danger for a piece of fabric. They valued that fabric and what it stands for more than their family and friends and more than their own life. Such actions may be seen as heroic to some, but in reality it's quite stupid, unpatriotic, and selfish.

The flag and the US are not immune to criticism. In a nation that prides itself on free speech we should be allowed to burn flags.
Click to expand...

He is a soldier, so by default he is a patriot and hero. Whether his actions where wise or not is impossible to determine for sure from the details you give in the scenario.
 
Redress said:
Then it's not really charity.
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Of course it is. When you are WAYY over-paying for something because you know that proceeds (which there shall be plenty due to the much higher than reasonable price) will go to Charity.
 
Caine said:
F the United Way.
Weasling their way into every employer's office in the form of administration "encouraged" donation requests.

I have to fill out a form, HAVE TO, with my name on it and a zero dollar amount for a donation every year.
Click to expand...

The reason I give to it is because I know half of the local appropriations comittee and I know exactly where my money goes (the boys and girls club, which I see as awesome and has done some good for the drug addled town where my job is)
 
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