Well every EU country, Turkey, the UN...everyone condemns Israel. It's a bit early and we still don't have the full story, but bottom line there are 10 to 20 deads and 36 wounded on one side and 5 wounded on the other side...it's impossible to justify so many casualties.
So....essentially people who jump at the chance to belittle, insult, and talk down to Israel at every chance but are almost always ready to be on tippy toes about places like Iran.
Again, color me surprised. I don't give a ****.
Its not impossible to justify it. I can justify it immedietely if we're dealing in hypotheticals. A handful of IDF people and about 20 times more on the boats then them. At whatever point that they start attacking, in any fashion, I think its fully justified to use force and the goal at that point should be to have:
1. As little causalities for your side as possible
2. As much damage as is needed to cause those attacking you to stop
I don't hold the IDF to any higher standard than I'd hold our military or any other military, or even law enforcement. Once they are being attacked I am absolutely fine with them defending themselves and if it takes a large number of casualties and injuries to get them to stop, so be it. And if the soldiers/law enforcement take few casualities or wounds then frankly they're DOING THEIR JOB.
So yeah, not impossible in my mind at all. If they were severely outnumbered, and were being attacked, and stopped attacking once the far larger amount of people on the other side showed legitimate attempts at stopping then I would say it was justified if it was 50 dead on the "humanatarians" side and 0 wounded on the IDF side.
However, we don't know the full situation yet and only have preliminary words from sources that have a vested interest in this. I won't make a full judgement until more of the facts are clearly out; but I'm not going to make such asinine and ridiculous statements that it's IMPOSSIBLE that what the Israeli's did was unjustified.
The point is that these people were trying to bypass the blockade because they say it is illegal, they obviously did this to make Israel look bad, and they succeeded much more than they had hoped.
And the point is it doesn't matter if they say it is illegal or not, the fact is its there, you know its going to be enforced, so you're an idiot for basically walking on top of a sleeping bear. You're doubly stupid if when the bear rouses up at your presense but seems content to let you walk around it you decide that no, by god, you're going to walk over that bear. And you get no real sympathy when the bear decides to maul your face because you decided to do something stupid.
Yes, Israel looked bad. That doesn't make the "humanatarians" not look like ignorant douchebags.
We don't know yet and I've said earlier in this thread that I understood Israel's security concerns. What I strongly condemn is the obviously disproportionate use of force and the boarding in international waters.
Both of which come directly from your absolutely biased and completely judgemental stance of immedietely believing everything the other side is saying and thinking everything the Israeli side is saying is a lie. It is not a clear cut open and shut case in regards to the international waters thing and the boarding, as has been shown in this thread. Its not a clear cut case that it was obviously disproportionate, as simply looking at the totals does not give the full picture in any way shape or form of what happened. All of it is you coming from a starting point based on assumptions predicated off of
zero save for your own biases and hatreds.
According to the UN and the EU, yes
All I've seen of the "illegality" of it is a suggestion that a condemnation means its illegal and that its predicated off a notion that the blockaid is being done for reasons of punishing the Gaza people rather than for national security reasons, and if it was the latter it would not be illegal, and essentially its the U.N. guessing as to Israel's purposes primarily by a large number of countries who have strong biases against the state.
In your opinion, based off your unquestioning belief in what the "humanatarians" state, your biases against Israel, and your apparent inability to think rationally and honestly about this with such absolutes you keep spitting out.
I strongly oppose the blockade, so I can't condemn attempts to bypass it. And I never said Israel lied, I just said there is no reason to believe the IDF more than the German MEP on board.
Oh bull**** semantics Bub, but you know that, and its why your post here is a joke. Never specifically saying "Israel lied" does not mean you've not repeatedly, and continually, implied it through continually making every comment and post in this thread from the stand point that anything and everything Israel has said about this is not true...either through ignoring what they've said or stating something opposite of what Israel is saying as if your words are facts. You show that you give nothing but lip service to your bull**** line about there being "no more reason" to believe the IDF than the German MEP becasue every post you post is coming from the assumed starting point in line with the thinking of the German MEP and acting as if the German MEP's and others accounting of what happened, why it happened, how it happened, what they were carrying, etc are what actually did happen.
You don't need to go "Israel is lying" and "the humanatarians are telling the truth" in specific, literal words to basically be saying those exact same things.
