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Arab group threatens Belgium with terror attacks

How about turbins with propellers on them? Then we could call them turbines.:popcorn2:
 
spud_meister said:
why would the press bring out muslims that are against it?
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Doh, it's supposed to be their job, to report news and ask leaders what's up in their world?
They're supposed to be seekers of fact and truth.
They are supposed to be professionals.

how about you talk to some muslims about it and get their opinion, rather than what the media tells you
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Because I'm not in the polling or journalism business.

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ludahai said:
Same here. That is why I questioned the 15th century thing... I think they are still in the 7th...
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Actually this argument is BS. People under the Roman civilization in the 2nd century BC were much more advanced than people during the middle age.

Same for the Muslims: during the middle ages, they were much more enlighted and tolerant than Europeans. That's why Jews who fled from Spain (because of the reconquista) settled in North Africa.

These things change, but it's not linear, it's cyclic.
 
bub said:
"oppress religion"...some things should be forbidden when they are contrary to human rights, even when these things are cultural (burqa is not part of Islam). Examples of "cultural" things that are forbidden in Europe are polygamy and excision.
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Well, religion is tradition and culture. There is, however, a difference between religion and true faith. But to have true faith one has to understand his religion's roots and basics. How many Muslims simply do not because of tradition and culture? The same is true for Chrisitians, but there's no frown upon education in the general Christian world.


bub said:
Secondly, Belgium does not oppress any religion. Do you know other countries that fund immams and allows muslim politicians to enter the parliament with a veil (not a burqa...)?
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I didn't say Belgium oppressed anything. I referred to the perspective of those who are denied what they believe is very much a part of their religion.

Why is this sort of thing always an issue in Europe? With 9/11 in our history, this is something that would be addressed with a swiftnesss in America. But we don't have situations where kids are wearing scarves to school or adults wearing burqas in secure areas. Even without a 9/11 on Europe's door step there seems to be a lot of social law coming down on Muslims.
 
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Orion said:
Your resentment for civilians shines through. Need I remind you who it is you serve?
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I serve my Marines, my chain of command, my organization, my SECDEF and my President. No civilian gives me orders though he is full of self-righteous insignificant opinion. I don't like being used by politicians or their legion of sheep. I don't like the ignorance that grips the civilian population in regards to things outside their borders. I don't like that it takes 3,000 civilian American deaths for American civilians to care about exacting revenge by sending a military, which had already been attacked for over a decade without repercussion, over to kill for them (which appears to be far more "moral" of slaughter than deposing one of our Cold War dictators). I don't like that civilians chose to care about "body armor" in 2003 when it was politically viable without a care that no one had "body armor" in the Gulf War, Somalia, or Bosnia (and many other places). I don't like the civilian media, which prays for a chance to catch a military member behaving imperfectly or the results of imperfect operational efforts so that they can cash in. I don't like that the civilian population will feed the media beast by tuning in and insisting that the drama be as wonderful as possible until American Idol comes on.

I can go on.

Orion said:
The deployed military doesn't have to conform to that because war zones have fewer rules, which is obviously what you are accustomed to.
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Oh, the military whether deployed or not cuts through the garbage in its ranks. Wrong is wrong and it doesn't take a lawyer and an abundance of time and money to prove it or allow him to escape his personal responsibility. Such is a civilian perverted twist of social justice.
 
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MSgt said:
Al-Queda is of Arabic origin. More specifically they are made up of Sunni or Sunni loyalists. As was the Tali-ban. As was Saddam Hussein. As is the House of Saud. As is Bashir in Sudan. As is the Baathist Party in Syria. As was the orchestrators of Black September. Etc.

Today's larger terrorist problem are 95% from the Sunni camp. Not since Khomeini (unless you count Hezbollah) can the Shia be targetted as the source of terror tactics.
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The iranian fascist dictatorship of thugs and murderers is behind alot of terrorism the last 30 years...
 
MSgt said:
Yeah, but history is extremely clear on the result of attempting to oppress religion. Whether European states see this or not, for Muslims this is oppression. One can certainly believe in freedom, democracy, Depeche Mode, and Coca~Cola and wear a burqa.

This is something that descendants simply place in the closet eventually.....unless it becomes an object in which their parents and themselves can't make the decision on their own. It becomes a symbol of protest. In the end, religious fanatics don't protest a general rule. They protest what they see as robbing them of their identity or challenging them to re-asses their very souls.
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Then they can choose not to live in belgium. Noone is forcing muslims to stay, in fact, they are more than welcome to leave the West, and I am hopeful they do so expeditiously.
 
bub said:
Actually this argument is BS. People under the Roman civilization in the 2nd century BC were much more advanced than people during the middle age.

Same for the Muslims: during the middle ages, they were much more enlighted and tolerant than Europeans. That's why Jews who fled from Spain (because of the reconquista) settled in North Africa.

These things change, but it's not linear, it's cyclic.
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Since it was mentioned - and continues to be a propagated myth to this day - the muslims in spain did not treat the fleeing jews there much better than christians did. Look up Maimonides to see how well jews were treated by their muslim hosts.
 
MSgt said:
Why is this sort of thing always an issue in Europe? With 9/11 in our history, this is something that would be addressed with a swiftnesss in America. But we don't have situations where kids are wearing scarves to school or adults wearing burqas in secure areas. Even without a 9/11 on Europe's door step there seems to be a lot of social law coming down on Muslims.
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Are you kidding? You have any idea how many muslim-driven terror attacks there have been in europe over the last 15-20 years?

If anything, Europe should have expelled its entire muslim population a while ago.
 
rogerredy said:
Are you kidding? You have any idea how many muslim-driven terror attacks there have been in europe over the last 15-20 years?

If anything, Europe should have expelled its entire muslim population a while ago.
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Do you know how many Communist driven attacks? Nationalism driven attacks Sectarian drive attacks?

By that logic there would be nobody left in Europe at this stage.
 
MSgt said:
Well, religion is tradition and culture. There is, however, a difference between religion and true faith. But to have true faith one has to understand his religion's roots and basics. How many Muslims simply do not because of tradition and culture? The same is true for Chrisitians, but there's no frown upon education in the general Christian world.
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There has been a debate over this here, and even muslims agree that it was not religious. La burqa, un signe sectaire et non religieux, par Dounia Bouzar - LeMonde.fr



But even if it was religious, do you not think that some things (like female excision) should be forbidden because they are against human rights, even if they are written in some old book?

Religion plays an ever smaller role over here, we used to be a very devout country in the past, but now we have legalized gay marriage and even adoption by gay people - that's because it is considered that the most important value is equality (between gays and heteros, and between men and women...and also between Belgians and foreigners, who also have the right to vote). Since we perceive the burqa as a sign of submission, it's normal that we ban it.



Why is this sort of thing always an issue in Europe? With 9/11 in our history, this is something that would be addressed with a swiftnesss in America.
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Well the difference is that you don't have 30 millions of Muslims in the USA. And I'm not sure the picture is so "black and white": wasn't there a huge debate about Obama being Muslim?


there seems to be a lot of social law coming down on Muslims.
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What other laws?
 
rogerredy said:
Are you kidding? You have any idea how many muslim-driven terror attacks there have been in europe over the last 15-20 years?

If anything, Europe should have expelled its entire muslim population a while ago.
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It is not necessarily to expel all the Muslims (and that would be criminal), the majority of them are peaceful. But you can do like the French: you expel the imams who spread hate in their sermons.
 
Alvin T. Grey said:
Do you know how many Communist driven attacks? Nationalism driven attacks Sectarian drive attacks?

By that logic there would be nobody left in Europe at this stage.
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Look up paris bombings in 1995, for example, and the non-stop car burnings in the parisian suburbs.. There is no comparison between the 2.
 
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Mirepoix said:
It is not necessarily to expel all the Muslims (and that would be criminal), the majority of them are peaceful. But you can do like the French: you expel the imams who spread hate in their sermons.
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Not yet, but a few more major attacks, and you will see - just like what armenia did - wholesale deportations of muslims. Cannot happen soon enough.
 
no, some of my muslim students are my finest people, citizens, gorgeous families, saintly, how i adore them

a distinction must be made between those practicing their religions (and earning A's in calculus) and holocaust denying haters and hitmen (and women) going after grannies and little girls in the agora

yet---and here's THE RUB---we patriotic, chaste, observant and faithful americans all are SUFFERING under a regime whose ATTORNEY GENERAL cannot bring himself to utter THE NAME of the ENEMY

RealClearPolitics - Video - Holder Refuses To Use The Term "Radical Islam"

how ya gonna fight a war, let alone DEFEND YOURSELF, when you reconditely REFUSE to RECOGNIZE, ie, acknowledge, the foe?

the same folks REFUSE to enforce federal law on the border, then throw political eggs at the PEOPLE OF ARIZONA who do their job for them

pathetic

what's the govt doing to stop the leak in the gulf, other than pointing fingers at the finger pointers?
 
PHP:
ludahai said:
Sadly true, however... Spanish Netherlands cum Austrian Netherlands cum Belgium ... and most Americans wouldn't know any of them from anything else on a map of Europe..
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Wow... :shock:

How'd you get that past the curse filters?

:rofl



.
 
The Prof said:
no, some of my muslim students are my finest people, citizens, gorgeous families, saintly, how i adore them

a distinction must be made between those practicing their religions (and earning A's in calculus) and holocaust denying haters and hitmen (and women) going after grannies and little girls in the agora
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I'm open to your ideas, but there is a reason why websites like shiachat, Iran Defense Forum - Powered by vBulletin, ummah.com, and so many others I can list that are jam-packed with muslims, mostly arab muslims, living in the West who hate jews, christians, Western democracy, etc., and should be dealt with - but aren't. If you can present a clear methodology of separating these filthy animals from the rest of the flock, let me know...
 
i'm not president, i'm not anything

i've met hundreds of absolutely awesome muslims, i so sincerely admire them, their beautiful lives and values, their families, the way they raise their kids...

i've served them in my math classes, i used to wait on many at table

the kids i often question, where are your people from, tell me about what's going on there

they almost always have family still home

but they generally, just about universally, don't know

the most they can form is some conception like, karzai's no good, he's weak, he's corrupt

or ms bhutto's good but her husband's bad

they're americans

you can't round up people around here, it's unamerican

and politics, played in america, must appear pleasant, upbeat and positive to have any chance of proceeding

my opinion, peace
 
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rogerredy said:
The iranian fascist dictatorship of thugs and murderers is behind alot of terrorism the last 30 years...
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Not true. This is a misconception many have. Iran's claim to fame was Khomieni. It was he that declared the suicide bomber as righteous and perverted the idea of Jihad to extremism. It was he who developed Hezbollah. Since his death, it has been Iran that has funded Hezbollah and used this organization to fuel hatred amongst the Iranians. This pretty much sums it up. Iran has played a minor role in regards to terrorism. They have focused their terrorist tactics to the Middle East and mostly entirely against Israel in the form of Hezbollah.

It has been the Arabs that have perverted Islam since the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood. It was the Arab governments that attacked Israel and used every single religious prescription to do it. It was Qutb who came along later and absolutely defined the roles of "true" Muslims everywhere against a clearly defined "evil" (America)...even though it was the Soviet Union that moved to protect Israel against those Arab governments. The movement to hate America amongst Arabs persisted to grow even as it was the French that took over the role of arms deployment into Israel after the Soviets began arming the Arabs and up to the Suez War where Arabs once again used religious means to aggress Israel. Arabs met Khomeini's radical Shia rhetoric with radical Sunni rhetoric and created extremists to meet extremists. After Khomeini's brief suicide bomber fad wore off for the Shia, it has been the Arabs that have assumed the role and celebrated it up to this very day.

We may have an Iranian problem, but this absolutely does not translate into a Shia problem. What we have is a Sunni Arab problem. It has been this tribe that has wrecked this region since the Ottomans took stewardship of Islam away from the Arabs after the Crusades (though they will blame America exclusively for Europe's colonial border creations). And for half a century it has been their fight with Israel that has leaked out into Europe. Since the Gulf War, it leaked into America's yard. 9/11 was just a kick on the door.

Contrary to popular belief, our problems with this tribe isn't as simple as blaming a dead man in a cave or blaming American foriegn policy. We barely had a foriegn policy in the Middle East when Qutb was preaching about our "evil culture" in the 50s. Everything has been fueled ever since fromthis root. No matter what we do, we will be the identified convenient enemy of Allah for Islamic radicals and their extremists. No matter how many Muslims we save in Kuwait or Bosnia. No matter how many Muslims are free to worship Allah in America. No matter how many successful Muslims are produced in America. No matter how many Muslims across the region was spared the fate of Muslims in the Caucusus under the Soviet Union during the Cold War. No matter how many Muslims have the opportunity of freedom and democracy, which no other nation on earth would have stuck around for to ensure. And no matter how much sin towards all Muslims come from Sunni Arab Muslim hands. We are their God's enemy.
 
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rogerredy said:
Then they can choose not to live in belgium. Noone is forcing muslims to stay, in fact, they are more than welcome to leave the West, and I am hopeful they do so expeditiously.
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Well I'm not going to argue with you on this. Europe's problems with Muslims and others (IRA, etc.) go back further than America's 9/11. Europe's recent history also involves people like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, and the Soviet Union. We have always been spectators in this terrorist/dictator game across the ocean. Europe was and is a convenient locale of which a simple border crossing exists for these radicals and extremists. I don't blame Europe one bit for being more than aware of something that doesn't smell right.

But this is why I have constantly warned that it is Europe that is going to be the "battle ground" for these extremists. They have already tried to take advantage of a French riot to gain ground for the expansion of the Muslim Brotherhood. They promised that they could control the Muslim population for the French government if they legitimized a station for them. This is extortion after the fact. Also, every time a law conflicts with Islamic prescription it makes international news and causes riots and deaht threats.

When it comes to these social laws that seem be exponentially building in which Muslims feel targetted, Europe's got a storm brewing. Sooner or later, even France and Germany will recognize that this has less to do with their locales than it does the oppressed and ignorant source that is the Middle East. These locally groomed radicals and extremists are merely seeking approval from those who preach and encourage elsewhere.
 
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