Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

rivrrat said:

Hey Jall... I think we should go to Mexico on July 4th and get pissy at anyone displaying a Mexican flag. I mean, how DARE they disrespect us like that!! And July 4th is actually a big holiday celebrated nationally. So surely no other country in the world shows their own flags on THAT day.

Click to expand...

The difference between us and that third world cess pool of a country is that we would send our kids home to keep the peace and to curb them acting like a bunch of subhuman savages...there, they will just roll your body into a gutter when one of them knifes you for disrespecting their pathetic excuse for a nation.

rivrrat said:

Please show me where, in any of the news coverage of this, it states that the flag wearing students were being violent. Because I seem to have missed that somewhere.

Click to expand...

Somehow I'm not surprised that you would form such a strong opinion without actually knowing the facts of the situation. According to the wikipedia article on the subject, "School officials deemed the garments "incendiary" and "disrespectful," fearing that displaying the flag would incite fights with the Mexican-American student body." But hey, why should facts get in the way of your trumped up, right-wing talking-point outrage?:lol:

Guy Incognito said:

Somehow I'm not surprised that you would form such a strong opinion without actually knowing the facts of the situation. According to the wikipedia article on the subject, "School officials deemed the garments "incendiary" and "disrespectful," fearing that displaying the flag would incite fights with the Mexican-American student body." But hey, why should facts get in the way of your trumped up, right-wing talking-point outrage?:lol:

Click to expand...

Sooo.. you've got nothing? There was nothing at all stating that the kids were being violent? All you have is that the "school officials" thought that clothing adorned with the UNITED STATES FLAG was "incendiary" and "disrespectful".

Do you want to perhaps try again, or is that your final answer?

Guy Incognito said:

Somehow I'm not surprised that you would form such a strong opinion without actually knowing the facts of the situation. According to the wikipedia article on the subject, "School officials deemed the garments "incendiary" and "disrespectful," fearing that displaying the flag would incite fights with the Mexican-American student body." But hey, why should facts get in the way of your trumped up, right-wing talking-point outrage?:lol:

Click to expand...

Oh well if Wikipedia says it, then that just makes it air tight.

And, by the way, here's that reading comprehension thing again: all the wiki says is that the flag was seen as incendiary and disrespectful...not that the students were actually doing anything wrong.

I think what you don't get is that most of us have a problem with people seeing the flag in that manner within the borders of the US no matter what fake mexican Corona y Limon day it is.

rivrrat said:

Sooo.. you've got nothing? There was nothing at all stating that the kids were being violent? All you have is that the "school officials" thought that clothing adorned with the UNITED STATES FLAG was "incendiary" and "disrespectful".

Click to expand...

The key phrase there, since you clearly didn't bother reading it, was that they "feared it would start a fight." That is enough to justify their actions, unless you have some reason to believe that their fears weren't justified, in which case the burden of proof is on you, because such extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Otherwise, the fact that administrators well founded fear that there was a chance a fight would be provoked is certainly enough to justify their actions.

Maybe you should study up a little more and come back when you have something useful to contribute. Thanks for playing!:2wave:

Thank you, Mr. Akston, I am only too happy to oblige. My apologies for anything I said in the heat of the argument that crossed the line of civility. If I may ask, for the record, do the "personal or witty attacks" also include slurs against the good people of Mexico?

Guy Incognito said:

The key phrase there, since you clearly didn't bother reading it, was that they "feared it would start a fight." That is enough to justify their actions, unless you have some reason to believe that their fears weren't justified, in which case the burden of proof is on you, because such extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Otherwise, the fact that administrators well founded fear that there was a chance a fight would be provoked is certainly enough to justify their actions.

Maybe you should study up a little more and come back when you have something useful to contribute. Thanks for playing!:2wave:

Click to expand...

So again, nothing at all about the students themselves being violent. So that means that my prior post regarding the expulsion of actually violent students still stands uncontested given that your reply to it is lacking in facts.

Once more, if students were appearing to or did become violent, then the violent students should be removed from school. Not the kids who happened to be wearing clothing that offended someone's delicate sensibilities.

If little suzy gets pissed at people wearing red t-shirts, then little suzy can go home. You don't send home the kids wearing the red t-shirts just because little suzy is a whiny bitch.

rivrrat said:

So again, nothing at all about the students themselves being violent.

Click to expand...

Thats just it, there was something about the students themselves being violent. To wit, a reasonable fear on the part of administrators "that displaying the flag would incite fights with the Mexican-American student body." Administrators shouldn't have to wait until the first punch is thrown before taking disciplinary action against students. It is highly presumptuous to second-guess the teachers and administrators on the ground, particularly without evidence. The fact is that the say that there was reason to fear that the shirts would incite violence, and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise.

To go with your example, if a student sadistically wears a red t-shirt with the specific intent of pissing off "little suzy" knowing full well that such a t-shirt would incite "little suzy" then administrators are fully justified in asking the student to remove the red t-shirt.

Guy Incognito said:

Thank you, Mr. Akston, I am only too happy to oblige. My apologies for anything I said in the heat of the argument that crossed the line of civility. If I may ask, for the record, do the "personal or witty attacks" also include slurs against the good people of Mexico?

Click to expand...

The good people of Mexico haven't had any slurs made against them...just the subhuman migratory herds that wind up here with no regard for our laws.

Guy Incognito said:

Thats just it, there was something about the students themselves being violent.

Click to expand...

No, there was NOT. Not a single word about the students wearing the shirts being violent in the slightest. Not a word.

What was said was that the school officials felt the US flag was "incendiary" and "disrespectful". In other words, the school officials are ****tards.

There was nothing mentioned at all about the flag wearing students starting a fight, hitting anyone, threatening to, or anything of the sort. Simply, they wore clothing that - according to school rules - was perfectly acceptable to wear. If the school REALLY thinks that the stars and stripes are "incendiary" and "disrespectful", then they could make a rule disallowing any representation of it on any clothing, books, artwork, etc, and pull it down from the flagpole. However, since they deem such clothing appropriate attire for the school, making students go home for wearing attire deemed appropriate simply because Jose got his panties in a wad is flat out, without a doubt, 100% WRONG.

Either it's okay to wear the attire, or it's not. Period.

To wit, a reasonable fear on the part of administrators "that displaying the flag would incite fights with the Mexican-American student body."

Click to expand...

Did the school remove the flag from the flagpole?

If the mexican american student body can't handle seeing the stars and stripes flying in the United ****ing States, then THEY need to go home.

To go with your example, if a student sadistically wears a red t-shirt with the specific intent of pissing off "little suzy" knowing full well that such a t-shirt would incite "little suzy" then administrators are fully justified in asking the student to remove the red t-shirt.

Click to expand...

Holy ****. No, they are NOT. The school doesn't revolve around the delicate feelings of one or even a specific group of students. If they get pissy over the color of someone's shirt, THEY go home. Little suzy doesn't get to dictate what all of the other students can wear. And any administrator that would allow that doesn't deserve such a position of authority.

Guy Incognito said:

Thats just it, there was something about the students themselves being violent. .

Click to expand...

Link. now.

Guy Incognito said:

To go with your example, if a student sadistically wears a red t-shirt with the specific intent of pissing off "little suzy" knowing full well that such a t-shirt would incite "little suzy" then administrators are fully justified in asking the student to remove the red t-shirt.

Click to expand...

You can't possibly know intent and therefore, it cannot be entered into evidence.

Guy Incognito said:

You mean like Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, or Halloween? Somehow I think you can still be patriotic and celebrate a holiday that is not related to the USA. Better luck next time.:2wave:

Click to expand...

Every holiday you mentioned is religious not national.

There is a difference. This is about celebrating nationalism not religion.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

Link. now.

Click to expand...

I know right? :shock:

Hugh_Akston said:

Moderator's Warning:

The personal attacks and "witty" attacks end now if you want to remain in this thread.

Click to expand...

TGND: "Witty" attacks? :lol:

jallman said:

I have no idea what June 28th is but somehow I find it unlikely anyone would throw a hissy fit over an American flag being worn on that day in America either.

Click to expand...

June 28, Stonewall riots.

That's where we disagree. The side that has a problem with the American flag being displayed within the borders of AMERICA for any reason whatsoever is the one that needs to sit down and STFU or find themselves on a bus home.

Click to expand...

Let me preface this by saying I don't know what those boys were thinking, what their motive were. However, regarding "American flag being displayed within the borders of AMERICA for any reason"...



Here they are mocking the American flag, wearing it upside down. I think we both agree this is a bad reason.



Here the Prop 8 group is trying to associate their cause with patriotism and what they believe American should represent.



Here again, Prop 8 people believe their cause is somehow associated with all things American.

I would NEVER begin to show the kind of arrogance it takes to go into a country's sovereign borders and make a complaint about the display of their flag by any of their citizens for any reason.

Click to expand...

I don't believe those complaining about the boys were VISITORS. According to the story they were citizens.

I don't believe the simple displaying or waving of the American flag justifies the motives/message of the wavers or wearers.

hazlnut said:

June 28, Stonewall riots.



Let me preface this by saying I don't know what those boys were thinking, what their motive were. However, regarding "American flag being displayed within the borders of AMERICA for any reason"...

Here they are mocking the American flag, wearing it upside down. I think we both agree this is a bad reason.

Here the Prop 8 group is trying to associate their cause with patriotism and what they believe American should represent.

Here again, Prop 8 people believe their cause is somehow associated with all things American.



I don't believe those complaining about the boys were VISITORS. According to the story they were citizens.

I don't believe the simple displaying or waving of the American flag justifies the motives/message of the wavers or wearers.

Click to expand...

The Flag is not what is offensive here, nor is it antagonistic, its the assholes here whom you are dishonestly comparing to Patriotic American kids



It's a shameful dishonest tactic.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

The Flag is not what is offensive here, nor is it antagonistic, its the assholes here whom you are dishonestly comparing to Patriotic American kids

Click to expand...

a) Exactly -- it's NOT the flag itself that is offensive...

b) I don't know what the kids are. What makes them Patriotic Americans?

Because you acknowledged that those in the pictures are assholes, then you must agree that holding/wearing a flag does not necessarily make you a Patriot or representative of American ideals.

Correct?

So, just because these boys coordinated their dress on a certain day with U.S. flag bandanas and t-shirts, what makes them Patriots?

I would like the boys to finish this sentence: When we coordinated our dress with U.S. flag bandannas and t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo the point/statement we were trying to make was...

It's a shameful dishonest tactic.

Click to expand...

Rev:

You be honest and read my full post. I stated I don't know what the boys were thinking and I used the pictures to illustrate the point that not those holding/displaying the flag were doing so with pure, perfect, patriotic motives.

If we can agree that the flag represents something special, an idea that is bigger than all of us, then those holding it or wearing it should be representative of those ideas in some way... and not using the flag to represent an idea or cause that is un-American.

Can we agree on that?

If so, then it is a legitimate question to ask: What are you trying to say by wearing those t-shirts on this day?

As an American, if I want to wear a US flag colored shirt, then I will. I don't care if it's Cinco de Mayo, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa or whatever foreign country holiday is. Celebrate it in your own private way and don't worry about what colors Americans are wearing.

hazlnut said:

a) Exactly -- it's NOT the flag itself that is offensive...

b) I don't know what the kids are. What makes them Patriotic Americans?

Because you acknowledged that those in the pictures are assholes, then you must agree that holding/wearing a flag does not necessarily make you a Patriot or representative of American ideals.

Correct?

So, just because these boys coordinated their dress on a certain day with U.S. flag bandanas and t-shirts, what makes them Patriots?

I would like the boys to finish this sentence: When we coordinated our dress with U.S. flag bandannas and t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo the point/statement we were trying to make was...

Click to expand...

Read the article. I'm sorry you missed thier interviews where they simply where showing pride in thier nation...


They weren't racists, bigots, or anything else you have dishonestly tried to link them to.. they were kids, wearing patriotic colors.


And were sent home, because apparently the USA is offensive on fake mexicamerican corona y limon day.

Rev:

You be honest and read my full post. I stated I don't know what the boys were thinking and I used the pictures to illustrate the point that not those holding/displaying the flag were doing so with pure, perfect, patriotic motives.

If we can agree that the flag represents something special, an idea that is bigger than all of us, then those holding it or wearing it should be representative of those ideas in some way... and not using the flag to represent an idea or cause that is un-American.

Can we agree on that?

If so, then it is a legitimate question to ask: What are you trying to say by wearing those t-shirts on this day?

Click to expand...

That I am an effing American and damn proud of it. Nothing more, nothing less. No where did they say they were offended by the mexican flag, they just chose to represent the USA. There is nothing anyone has a right to be offended by, especially here in this country.

bryann380 said:

As an American, if I want to wear a US flag colored shirt, then I will. I don't care if it's Cinco de Mayo, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa or whatever foreign country holiday is. Celebrate it in your own private way and don't worry about what colors Americans are wearing.

Click to expand...

Kwanzaa is a made up afro-american holiday made up by Americans....


hannukah is a religious holiday and is no more "foreign" than is Christmas.... rof

hazlnut said:

If we can agree that the flag represents something special, an idea that is bigger than all of us, then those holding it or wearing it should be representative of those ideas in some way... and not using the flag to represent an idea or cause that is un-American.

Can we agree on that?

If so, then it is a legitimate question to ask: What are you trying to say by wearing those t-shirts on this day?

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure the kids were saying that despite this being Corona y Limon Day, this is still America so remember that.

I don't see anything un-American about that.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

Read the article. I'm sorry you missed thier interviews where they simply where showing pride in thier nation...

Click to expand...

I'm making an honest attempt to have a discussion with you. I've read your article and a couple others looking for the answer. The boys and their parents say very little. "showing their pride in the their nation..." is an answer anyone carrying/wearing the flag could give. And we agree that is not always the case.

So, in their own words, what statement were they trying to make by coordinating their dress on that day? That's what I'm asking.

They weren't racists, bigots, or anything else you have dishonestly tried to link them to.. they were kids, wearing patriotic colors.

Click to expand...

Is it possible? Answer that. It is possible that these boys resent some of the Mexican-American students at their school for some reason? Then speculating on their motives is not dishonest at all.

And were sent home, because apparently the USA is offensive on fake mexicamerican corona y limon day.

Click to expand...

I agree with the school districts position. Sending them home was overzealous and a bad call on the part of the principal.

That I am an effing American and damn proud of it. Nothing more, nothing less. No where did they say they were offended by the mexican flag, they just chose to represent the USA. There is nothing anyone has a right to be offended by, especially here in this country.

Click to expand...

Now, we're getting somewhere. And, in fairness, like me you are just speculating as to their motives. If their answer is they just 'chose to represent the USA', then I would ask: Why on that day? What is it about Cinco de Mayo and/or how the Mexican-American student celebrate their heritage that compelled you to represent the USA?