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Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

As crippling as yours. :roll:

So tell me, from your vast legal experience, how does something become unconstitutional. What process has to be followed?

So, you're suggesting that once a legal precedent has been set, cases have to be continually re-tried in order to re-establish that precedent?
 
now there is a civil standard to apply
if the elderly are intimidated enough not to object then the evangelists should be able to continue to feed their religious propaganda to this crowd

And you have no clue whether anyone objected to the prayer or if they were intimidated .... pulling theories out of your arse does not help your position.

Based on my experience with the elderly in the south, I would be willing to bet that every single person in that home welcomes the prayer.
 
Like I said, it doesn't really matter to me which interpretation is the "correct" one. I'm an agnostic, but, unlike the unthinking leftist mob, I don't feel obligated to attack religiosity at every opportunity.

Would you do me a solid and venture into the European section and tell the other leftists that I am part of their unthinking mob?

They might not disavow me if you put in the right kind of word.
 
Nonsense! You can't come up with anyone who objected other than the lib that raised a stink in the service company that delivers the food, so you ascribe this feigned outrage to every resident? sorry, that is weak.
I have no outrage for anyone, feigned or otherwise. You asked who was forced to sit there, and I told you: Everyone who wanted to eat.

Ah BS! You just don't like organized religion so you feel that it should be destroyed period.
Is this seriously your "debate" tactic? Just makin' **** up and telling your opponent that's how they feel?

This could be fun. Okay, what am I feeling... Now!?

sure you do....I will pray for you right now, and my bet is that you will be offended....And I am not even anywhere near you.
Why would I be offended? :confused: Not only is offending me next to impossible, but if someone was thinking good thoughts for me, why would that offend me?

You are a strange fella. :doh
 
I never said I objected to the federal government subsidizing their food. Where did you get that idea from??

Do you believe that people on medicare in a hospital should be denied a priest ?? What about a dying veteran in a VA hospital?? Should preachers be banned from VA hospitals ???

Here's where it gets tough, so I'll explain it for you.

In a VA hospital, a dying patient has the OPTION to ask for a priest or preacher. One is not FORCED to pray over him. A Muslim solider can ask for an Imam and a Jewish solider can ask for a Rabbi. An agnostic soldier can ask for his best friend, his wife, or his mom, or for the Mother Earth to say something nice for him.

OPTIONS. A center-led group prayer isn't an OPTION. That's a forced prayer.

A moment of silence or bowed heads or whatever gives everyone the option to do as they wish before their government supported meal.

NO ONE was forced NOT to pray. To say so is an out and out lie.
 
Who really cares if someone says a silent prayer over their food? Only the very small minded, that is who....
I have had lunch with friends and coworkers who have done that, felt no offense, as none was intended.
If you are constantly looking for an excuse to whine, you will find excuses to do just that.

OTOH, in our family, we were reluctant to have my MIL bless the food. By the time she was done, the food was cold.
 
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Look at you, idealistically thinking that Christians actually pay attention to the Bible when it conflicts with their desire to impose their beliefs on other people and show how holy they are. I find it rather sweet, actually.

I AM very sweet.

My dog keeps licking me, anyway.
 
Here's where it gets tough, so I'll explain it for you.

In a VA hospital, a dying patient has the OPTION to ask for a priest or preacher. One is not FORCED to pray over him. A Muslim solider can ask for an Imam and a Jewish solider can ask for a Rabbi. An agnostic soldier can ask for his best friend, his wife, or his mom, or for the Mother Earth to say something nice for him.

OPTIONS. A center-led group prayer isn't an OPTION. That's a forced prayer.

A moment of silence or bowed heads or whatever gives everyone the option to do as they wish before their government supported meal.

NO ONE was forced NOT to pray. To say so is an out and out lie.

So you have no objection to the federal government paying for a priest then ??? What about when Obama says "God Bless America" at the end of a speech?? Is he forcing everyone listening to hear his brief "prayer"? What about when Congress opens a session with a prayer?? Should that be illegal??

The people in the home do have the option to hear or participate in the prayer. If they are so offended, as many on here think, they simply should wait until after the prayer is finished before coming into the dining hall. Is that too much an imposition ???
 
Unless freedom FROM religion exists on an EQUAL footing, there is NO freedom OF religion .

You can't have it both ways.
 
Unless freedom FROM religion exists on an EQUAL footing, there is NO freedom OF religion .

You can't have it both ways.

Actually, I think it HAS to be both ways! We need both equally.
 
Unless freedom FROM religion exists on an EQUAL footing, there is NO freedom OF religion .

You can't have it both ways.


that is nonsense, pure and simple. Where are you forced to participate in religion that you don't wish to?


j-mac
 
that is nonsense, pure and simple. Where are you forced to participate in religion that you don't wish to?


j-mac

At a Sr. Citizens center in GA. if one decides to have dinner there.
 
At a Sr. Citizens center in GA. if one decides to have dinner there.


Not true, is it possible that any person wishing to receive their dinner and come in after the prayer is told that they can't do so? If so, show me where.


j-mac
 
So you have no objection to the federal government paying for a priest then ??? What about when Obama says "God Bless America" at the end of a speech?? Is he forcing everyone listening to hear his brief "prayer"? What about when Congress opens a session with a prayer?? Should that be illegal??

The people in the home do have the option to hear or participate in the prayer. If they are so offended, as many on here think, they simply should wait until after the prayer is finished before coming into the dining hall. Is that too much an imposition ???

I have no objection to official chaplains as long as their not allowed to proselytize to those who don't ask for it. God Bless America isn't a prayer. I actually believe that Congress shouldn't have a prayer, but I'm not in Congress, so I don't really care.

Is it too much of an imposition for people to pray to themselves given the time of silence?

Why the need to make everyone say the same prayer? What is the need to make everyone believe the same thing? How do you not see forcing people to say a prayer an imposition? Granted, you can just avoid it and that's fine. But how is saying, "Let's have a moment of silence" more of an imposition than "Let's all say the Lord's Prayer"?

Can you not see one as more forceful than the other?

What is the need to force one interpretation of one religion upon everyone around you? (And that's the universal "you", not the personal "you").
 
I guess you've never been the person sitting there uncomfortably while other people assume you are one of the group and subject you to a religious service you didn't sign up for. I lived in Utah as a Southern Baptist, and experienced it all the time, which is what largely influenced my views on the subject.

A few thoughts:

First, public prayers for the sake of being public about them are expressly forbidden, BY CHRIST, in the New Testament.

I don't think the old people are doing it for the sake of being in the public.

Plus, didn't Christ have a Sermon on the Mount?

Second, what is the goal of such conduct, if it is not rewarded by God? Generally speaking, it is done because the believers are so inconsiderate that they feel they must subject other people to their practices.

The goal is to praise and thank God. Did somebody in the place object that you know of? If not, how do you speak as if you know what was said and what is in the heart's of all those people in the room?

Third, what does such behavior do for the cause of Christ? Be specific. What is this sort of public prayer designed to accomplish, in your opinion? I'd really like to know.

Well, Christ said to praise God on a daily basis and as often as possible. So I think it serves the "cause" of Christ quite well. Christ said to pray in your closet and to spread his word to the world. This particular prayer is strictly for the people of the old people home.
 
Not true, is it possible that any person wishing to receive their dinner and come in after the prayer is told that they can't do so? If so, show me where.


j-mac

Not saying that happens at this particular center, but when I worked in Indianapolis, I worked with a Jewish man who was removed from the Wheeler Mission (one of very few homeless shelters in downtown) because he asked not to pray to Jesus.

Now, Wheeler was completely privately funded, so as much as I hated it, it's their right. But if they'd received federal funds, I would've turned them in right away.
 
Not saying that happens at this particular center, but when I worked in Indianapolis, I worked with a Jewish man who was removed from the Wheeler Mission (one of very few homeless shelters in downtown) because he asked not to pray to Jesus.

Now, Wheeler was completely privately funded, so as much as I hated it, it's their right. But if they'd received federal funds, I would've turned them in right away.


I don't think that privately funded homeless shelters are the same as nursing facilities. However, when that person was removed what was his reaction? Did he want to stay? Why is it up to you to right the wrong of someone else that is capable of speaking for themselves?


j-mac
 
At a Sr. Citizens center in GA. if one decides to have dinner there.

because they hold a gun to your head and force you to pray?

though not religious, i've grown up around mormons, whenever they'd pray before a meal, i'd just bow my head and shut up, simple as that, if you want people to show respect of the fact that you don't believe in god, show them respect for their beliefs too.
 
because they hold a gun to your head and force you to pray?

though not religious, i've grown up around mormons, whenever they'd pray before a meal, i'd just bow my head and shut up, simple as that, if you want people to show respect of the fact that you don't believe in god, show them respect for their beliefs too.

The only problem I have is when tax dollars get involved.
 
that is nonsense, pure and simple. Where are you forced to participate in religion that you don't wish to?


j-mac

Sorry to hear that you don't consider religious freedom a fundamental right. Seeing how as I do, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm happy knowing the Constitution agrees with me.
 
They're prohibiting them from praying aloud and in unison, hence, it is a prohibition on the free exercise of religion.



Why should they HAVE to remain silent? Why can the Federal government forbid them from praying aloud and in unison before their meal?

Now what of other residents who are not christian during this verbal praying

Can they talk aloud to each other during the prayer, if so I have no trouble with it, if they are forced to remain silent then I have problems with the restriction on their free speech being violated
 
Ga. Seniors are still allowed to pray before meals. They can even do it in an organized fashion as a group.

What they can't do is get a free meal on the federal dime AND an organized prayer group at the same place and same time.

This is why they should be using private charities instead of federal money to fund their meals. Then there'd be no problems.
 
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