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Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

This is nothing more than advocating for cheap healthcare, not to be confused with value priced. Cheap is the key word, for all the savings UHC countries may realize the consumers suffer waiting lists, the maximum denials of critical and pain management services, later access to improved meds, and a deterioration of care quality, this is not to be confused with a value. While it's true that American citizens....not the U.S. overspends on care it is not due to the private market, rather, an overregulated one thanks to improper and overextended government interference, as well, insurance pays more because the companies can, prices reflect the difference from not only tort abuses, but overregulation, and emergency room freeloaders. But hey, keep advocating for cheap, as of right now it's not our problem in the U.S. and no one else's business.

There is nothing .. not one bit of information you can use to defend American healthcare cost. It is the worst most inefficent system in the industrialized world. Save your breath and stop being so pig headed about this terrible inefficient and over priced private healthcare system. Just grow up.

Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by the private sector. Health insurance is primarily provided by the private sector, with the exception of programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the Children's Health Insurance Program and the Veterans Health Administration.

At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5] More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.[11]

Active debate about health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, and quality. Many have argued that the system does not deliver equivalent value for the money spent. The US pays twice as much yet lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, though the relation between these statistics to the system itself is debated. Currently, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][12] The United States life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[13][14][15]

The USA's life expectancy is ranked 50th in the world after the European Union (40th).[16][17] The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[18][19] The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries,[20] and notes U.S. care costs the most by far.[21]

According to the Institute of Medicine of the United States National Academies, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[22][23] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States."[22] while a 2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found a much higher figure of more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States due to Americans lacking health insurance.[24][25] More broadly, the total number of people in the United States, whether insured or uninsured, who die because of lack of medical care was estimated in a 1997 analysis to be nearly 100,000 per year.[26]
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This whole thing is about running private health insurance out of business forever. No doubt Auto and life insurances will be next.
 
American healthcare.. is a complete mess, It's a privatised disaster.. Someday America will realise that healthcare for profit is an exercise in idiocy.

Total Per Capita > Health Care Funding statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

# 1 United States: $4,631.00 per capita
# 2 Switzerland: $3,222.00 per capita
# 3 Germany: $2,748.00 per capita
# 4 Iceland: $2,608.00 per capita
# 5 Canada: $2,535.00 per capita
# 6 Denmark: $2,420.00 per capita
# 7 France: $2,349.00 per capita
= 8 Belgium: $2,268.00 per capita
= 8 Norway: $2,268.00 per capita
# 10 Netherlands: $2,246.00 per capita

International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png

So is assuming you get something for nothing.
 
So is assuming you get something for nothing.

No you get real value for the tax you pay instead of fat cats lining their pockets for profit. State provided healthcare has real value if you remove the profit motive.
 
There is nothing .. not one bit of information you can use to defend American healthcare cost. It is the worst most inefficent system in the industrialized world.
First off, I'm an insurance professional and know the benefits/fallbacks of every major HS system, so don't try to bull**** me and stop lying to yourself.
Save your breath and stop being so pig headed about this terrible inefficient and over priced private healthcare system. Just grow up.
You seem to be new here, so I will give you this ONE personal attack, don't let it happen again. You are apparently either looking for your life to be subsidized or America bashing and either way you have the wrong attitude for a debate. You obviously are not aware of the situation since you are using the typical, cookie cutter information regarding health care analysis and it is wrong as always. Again, I am a professional in this subject matter and you are not.
 
First off, I'm an insurance professional and know the benefits/fallbacks of every major HS system, so don't try to bull**** me and stop lying to yourself. You seem to be new here, so I will give you this ONE personal attack, don't let it happen again. You are apparently either looking for your life to be subsidized or America bashing and either way you have the wrong attitude for a debate. You obviously are not aware of the situation since you are using the typical, cookie cutter information regarding health care analysis and it is wrong as always. Again, I am a professional in this subject matter and you are not.

Oh your job needs to be deleted out of healthcare. heh I have no interest in your opinion on this.
 
No you get real value for the tax you pay instead of fat cats lining their pockets for profit. State provided healthcare has real value if you remove the profit motive.
You truly don't have a clue. The average private H.I. company makes a 6% profit margin, which is about 3-4% points BELOW the standard average business margin for success. But please, if it makes you feel better to regurgitate factless emotional talking points with no actual real world analysis be my guest.
 
Oh your job needs to be deleted out of healthcare. heh I have no interest in your opinion on this.
Ah, so you lost the argument so now you want to attack. Thanks for the concession.
 
You truly don't have a clue. The average private H.I. company makes a 6% profit margin, which is about 3-4% points BELOW the standard average business margin for success. But please, if it makes you feel better to regurgitate factless emotional talking points with no actual real world analysis be my guest.

First thing America should do is delete private insurance in healthcare.. lol.
 
You truly don't have a clue. The average private H.I. company makes a 6% profit margin, which is about 3-4% points BELOW the standard average business margin for success. But please, if it makes you feel better to regurgitate factless emotional talking points with no actual real world analysis be my guest.

Tell me. Where does all the money go?
 
There is no good argument to support the current system in the US. Healthcare reforms didn't even come close to doing anything any good for the taxpayers or the American people. Your system is terrible no "professional" insurance salesman can convince me in light of all the evidence that the US system is good or even remotely worth the money paid.
 
Tell me. Where does all the money go?
1) Minimum cash on hand requirements, 2) regulatory compliance, 3) Paying claims, 4) administrative costs, 5) reinvestment to build cash on hand, 6) salaries, 7) profit.
 
There is no good argument to support the current system in the US. Healthcare reforms didn't even come close to doing anything any good for the taxpayers or the American people. Your system is terrible no "professional" insurance salesman can convince me in light of all the evidence that the US system is good or even remotely worth the money paid.
So your debate tactic is repeat incorrect until it's accepted as fact. No backing with real analysis or actual industry accepted information. Let me know how that turns out.
 

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So your debate tactic is repeat incorrect until it's accepted as fact. No backing with real analysis or actual industry accepted information. Let me know how that turns out.

Look whatever the matter with your rambling it doesn't change the fact the American system is terrible and privatised. It is terrible just google it ffs grow up and admit it is just terrible.

Google
 
hrm.. well you complain about taxation. But healthcare for profit is costing you more then it would if the government provided the service to everyone at cost. America needs to get healthcare for profit out of your pockets.

Seems to me though if you just want to hold onto the worst healthcare system in the world all you have to do is nothing and complain about taxation.

EDIT: Look it is a knee-jerk response to jack threads when Americans complain about taxation and the cost of healthcare. America just needs to stop with the idiocy.

The GDP in regard to healthcare is interesting - but isn't the sole key to focus on so much as the effectiveness of that cost.
The effectiveness turns it good or bad. Our spending is *only* bad if most of it is wasteful (which it is - I do support an overhaul of the system) - but that doesn't mean that another country is automatically more efficient just because they spend *less* - so GDP tells how much a country spends, but gives no consideration to effectiveness - maybe other countries need to spend MORE in order for their system and efforts to be more effective? Maybe France spends too much and is ineffective, as well - thus could also use a restructuring? (just an example - no fact or reasoning behind it!)

More important numbers to focus on when comparing effectiveness/cost to other countries would be to factor things separately and compare: recovery time for illnesses and diseases, success rate, cost (calculated for inflation and exchange rates) for itemized things: medications, certain treatments, supplies (everything from bandages to stethoscopes and scalpals) - as well as people's pay (receptionists, etc), factoring in the cost for water, electricity, cleaning supplies (all these things that hospitals and private practices have to cover) - and so on, so forth.

Looking at *the* GDP as a percentage of overall healthcare costs is just *one* little thing - and it's the least important thing if you don't have all tehse other numbers to consider and compare it with and factor into it.

(I'll do some research and write up something to explain my point . . . I'll be back in a bit)
 
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No you get real value for the tax you pay instead of fat cats lining their pockets for profit. State provided healthcare has real value if you remove the profit motive.

Kind of like our public education system....gotcha. :thumbs:
 
Oh your job needs to be deleted out of healthcare. heh I have no interest in your opinion on this.
First off, I work my ass off to make a better life for myself, and I make commission only. Even so I will take a lesser commission to give my clients a better product, government does not do this in medicine, they short on the consumer end and raise taxes. You attacking my livelyhood because you don't like business speaks volumes in the character column. As well, your opinion in this matter means nothing as it doesn't change the fact that you are not in the industry and using little information and relies on an offensive attack on those who disagree.
 
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The GDP in regard to healthcare is interesting - but isn't the sole key to focus on so much as the effectiveness of that cost.
The effectiveness turns it good or bad. Our spending is *only* bad if most of it is wasteful (which it is - I do support an overhaul of the system) - but that doesn't mean that another country is automatically more efficient just because they spend *less* - so GDP tells how much a country spends, but gives no consideration to effectiveness - maybe other countries need to spend MORE in order for their system and efforts to be more effective? Maybe France spends too much and is ineffective, as well - thus could also use a restructuring? (just an example - no fact or reasoning behind it!)
Absolutely right, there is a difference between a good value and a cheap price tag.

More important numbers to focus on when comparing effectiveness/cost to other countries would be to factor things separately and compare: recovery time for illnesses and diseases, success rate, cost (calculated for inflation and exchange rates) for itemized things: medications, certain treatments, supplies (everything from bandages to stethoscopes and scalpals) - as well as people's pay (receptionists, etc), factoring in the cost for water, electricity, cleaning supplies (all these things that hospitals and private practices have to cover) - and so on, so forth.
Exactly right. There is patient satisfaction, choice of care, advancement of care, availability and timeliness of care, sanitary conditions, privacy, and other factors to consider. A private system is superior in most of these aspects
 
Moderator's Warning:
There have been enough personal attacks in this thread. Focus on the issue at hand instead of the other posters.
 
Kind of like our public education system....gotcha. :thumbs:

Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.
 
Look whatever the matter with your rambling it doesn't change the fact the American system is terrible and privatised. It is terrible just google it ffs grow up and admit it is just terrible.

Google
Google? Really? All that provided was a bunch of blogs, a Wikipedia article, and references to the World Health Organization, all biased with suspect methodology and incomplete or inaccurate data.
 
1) Minimum cash on hand requirements, 2) regulatory compliance, 3) Paying claims, 4) administrative costs, 5) reinvestment to build cash on hand, 6) salaries, 7) profit.

If someone is paid a very good salary, isn't that their own personal profit? It does not sound like it is going into thin air.

Harry and Louise were false health care prophets. Remember them? They used scare tactics to prevent health care reform. They stopped health care reform.

Someone is not telling the truth. Hello!
 
Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.

I would love to see you prove this.
 
Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.
Depends on the district I guess. There are some fantastic public schools and then there are some that should have been condemned years ago. The health system needs work, but this bill needs to be repealed immediately in lieu of things that facilitate a streamlined approach to medicine using things that work and making room to improve things that don't. I also will concede that those reforms are needed fifteen years ago.
 
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