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Flag Vandalism Mars Memorial Day in Several States

As long as the American flag can be printed on everything from button up shirts to bikinis, I really see no problem with people burning the American flag. Either the flag code applies to everything the flag goes on or it applies to nothing.
 
It's someones job at Fox News to scour local news for reports of insufficient patriotism

I was going to say -- Beck and Hannity will undoubtedly tie this back to President Obama. "The tone of anti-patriotism in this country in the wake of the socialist takeover... blah, blah...retard, retard..."

That being said, vandalism is a crime. IMO, the Flag on memorial day makes it worse -- some troll got off pissing in patriots faces yesterday. Shameful. I hope they catch him/them.
 
I support a person's right to burn and trash the flag however they want to. I do believe doing this on Memorial day is highly disrespectful, classless, and insensitive, but they should still have the right to protest and desecrate the flag. However, if they are vandalizing someone else's flag or flags on public property then they should be arrested.
 
A flag is the symbol of a government and burning it is in protest to the actions of said government. My father taught me a very valuable civic duty lesson, which is one can love your country but you can absolutely despise your government. In the United States, the government does not have sovereignty. Sovereignty resides in the people themselves. Therefore, the sovereigns are telling the servant that your actions are not above reproach and you're being called on those actions due to you acting in my name without my consent.

My father was a Vietnam vet that buried 62 of his best friends during his tour over there in '66-'67.

"If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag....wash it." ~ Norman Thomas
 
I have no problems with flag burnings, it's just a flag. But these were other peoples flags, and they should be prosecuted for vandalism.
 
I have no problems with flag burnings, it's just a flag. But these were other peoples flags, and they should be prosecuted for vandalism.
I think we just agreed 100% on something :mrgreen:
 
I don't understand the POV of people that say "IF you don't love your country, you should leave it" You can love your country and still hate the government.

I don't understand people who claim to love their country but hate its government, especially in a country like the USA where the people choose their government. I may turn my nose up like a snob and say that the masses are getting the government they deserve-- but at the end of the day, it's a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and I love those people. I can maybe see some corner cases where dictators have perverted the country's culture, but even then in most cases dictators are dictators because they enjoy widespread support.

I also don't agree with the idea that I should have to leave if I don't love my country. Where will I go? Who will pay for me to leave?

Why should anyone else have to pay for you to leave? You're the one who hates their government-- and on some level, I believe that means you hate them.

And where would that leave anarchists?

Hopefully on the receiving end of an epiphany about how much they need society and how to fulfill their proper place in that society.
 
Because you don't get to destroy someone else's property so you can tell all your bros about how badass you are.

Nobody was suggesting that destroying the property of others was somehow justified. We're just saying that a flag isn't an object that is inherently worse to damage than any other.

I don't understand people who claim to love their country but hate its government, especially in a country like the USA where the people choose their government. I may turn my nose up like a snob and say that the masses are getting the government they deserve-- but at the end of the day, it's a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and I love those people. I can maybe see some corner cases where dictators have perverted the country's culture, but even then in most cases dictators are dictators because they enjoy widespread support.

Why should anyone else have to pay for you to leave? You're the one who hates their government-- and on some level, I believe that means you hate them.


Hopefully on the receiving end of an epiphany about how much they need society and how to fulfill their proper place in that society.

The shortest way to answer all of this is that the world is not black in white. Just because you "hate" something that your government is doing doesn't mean that you think your government is literally as bad as Hitler's Germany.
 
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I think we just agreed 100% on something :mrgreen:

No way! ;)

Anyway, to anyone who things burning a flag is inherently worse than destroying anything else, I have to say watch this video. It's quite awesome.

 
While this was an act of vandalism and as such unacceptable these people should be treated rather lightly. Ultimately their actions amounted to a very small amount of property damage and demanding a harsher punishment for them goes against the very principles for which people are supposedly raising the flag.

Too many people take a position on such actions that demonstrates the very reason for such actions. Patriotism is a softer term for nationalism and the excesses of nationalism lead to fascism.
 
Nobody was suggesting that destroying the property of others was somehow justified. We're just saying that a flag isn't an object that is inherently worse to damage than any other.

Legally, sure, but I'd say it's morally worse, much like a hate crime is morally worse than a regular crime.

Destroying something that you know has special significance to a person is worse than destroying mere property, whether it's a flag, a child's drawing on a refrigerator, or a religious icon.
 
In Canada I haven't come across the attitude that if you don't love your country you shouldn't be here. I was born here, I am Canadian. I didn't choose to be born here, and I can choose to leave if I want, but you don't set the conditions for my residence. There is no law that says you must love your country to stay here. And yet, I look to our neighbors to the south and there is so much fervor about loving one's country. It's practically a sin to say that you hate the state of affairs in your country. I don't love or hate my country, I am just here, and that's all.

That said, because of how Canada's federal politicians are behaving right now, I am not proud to be Canadian. I am ashamed of being Canadian. I see the direction that this country is headed and I am not happy. I did not vote for the government in power. I did not "choose" them, and I voted. So I have a right to complain. Even if I didn't vote, I can complain. I can say I hate my government. That kind of speech is what it means to be Canadian.

If you think that I should love my country in order to stay there, then I say to you, get the hell out. I have a right to think and feel whatever the hell I want, thanks.
 
I don't understand people who claim to love their country but hate its government, especially in a country like the USA where the people choose their government. I may turn my nose up like a snob and say that the masses are getting the government they deserve-- but at the end of the day, it's a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and I love those people. I can maybe see some corner cases where dictators have perverted the country's culture, but even then in most cases dictators are dictators because they enjoy widespread support.

That is a fallacy since felons and other classes of people are prohibited by law from voting. Thus, they cannot choose their government. To answer your reply to me, when was the last time the government actually followed the Constitution of the United States? I can tell you that the last time was after Madison's term as president. After that, every branch of the government violated the Constitution from then until now. By the government violating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it no longer is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It has become a tyranny as per the definition used by the first group of founding fathers.
 
All I can say is that I have already, in this thread, explained the difference between loving your country and being blindly uncritical of its actions. You can think certain officials are behaving badly and still love your country. You can think your country is on the wrong track and still love your country. You can even be ashamed of your country and still love it, as long as your love drives an urge to see your country improve.

Anyone who knows me knows how quick I am to criticize anything I see as wrong, and how harshly that criticism can be phrased. My government is not exempt from my attentions, and it has never been so. That does not change the fact, in the slightest, that I love my country, its government, and the people.
 
What is a flag anyways? Simply a piece of fabric and a symbol of nationalist fevor. That's all. People burn them because they don't like nationalism. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with that?

How about I burn your house because I don't like the color of it?

I'll tell you what is wrong with that.

IT WASN'T THEIR ****ING PROPERTY!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I don't understand the POV of people that say "IF you don't love your country, you should leave it" You can love your country and still hate the government. A flag is not a symbol of country but a symbol of government, and some people don't like what that flag represents.

I also don't agree with the idea that I should have to leave if I don't love my country. Where will I go? Who will pay for me to leave?

Thats the flaw.
The flag is not a symbol of the government, its a symbol of the country. Of its people.
 
I support a person's right to burn and trash the flag however they want to. I do believe doing this on Memorial day is highly disrespectful, classless, and insensitive, but they should still have the right to protest and desecrate the flag. However, if they are vandalizing someone else's flag or flags on public property then they should be arrested.

I don't support a person's right to burn and trash the flag however they want to. However, it is their right.

My view of the word "support" and others view of that term are completely different.
 
While this was an act of vandalism and as such unacceptable these people should be treated rather lightly. Ultimately their actions amounted to a very small amount of property damage and demanding a harsher punishment for them goes against the very principles for which people are supposedly raising the flag.

Too many people take a position on such actions that demonstrates the very reason for such actions. Patriotism is a softer term for nationalism and the excesses of nationalism lead to fascism.





Some of these were flags on poles attached to houses.....


just how lightly should we treat arson and attempted murder?
 
I don't understand the POV of people that say "IF you don't love your country, you should leave it" You can love your country and still hate the government. A flag is not a symbol of country but a symbol of government, and some people don't like what that flag represents.

I also don't agree with the idea that I should have to leave if I don't love my country. Where will I go? Who will pay for me to leave?

You could move to Greece. If you take 10 America haters with you and promise not to come back I will pay for you all to leave.
 
I don't think you should love your country or leave it but I strongly encourage citizens who express hatred for the U.S. to seriously explore their options and take advantage of one if at all possible.
 
Thats the flaw.
The flag is not a symbol of the government, its a symbol of the country. Of its people.

The flag was authorized and created by government law as was the funding of said design. The people had zero say in it. It is representative of the government and not its people. To simplify matters, the country is the citizens as a whole living within a specific territory. Notice how government plays no role in what is a country within the context of the United States. This is because sovereignty resides in the people and not in the government. The government has no sovereignty of itself and has powers that were delegated by the people to represent them to the world and for the protection of rights.
 
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You could move to Greece. If you take 10 America haters with you and promise not to come back I will pay for you all to leave.

Now thats a worthy cause. I'll put in as well.

The people who claim "its just a flag" have no idea what patriotism truely is. But no shock its coming from the far left on this forum.
 
Now thats a worthy cause. I'll put in as well.

The people who claim "its just a flag" have no idea what patriotism truely is. But no shock its coming from the far left on this forum.

I would argue that those who attach such value to a piece of cloth do not understand patriotism.
 
The flag was authorized and created by government law as was the funding of said design. The people had zero say in it. It is representative of the government and not its people. To simplify matters, the country is the citizens as a whole living within a specific territory. Notice how government plays no role in what is a country within the context of the United States. This is because sovereignty resides in the people and not in the government. The government has no sovereignty of itself and has powers that were delegated by the people to represent them to the world and for the protection of rights.

Oh Jesus ****ing Christ are you kidding me? Are we getting that petty? Your not even worth crafting a response to this nonsense.

Goodday!
 
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