• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Transexual Loses Bid For State-Paid Breast Enlargements

If it' a disorder, allowing them to mutilate themselves is cure? :doh

I don't care what people do to themselves so long as they leave other people out of it. If some dude really thinks he's a girl; fine. I can't claim to know, I'm not in his head, I'll take his word for it. If he wants surgery to get into the gender he wants, fine by me. If he wants to assume the female gender totally and be referenced as such; ok, don't care. I'm just not going to pay for any of it.

There are a lot of medical things I'm ok with spending money on. But non-life threatening, optional surgery I think is maybe something I'll draw the line on.
 
Grow a pair. I can call myself Godzilla if I want, or claim that I'm Godzilla "trapped in a guy's body" but it'll never be true. Deal with reality. The guy's a he, for a scientific fact.

Your example has nothing to do with what we are talking about. So try again.

This woman, is a woman, she may have an xy set of chromosomes, but she is a woman. Sex and gender are two completely different things. Gender is socially constructed and has nothing to do with the sex one was born with. Everyone has a right to be the gender they chose to be. For most people, they get lucky. Their sex, and gender match, but for some it doesn't. And they have the right to change themselves to match their true gender, and have a chance at being happy.
 
There are a lot of medical things I'm ok with spending money on. But non-life threatening, optional surgery I think is maybe something I'll draw the line on.

I agree, but in all fairness we're not talking about elective abortion.
 
Your example has nothing to do with what we are talking about. So try again.

This woman, is a woman, she may have an xy set of chromosomes, but she is a woman. Sex and gender are two completely different things. Gender is socially constructed and has nothing to do with the sex one was born with. Everyone has a right to be the gender they chose to be. For most people, they get lucky. Their sex, and gender match, but for some it doesn't. And they have the right to change themselves to match their true gender, and have a chance at being happy.

Transsexuals don't choose to have GID.
 
I agree, but in all fairness we're not talking about elective abortion.

Alright, fair enough. I wouldn't fund abortion either. But if someone has a heart attack, fine I'll throw some money up to make sure that guy doesn't die. Kidney failure, yeah let's do something there. Organ transplant....meh, depends on situation. Life threatening I can buy into it. You want lasik? You're paying for it. I don't care if your depressed because you have to wear big coke bottle glasses. You ain't gonna die so toughen up. Same with gender surgery. You ain't gonna die if you don't have the surgery. You can sit there and be miserable with the rest of us then till you can scrape up the cash for it.
 
Transsexuals don't choose to have GID.

Yeah, thats what I meant, I reread my post and see how it could be taken that way. In no way do I think GID is something someone chooses to have.
 
For this case, with the breast augmentation I can see why they would deny her coverage. But for other trans related expenses, such as hormones, therapy , and SRS(Sexual Reassignment surgery) I think they should provide coverage. Seeing as transgenderism is a document medical disorder.

And its her, not his/hers, that type of language is highly disrespectful.



This is your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, a differing opinion is not hatespeech and it's unfair to assume as much. If debating is what we do here, then you have to hear all sides of the argument. Just because you don't like what you "read" doesn't make the others "haters". :cool:
 
read up if you want to see my actual position. I was simply asking you a question and your assumption, is fail.


If it's a disorder, is it moral for doctors to operate on them?


what if they thought thier heart was broken and needed it removed?

Cosmetic surgery and fatal surgery are not in any way equivalent. The guy who I quoted thinks a cosmetic surgery should be illegal because he might mistake one who used to be a man for a woman. Do you agree with him?

Edit: And such surgery can be necessary for the mental health of the patient. So yes, I do think it is moral for a doctor to operate. Are you a doctor? On what grounds do you question their choice of treatment?
 
Last edited:
I do think that GID warrants gender reassignment surgery in qualified cases - as determined by a trained psychiatrist who understands this issue better than any of us - but in this case I don't agree with the public paying for breast enlargement on the grounds that the woman is just upset that she didn't develop breasts that were sized to her liking. A lot of other born-women feel the same way after puberty, but they would never win an argument to get state funding for augmentation surgery.

The fact is, she does have female breasts, so the gender reassignment was a success. If you have low self-esteem now about the size of your breasts, then should probably try to address that; if you want them bigger, you pay for it.

I agree, this has nothing to do with the fact that we are dealing with a transexual individual.
 
Last edited:
I do think that GID warrants gender reassignment surgery in qualified cases - as determined by a trained psychiatrist who understands this issue better than any of us - but in this case I don't agree with the public paying for breast enlargement on the grounds that the woman is just upset that she didn't develop breasts that were sized to her liking. A lot of other born-women feel the same way after puberty, but they would never win an argument to get state funding for augmentation surgery.

The fact is, she does have female breasts, so the gender reassignment was a success. If you have low self-esteem now about the size of your breasts, then should probably try to address that; if you want them bigger, you pay for it.

I agree, this has nothing to do with the fact that we are dealing with a transexual individual.

Isn't suicide closely correlated with the desire for breast augmentation?
 
Your example has nothing to do with what we are talking about. So try again.

This man, is man, he may have an xy set of chromosomes, but he is a man.
Fixed again. :lol:

"This 18-wheeler truck is a 16 wheeler. It may have 18-wheels, but it is a 16 wheeler".

Sex and gender are two completely different things.
No they aren't.

Gender is socially constructed
No it's not. It's genetically constructed.

and has nothing to do with the sex one was born with
It has everything to to with the sex one was born with. I guess by your standard, Michael Jackson was a white man just because he bleached his skin and "wanted' to be white. Bull. :roll:

Everyone has a right to be the gender they chose to be.
No they don't. In Iran it's illegal for men to dress up as women. It's also impossible to choose your gender/sex - it's determined by genetics.

So not only were you wrong about everyone having that "right", but it's also impossible to choose your gender anyway. So your were wrong on both points. Try again.

For most people, they get lucky. Their sex, and gender match, but for some it doesn't.
That's not true. Sex and gender always match. If a person's unhappy about their sex, then they have mental issues and need help. Feeding their mental disorder by pretending to be a chick like this dude is, is not a good choice. It'll just **** them up in the head even more.

And they have the right to change themselves to match their true gender
Their true (and only) gender is determined by genetics, and they have no such "right" in the vast majority of the the world.

, and have a chance at being happy.
Their best chance at being happy is seeing a good shrink and overcoming their mental disorder. Feeding their disorder would be like buying heroin for an addict because he thinks it'll "make him happy" instead of getting him into rehab.

You're too ignorant on this to be worth talking to. Again, grow a pair and get your mind out of la-la land and into reality.
 
If it' a disorder, allowing them to mutilate themselves is cure? :doh
If some weirdo wants to do that with his own cash, then ****ing let him I say. But if the govt wants to fund that bull**** with tax dollars, then no way in hell. I agree.
 
People get so hung up on labels. "him", "her", "male", "female"...in this case, why does it matter what any one calls them? 160 posts, most to decide what label to attach to a person none of us will probably ever meet or interact with...
 
People get so hung up on labels. "him", "her", "male", "female"...in this case, why does it matter what any one calls them? 160 posts, most to decide what label to attach to a person none of us will probably ever meet or interact with...
Point is there are some loonies who think this dude has a "right" to get fake boobs on taxpayer dollars because he's "really a chick trapped in a dude's body". That's not scientifically possible, so that alone invalidates that assertion.
 
For this case, with the breast augmentation I can see why they would deny her coverage. But for other trans related expenses, such as hormones, therapy , and SRS(Sexual Reassignment surgery) I think they should provide coverage. .

If a guy wishes to look like a woman then he should pay for it himself.

Seeing as transgenderism is a document medical disorder.

And its her, not his/hers,


No, it is his/he or him. Regardless of how much he mutilates his body body to look like the opposite sex he is still a he.


that type of language is highly disrespectful


Just because people find the truth and facts disrespectful does not make it so. If anything is disrespectful it is forcing normal sane people to play along with that idiotic nonsense and to pay for it.

Degrading someone's own identity is hate speech. Yeah, its free speech, but I don't support any form of hate speech.

Calling a spade a spade is not hate speech nor is it degrading.


I'm sorry, Gender Identity Disorder, is the correct medical term

The quacks and doctors who exploit of these poor mentally ill people are no better than the scum who con old folks and other people out of their money. They should lose their licenses and never be allowed to call themselves doctors or medical professionals.


It has varying degree's of severity, but it most cases if left untreated it can lead to depression, and in some cases suicide.

Facilitating a mental disorder is not treating it.
 
Point is there are some loonies who think this dude has a "right" to get fake boobs on taxpayer dollars because he's "really a chick trapped in a dude's body". That's not scientifically possible, so that alone invalidates that assertion.

Funny, I managed to make that point in one sentence. Did not take me 160 some posts. And how many people are actually arguing that anyway? Mostly it is all about what pronoun to use.
 
For this case, with the breast augmentation I can see why they would deny her coverage. But for other trans related expenses, such as hormones, therapy , and SRS(Sexual Reassignment surgery) I think they should provide coverage.
No they shouldn't. He can pay for it himself. But I think a therapist would be a lot cheaper.
 
No they aren't.


No it's not. It's genetically constructed.



No they don't. In Iran it's illegal for men to dress up as women. It's also impossible to choose your gender/sex - it's determined by genetics.


That's not true. Sex and gender always match. If a person's unhappy about their sex, then they have mental issues and need help. Feeding their mental disorder by pretending to be a chick like this dude is, is not a good choice. It'll just **** them up in the head even more.




Their best chance at being happy is seeing a good shrink and overcoming their mental disorder. Feeding their disorder would be like buying heroin for an addict because he thinks it'll "make him happy" instead of getting him into rehab.

You're too ignorant on this to be worth talking to. Again, grow a pair and get your mind out of la-la land and into reality.


No, gender is socially constructed. If not, what makes skirts, and make-up ok for women, and not men, on a genetic level? Nothing, it's all social.

Alright, just because it's illegal in Iran does it make it right? Seriously that is one of the worst examples I've seen on this board. Yeah, lets follow Iran, they got it right.


No, it's not true, sex and gender don't always match. All you have to do is look at transgender people, their gender and sex obviously didn't match. Gender is in the mind not the body. Where's your evidence that gender and sex always match, oh thats right you have none. It won't screw up people, it will make them happy, and let them live the lives they want to live.

Like I've said before, people have tried to use therapy to "get over" their GID, but it doesn't work. In most cases the only cure is to transition.

Also I find it funny that your calling me the ignorant one. All your doing is posting stereotypes and bad information, while I'm posting info that any competent gender therapist would agree with. You're the one in lala land pretending that everything regarding gender is a simple binary, and that gender is socially constructed.
 
No, gender is socially constructed. If not, what makes skirts, and make-up ok for women, and not men, on a genetic level? Nothing, it's all social.
Clothes don't determine gender. Those are just common gender roles, but actual gender and sex are the same.

Wearing a skirt doesn't make him a chick, it makes him a guy who likes to wear skirts. Just like watching football doesn't make a woman a "man" just because football is mainly enjoyed by men.

Your actual gender is the same as your genetically determined sex. If you literally believe that you're the opposite sex, then you have serious mental health issues.

Alright, just because it's illegal in Iran does it make it right? Seriously that is one of the worst examples I've seen on this board. Yeah, lets follow Iran, they got it right.
Point is, abstract "rights" don't exist. Rights only exist if they're able to be enforced. So if you want this to be a right, that's one thing. But you little "it's a right" claim is meaningless.

No, it's not true, sex and gender don't always match. All you have to do is look at transgender people, their gender and sex obviously didn't match.
Obviously it did. Obviously they have mental issues and think they're something they're not.

Gender is in the mind not the body.
No it's not. That'd be like saying "race is in the mind", so if I think I'm black, then that mean's I'm really black and should be allowed a minority college scholarship. Prove that race isn't really just a "social construct". :lol:

Where's your evidence that gender and sex always match, oh thats right you have none.
Where's your evidence that it is? Oh wait you have none, and you're the one making the outstanding claim, not me.

It won't screw up people, it will make them happy, and let them live the lives they want to live.
No it won't. It'll screw them up and feed their delusions. If someone's so insecure that they think they can't be happy without fake tits, then they need way more help than any amount of plastic surgery could ever give them. Common sense people?

Like I've said before, people have tried to use therapy to "get over" their GID, but it doesn't work. In most cases the only cure is to transition.
LOL that's complete nonsense. Thanks for reminding me why you're just a waste of time. There's plenty of biological evidence to the contrary. :lol:

Also I find it funny that your calling me the ignorant one. All your doing is posting stereotypes and bad information, while I'm posting info that any competent gender therapist would agree with.
More bull****. It's called gender identity disorder for a reason.

You're the one in lala land pretending that everything regarding gender is a simple binary, and that gender is socially constructed.
It's a binary. A person can think they're whatever sex they want, but that doesn't mean jack. If a guy likes to wear dresses, that just means he's... a guy who likes to where dresses. Not that he's a girl.

I guess that white guys who listen to rap music are really black, etc etc etc
 
Point is there are some loonies who think this dude has a "right" to get fake boobs on taxpayer dollars because he's "really a chick trapped in a dude's body". That's not scientifically possible, so that alone invalidates that assertion.

Not only is it possible, it's documented fact.

He still shouldn't have tax payer funds but your understanding of transsexualism and GID is way off the mark.
 
Not only is it possible, it's documented fact.

He still shouldn't have tax payer funds but your understanding of transsexualism and GID is way off the mark.
I'm not talking about people born with multiple organs, etc that result from genetic deformities.

For example, if someone is born with male organs but otherwise they are biologically female, then I think that'd be a legit use of a sex-change surgery.

But just some average dude one day deciding he wants to be a girl? No, that's just a personal identity issue. And I think they need help on a personal level.
 
I'm not talking about people born with multiple organs, etc that result from genetic deformities.

Neither am I.

For example, if someone is born with male organs but otherwise they are biologically female, then I think that'd be a legit use of a sex-change surgery.

Sure.

But just some average dude one day deciding he wants to be a girl? No, that's just a personal identity issue. And I think they need help on a personal level.

The average dude doesn't have any form of GID, and most people with GID have what appears to be a perfectly healthy and normal body, no physical deformities, etc.

GID is psychosexual disorder.
 
I'm not talking about people born with multiple organs, etc that result from genetic deformities.

For example, if someone is born with male organs but otherwise they are biologically female, then I think that'd be a legit use of a sex-change surgery.

But just some average dude one day deciding he wants to be a girl? No, that's just a personal identity issue. And I think they need help on a personal level.

First off those people are intersexed people, your confusing two different things.

Second
This isn't just something that is done on a whim. Someone can't go "oh I want to be the other gender" one day and get a sex change. They have to go through numerous therapy sessions to determine if they really have GID, and not some other personality disorder. To even qualify for a sex change, either changing form Male to Female, or from Female to Male, they have to be on Hormone Replacement Therapy for atleast a year. So it is not something anyone can do on a whim.
 
Cosmetic surgery and fatal surgery are not in any way equivalent. The guy who I quoted thinks a cosmetic surgery should be illegal because he might mistake one who used to be a man for a woman. Do you agree with him?

Edit: And such surgery can be necessary for the mental health of the patient. So yes, I do think it is moral for a doctor to operate. Are you a doctor? On what grounds do you question their choice of treatment?




Actually, I'm not a doctor, but I play one on the internetz.... :ssst:




Seriously though lopping off ones junk cannot be seriously considered a "Treatment"......
 
People get so hung up on labels. "him", "her", "male", "female"...in this case, why does it matter what any one calls them? 160 posts, most to decide what label to attach to a person none of us will probably ever meet or interact with...






actually, like the gay marriage debate. I don't care what YOU call it, I won't call a he a she...


and if a he, who lopped his junk off and defrauds another person of thier gender for romantic gain, should be eligable for a rape charge.
 
Back
Top Bottom