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Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

Zyphlin said:
That's what I thought the answer is...

So no reef, giving them a Visa is still rewarding them for committing the crime, not forgiving them. They commited a crime and get something others have to wait and get.

Now, that said, once the Federal Government actually shows legitimate efforts at enforcing immigration laws then personally I would be willing at looking at a compromise type bill that protects the border, reforms the immigration process, and deals with what to do with those illegally in this country and a potential path to citizenship.

But not until we start to actually regularly enforce the laws...in part to see realistically what the likelihood is in regards to deportation and the possible economic hit. Right now its all theoritical and I refuse to just say "give them all amnesty because its not possible" when we aren't even attempting to uphold our laws. Once we start upholding them then we can make an educated decision on what to do. Not before.
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Oops, you forgot to wait for my answer. It is all in the other post I made. It is forgiveness since i am reforming immigration law.
 
I'm pro-illegal (and have no problems with the term "illegals").

I'm also someone who disagrees with Arizona's law BUT firmly agrees with their right to pass said law.

I absolutely oppose any and all federal residency laws because I do not agree with the liberal reinterpretation of the word "invader" to include aliens from friendly nations nor do I agree with the Judicial activism in 1875 that granted federal authority over immigration. Thus, I believe that immigration laws are the purview of the States and the States alone.
 
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I guess what I don't understand is why the illegal immigrant issue is a huge deal nowadays. It kind of started during the Bush administration and has been going fairly steady since. Why is illegal immigration suddenly such a huge issue? People have been sneaking across the border for decades. Why is this now a big enough deal to implement laws like these? One would think that there would be far bigger fish to fry, especially in this post-9/11 world. I'm not taking one side of this issue or the other, I'm honestly just curious.
 
rogerredy said:
There already WAS an amnesty, probably before you were born - in 1986 - and yes, I protested that one as well, and after Reagan promised "no more illegals would be tolerated," well, how did that one work out for you?

Second, why do you think "its too expensive" to deport them? Simply bill their nation of origin.

Third, by refusing aid, does that mean we can keep so many hospitals from closing by refusing emergency room aid to those here illegally?

Fourth, can we change the constitution to revoke the citizenship of anchor babies?

Do you support all of that as well?
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lol......no, not before i was born.

yes, i would support a change in the anchor baby law.

i would NOT support denying emergency care to illegals, but i would require hospitals to report such people and let law enforcement deal with them appropriately.

good luck billing a poverty stricken nation, how would you propose we collect?
 
liblady said:
you have no interest in discussing this civilly. smells like......partisan hackery. i need a gas mask.
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Oh, please. Obama and the lefties don't give a crap about these people. This is a thinly veiled attempt to gain a voting base in conservative districts like Arizona, Texas, southern California, etc.

This is so simple in concept. Deport these people immediately and enforce the damn law as it is. There really shouldn't be an issue here.
 
reefedjib said:
I do not hold it against immigrants that they are here illegally. We obviously have the jobs and need the labor or they wouldn't come here. We are the hypocrites for wanting the one without allowing for the other. We have these demands for labor and yet we have an unrealistic immigration strategy.
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All well and good, even though I disagree with the notion of "we" are hypocrites. You're talking far to broad on that one. There are individuals perhaps, but I do not think as a country. Sadly though you don't see many polls going "If you could expell every illegal in this country but the cost of goods and serves would go up 2%-5% would you do it".

So what I would like to see is the following:
  • Create a visa-on-demand program at the border. If someone shows up and passes a terrorist check, give them a 1 year visa automatically.
  • Provide instructions to get a green card once here with an on-demand visa
  • Provide all illegal immigrants with an on-demand visa.
  • If an illegal immigrant is caught in a felony, make em do the time then deport them
  • If a visa holder or green card holder commits a felony, also make em do the time then deport them
  • Legalize drugs - this should shutdown border smuggling
  • Don't worry about the border - this country is not a prison.
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Ah, well, I disagree with a fair bit of this but yeah, that would then be forgiveness. That said, you're not saying "forgive their crimes" you're saying "Change massive amounts of laws and then forgive their crimes".

Two VERY seperate things.

Simply saying to forgive their crime and give them a visa implies under the current law, and that would be rewarding them.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I guess what I don't understand is why the illegal immigrant issue is a huge deal nowadays. It kind of started during the Bush administration and has been going fairly steady since. Why is illegal immigration suddenly such a huge issue? People have been sneaking across the border for decades. Why is this now a big enough deal to implement laws like these? One would think that there would be far bigger fish to fry, especially in this post-9/11 world. I'm not taking one side of this issue or the other, I'm honestly just curious.
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It might be the 20,000,000 of them currently in this country pumping out 6 to 10 kids per family at a cost of billions per year...... but don't quote me on that.
 
Tucker Case said:
I do not agree with the liberal reinterpretation of the word "invader" to include aliens from friendly nations
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This friendly nation is being run solely by drug lords and the most vicious gangs in the Americas. Ninety percent of this country's drug problem comes across this border.
 
rogerredy said:
I'm going to go WAY off-topic to cement your point further - why do so many liberals complain about jews who moved form europe and/or expelled from arab countries to israel - BUT BUT BUT - make every effort to defend mexicans moving to the US for jobs?

So in pseudo-liberal (tiny) minds, its ok for mexicans to move to the US in large numbers, refusing to assimilate, and try to take over, for economic reasons - BUT BUT BUT - it isn't ok for jews to have moved to israel to avoid being killed?

Damn those liberal hypocracies, they seem to grow on trees these days...but you are correct, to liberals, you only need to defend the constitution when the NY Times says you should... :roll:
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i challenge you to prove your assertion that liberals believe what you just posted. by the way, oh great minded conservative, what does "hypocracy" mean?
 
Crunch said:
It might be the 20,000,000 of them currently in this country pumping out 6 to 10 kids per family at a cost of billions per year...... but don't quote me on that.
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Okay, and I accept that. But that has also been happening for a long time. So, why now? It seems rather odd to me that all of this immigration stuff seemed to pop up when a lot of people were having nationalist fever in this country. Perhaps I'm just paranoid.
 
The article should read:


"Illegal aliens flee with thier 10 anchor babies in fear of federal law being enforced.
 
liblady said:
i am talking about a one time amnesty, in combination with stern enforcement of laws already in place.
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As another poster out that has already been tried before. INstead of 3 million illegals we now have 12-20 million plus illegals waiting their turn for amnesty. Which is one of the reasons other than not wanting to reward trespassers/invaders the McCain/Kennedy/Bush amnesty failed. How can they be trusted to do stern enforcement when they don't even want to do regular enforcement? They put the national guard on the border to put up fence and act as spotters for border patrol with no authority to detain,prevent or stop illegal crossing, they were basically paid to do what the Minutemen were already doing for free. That old saying comes to mind "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Basically only someone who wants amnesty and someone who is an idiot would want another so called immigration reform compromise.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Okay, and I accept that. But that has also been happening for a long time. So, why now? It seems rather odd to me that all of this immigration stuff seemed to pop up when a lot of people were having nationalist fever in this country. Perhaps I'm just paranoid.
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I think it's more economic than nationalist. I've seen it coming for a long time.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I guess what I don't understand is why the illegal immigrant issue is a huge deal nowadays. It kind of started during the Bush administration and has been going fairly steady since. Why is illegal immigration suddenly such a huge issue? People have been sneaking across the border for decades. Why is this now a big enough deal to implement laws like these? One would think that there would be far bigger fish to fry, especially in this post-9/11 world. I'm not taking one side of this issue or the other, I'm honestly just curious.
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There has to be a breaking point, and we've reached it. And, I'm sure 911 and security have their place in it as well. I know it does with me. It's in part due to 911 that I want stricter border security and immigration laws enforced. We monitor ships and planes, but not our huge, wide open southern border. We have terrorist watch lists, but who keeps tracks of the millions creeping into the country unnoticed?

Economics is part of the issue, security is another part of it.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I guess what I don't understand is why the illegal immigrant issue is a huge deal nowadays. It kind of started during the Bush administration and has been going fairly steady since. Why is illegal immigration suddenly such a huge issue? People have been sneaking across the border for decades. Why is this now a big enough deal to implement laws like these? One would think that there would be far bigger fish to fry, especially in this post-9/11 world. I'm not taking one side of this issue or the other, I'm honestly just curious.
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think germans blaming jews for their economic decline. if the economy was in good shape, the waling would subside.
 
Erod said:
This friendly nation is being run solely by drug lords and the most vicious gangs in the Americas. Ninety percent of this country's drug problem comes across this border.
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We are not at war with Mexico and have friendly diplomatic relations with them.
 
Erod said:
This friendly nation is being run solely by drug lords and the most vicious gangs in the Americas. Ninety percent of this country's drug problem comes across this border.
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100% of this nation's drug problems come from Americans with so little self-regard that they smoke/inject/shove illegal drugs up their noses.
 
Zyphlin said:
All well and good, even though I disagree with the notion of "we" are hypocrites. You're talking far to broad on that one. There are individuals perhaps, but I do not think as a country. Sadly though you don't see many polls going "If you could expell every illegal in this country but the cost of goods and serves would go up 2%-5% would you do it".
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Well, I commonly use "we" to describe the nation and it's policies. But I take your point.

That would be a good poll question...perhaps as high as 10% for food.



Ah, well, I disagree with a fair bit of this but yeah, that would then be forgiveness. That said, you're not saying "forgive their crimes" you're saying "Change massive amounts of laws and then forgive their crimes".

Two VERY seperate things.

Simply saying to forgive their crime and give them a visa implies under the current law, and that would be rewarding them.
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I am very curious. What do you disagree with? An unsecured border? How can we afford to secure it? Understaffed INS? How can we afford to staff it? Visa-on-demand? Please go into a little detail.

I am saying "Change massive amounts of laws and then forgive their crimes". It would be insane to give amnesty without changing our policy as we would just refill the bucket with more.
 
reefedjib said:
They haven't stolen anything of value by coming here.
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Seeing they are here illegally everything they use they stole.Jobs, tax payer funded services, school, hospital visits and so on.

It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to say that we will deport all the illegal immigrants in this country.
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When you consider operation wetback and many other accomplishments in the past it is possible to deport every illegal. Deportation is not the only solution nor did I ever claim it was the only solution. The only thing that is not a solution is amnesty or some form of it. Because it encourages more illegal immigration.
 
jamesrage said:
Seeing they are here illegally everything they use they stole.Jobs, tax payer funded services, school, hospital visits and so on.



When you consider operation wetback and many other accomplishments in the past it is possible to deport every illegal. Deportation is not the only solution nor did I ever claim it was the only solution. The only thing that is not a solution is amnesty or some form of it. Because it encourages more illegal immigration.
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Hell as is proven by the AZ bill, we don't have to deport all of them. Many of them will leave on their own!;)
 
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