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Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

Where are you getting that info regarding the claiming 9 dependents?

My wife (restaraunt) and my brother in law (construction) both have had employees that have done this. I am getting ready to leave, so I'll have to find a link for you later.
 
My wife (restaraunt) and my brother in law (construction) both have had employees that have done this. I am getting ready to leave, so I'll have to find a link for you later.

I'm sure some do, but the claim you made was essentially that they all do, which I know for a fact is not true.

Also, Medicare and social security would still be withheld which is more than "hardly anything".
 
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illegal immigrants provide a source of cheap labor for many farms and businesses. If you get rid of this labor suddenly, there will be consequences, good, bad or both. For example: if farmers have to pay their help more, they will have to charge more for their products which means that stores will have to charge more. If a restaurant has to pay its employees more, they will have to charge more for the food. Those two examples are just the tip of the iceberg. Its not as easy as mass deportations. You have to take into account the impact this has on businesses and the economy.

Oh no apples will cost 10 dollars a pound a tomato will 10 dollars a piece.(sarcasm)

CNN.com - Transcripts
TUCKER: So what if wages rose and conditions improved dramatically? Would consumers have to dig a lot deeper into their pocket to pay for their fruits and vegetables?

The simple, bottom-line answer is no. In fact, wages could rise by 40 percent, according to one study, rising above the poverty level. And the average food bill for fresh fruits and vegetables would increase by less than $10 a year.

PROF. PHIL MARTIN, UNIV. OF CALIF. DAVIS: The important thing for Americans to understand is that they don't spend much on fresh fruits and vegetables, and farmers don't get very much of the retail dollar. On a $1 head of lettuce, the farmer gets about 18 cents, and the cost of wages and benefits is about six cents.

TUCKER: The average American family spends $370 on fresh fruits and veggies. Of that, only $65 goes to the farmer. Farm workers get $22 of the farmer's share. The remaining $305 is split up by the companies which transport the food, wholesalers, marketers, and grocery stores.


The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices
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More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.[/QUOTE]
 
But...!! Who's going to make homemade tortillas for me the next time I visit Houston and want to eat at Ninfas on Navigation???

Can't we keep SOME of them?

You gonna adopt some out of your own pocket?:2razz:
 
The Mexicans that I have known complain loudly against their horribly corrupt government and Police forces at all levels. It seems as though they are forced to live like Iraqis under Saddam Hussein.

Let's build a massive wall on the north side of the Panama Canal. Then we can depose of the current governments and add 7 or 8 more states to the US.

Operation Mexican Freedom.

The wall at the canal would be much cheaper to build.
 
The Mexicans that I have known complain loudly against their horribly corrupt government and Police forces at all levels. It seems as though they are forced to live like Iraqis under Saddam Hussein.

Let's build a massive wall on the north side of the Panama Canal. Then we can depose of the current governments and add 7 or 8 more states to the US.

Operation Mexican Freedom.

The wall at the canal would be much cheaper to build.

Sounds like a good plan to me, but I'd build the wall on the south side of the canal.
 
Sounds like a good plan to me, but I'd build the wall on the south side of the canal.

Back in Teddy Roosevelt's day, we could have gotten away with that. We should have taken all the islands in the Caribbean as well...
 
Back in Teddy Roosevelt's day, we could have gotten away with that. We should have taken all the islands in the Caribbean as well...

Absolutely... if we had we wouldn't need passports get some sun today.
 
The Mexicans that I have known complain loudly against their horribly corrupt government and Police forces at all levels. It seems as though they are forced to live like Iraqis under Saddam Hussein.

Let's build a massive wall on the north side of the Panama Canal. Then we can depose of the current governments and add 7 or 8 more states to the US.

Operation Mexican Freedom.

The wall at the canal would be much cheaper to build.

Brilliant Idea. It makes so much sense because Mexico is just like Iraq, what with its dictator in control who killed thousands of citizens and had mass burial sites around the country. And since like Iraq it has countles U.N. security council violations, almost all of which theoritically could've called for force it makes even more sense. Plus because we all know that Mexico is a state sponsor of terror abroad it fits right in with the War On Terror.

Thank you Mickey! I never realized how Mexico is just like Iraq before, we definitely should be invading it.

:roll:
 
And they still don't have to determine whether they are legitimate or not. Fake ID's aren't that hard to get.
Fake ID's that match the state ones here are. In fact the state just changed them to a new ID a few months ago. Replacing an ID that was just issued a couple of years ago for the same reasons. All to avoid just what you are talking about. They use holograms and they have to scan with all encoded data as well. Ain't yet seen the fake ID maker at a flea market that can do that, and getting a hold of a fake valid social security card is not easy either. But if someone has the money and resources I'm sure they can secure fake ID's and maybe even get away with using them. Which addresses my initial comments how? Oh it does not. Yellow lawns, green polls and a supposed short fall in fast food workers are hardly very good reasons not to address illegal immigration.:roll:
 
Brilliant Idea. It makes so much sense because Mexico is just like Iraq, what with its dictator in control who killed thousands of citizens and had mass burial sites around the country. And since like Iraq it has countles U.N. security council violations, almost all of which theoritically could've called for force it makes even more sense. Plus because we all know that Mexico is a state sponsor of terror abroad it fits right in with the War On Terror.

Thank you Mickey! I never realized how Mexico is just like Iraq before, we definitely should be invading it.

:roll:
Invade? no...
annex, yes, but only after the citizens vote their approval, and I bet a large percentage of them would...
 
Outstanding, now we need to enact a federal law similar to the Arizona law and they will leave the country, problem solved.

It is already against federal law to be in the United States....ummm..."illegally".

What we need are Americans in the political offices currently held by the traitors who refuse to enforce these laws.
 
Invade? no...
annex, yes, but only after the citizens vote their approval, and I bet a large percentage of them would...
It would be the largest voter turnout in Mexico's history. The YES votes would carry by a landslide.
 
I'm sure some do, but the claim you made was essentially that they all do, which I know for a fact is not true.

Also, Medicare and social security would still be withheld which is more than "hardly anything".

I didn't mean to imply that they all do. I'm sure it sounded that way though. My bad.
 
I didn't mean to imply that they all do. I'm sure it sounded that way though. My bad.

Ah, then we're not really in disagreement.

Even if the majority did claim 9 dependents, their income is low enough on average that they wouldn't realy pay anything in income taxes anyway (average household income of $27,400 with an average of two dependents).

So in essence, if you took a sample of 200 people, 100 of them illegals, 100 of them citizens and looked at the amount of income taxes paid with both groups averaging $27,400 per household and 2 dependents, the illegal sample would actually have a higher amount of income tax paid after returns are filed even if only 25% of them used fake SS numbers without claiming 9 dependents. This is because none of their returns would be filed, leaving all of the income taxes paid in the system. Almost every one of the citizens would file in order to receive their returns, meaning very little (if any) of the income tax paid would actually remain in the system.

On top of that, the average drain on resources associated between the two groups would be much higher for the citizens (about double).

The study cited by Cholla shows that the average federal fiscal cost of an illegal household was about 54% less than that of a legal household.

The amount towards SS and medicare that the legal group paid would be greater due to the fact that a large proportion of the illegal group would be getting paid under the table, but the illegals far lower drain on the system and inability to access the SS funds in the future more than compensates for this difference.

Which is why I support and promote the deportation of all natural-born citizens who fit the same educational and skill criteria as illegals do on average and replacing them with illegals. It would be a boon to the economy.

On top of that, at least the illegal has done something to earn their place in America, even if it is illegal. Whereas the natural-born citizen usually hasn't done anything to earn their place. For the most part, those citizens who have done something to earn their place (such as military service) tend to fall outside the criteria.

On top of that, the citizens are clearly documented and would be easy to round up and deport.
 
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Can anyone get a Visa at any time or is there a waiting list and process?

If its the former, then sure, that's forgiving.

If its the latter, then nope...again...you're rewarding their breaking of the law by allowing them to skip the process and the line ahead of others doing it the right way.

I know here in Mexico to get a Visa for the US you have to have been employeed at the same job for over 2 years, own your own home, and have money in the bank.

It is not easy to get a visa for the US.
 
This friendly nation is being run solely by drug lords and the most vicious gangs in the Americas. Ninety percent of this country's drug problem comes across this border.

Not true at all.

The country is not being run by the cartels, just a few towns have violence problems.

The central government is not run by them.

Where do you get your information?
 
I know here in Mexico to get a Visa for the US you have to have been employeed at the same job for over 2 years, own your own home, and have money in the bank.

It is not easy to get a visa for the US.

Depends on the type of Visa
 
I can tell you that illegals won't do backbreaking labor for 5 bucks either, 10 bucks yes

I was just talking to a friend of mine about this.

I was told 2 stories.

1 - An owner of a landscaping company went to where the day laborers were and tried to hire a few for a day job. The men said they would work for no less than $15.00 per hour. He offered $10.00, all under the table of course, and they refused.

2 - My friends father was moving to a new apartment and needed help. He is 75 years old and couldn't move anything. The day laborers demanded no less than $20.00 per hour to do the work. Obviously he told them no deal. A moving company would charge less and be insured.

These stories about illegals being taken advantage of is crap.

They won't work for little money.
 
I can't imagine hiring a stranger, picked up off the street, to do work at my home! Someone with a wide network of transient buddies.

And people worry about selling stuff on Craigslist... :rolleyes:
 
First they reseed your lawn, all the while casing out your home and its occupants. Next week, voila, there's a break in.

Real smart to pick up strangers with no documentation or references to your house. ;)
 
Where are you getting that 1/4 amount from?

Also, using false SS numbers usually means that they are paying taxes.

And what percentage do you believe are actually paid using a fake SS#?

Most are not paid above the table, and are responsible for huge costs for hospitals and schools. The cost to the overall economy and decrease in standard of living due to the illegal aliens is enormous, they are a clear net loss for the US.
 
So in essence, if you took a sample of 200 people, 100 of them illegals, 100 of them citizens and looked at the amount of income taxes paid with both groups averaging $27,400 per household and 2 dependents, the illegal sample would actually have a higher amount of income tax paid after returns are filed even if only 25% of them used fake SS numbers without claiming 9 dependents. This is because none of their returns would be filed, leaving all of the income taxes paid in the system. Almost every one of the citizens would file in order to receive their returns, meaning very little (if any) of the income tax paid would actually remain in the system.

This paragraph makes zero sense. If you are a W2, then your income taxes are ALREADY withheld, it doesn't matter if you file a return.

Further, more claimed dependents on W2 wages means less taxes taken out, so the illegals with 9 dependents claimed pay less in taxes.

And this claim does nothing to address that most illegals are NOT paid on the books, with large proportions of their wages sent out of the US.
 
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The amount towards SS and medicare that the legal group paid would be greater due to the fact that a large proportion of the illegal group would be getting paid under the table, but the illegals far lower drain on the system and inability to access the SS funds in the future more than compensates for this difference.

This paragraph also doesn't make sense since the medical costs of illegals' use of hospitals is far greater than the legals' use of general practitioners.

Also, the medicare deduction is far larger than that for social security, so your other claim is also wrong.
 
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