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Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

Forgiving them is giving them a chance to leave before they're put in prison, or sending them back off to their home country rather than imprisoning them.

Making them a citizen, with all the rights there of, is not forgiving...that's rewarding. That's giving them something they didn't have.

Screw you for being smarter and more eloquent than me - this is THE BEST post I've seen in this forum...which I was less than thrilled with to say the least until recently. Posts like this make it worth hanging around a while longer.
 
Seriously folks, there are supposedly gonna be too many green pools and yellow lawns! Fast food won't be "fast" anymore! Can we really afford to enforce our immigration laws like the rest of the world does? Oh the HORROR!
 
Think about that phrase for just a moment.

How many "employed illegals" are living in Canada? Russia? England? Mexico, for that matter?
what are you talking about?
 
Why amnesty when states can enact and enforce anti-illegal immigration laws on the state level? If sanctuary states don't change then all the illegals will flood to those states. It would be amusing to see how California and Newyork do with most of the 12-20 million plus illegals,especially seeing how the cost of living in those states is absurdly high.
i am talking about a one time amnesty, in combination with stern enforcement of laws already in place.
 
Their is a waiting time, and no they can't get a visa at any time they can however be denied a visa anytime. Some people may apply for a visa about 5- 20 times in one year to get a visa. Whit the Visa cards been up to $236.00 most people in Mexico can't even afford that. TO get the green card it will take years to get, or months. USCIS - Green Card Processes and Procedures

This is why I think that we need to make a little bit more easier for them to get a green card

That's what I thought the answer is...

So no reef, giving them a Visa is still rewarding them for committing the crime, not forgiving them. They commited a crime and get something others have to wait and get.

Now, that said, once the Federal Government actually shows legitimate efforts at enforcing immigration laws then personally I would be willing at looking at a compromise type bill that protects the border, reforms the immigration process, and deals with what to do with those illegally in this country and a potential path to citizenship.

But not until we start to actually regularly enforce the laws...in part to see realistically what the likelihood is in regards to deportation and the possible economic hit. Right now its all theoritical and I refuse to just say "give them all amnesty because its not possible" when we aren't even attempting to uphold our laws. Once we start upholding them then we can make an educated decision on what to do. Not before.
 
Seriously folks, there are supposedly gonna be too many green pools and yellow lawns! Fast food won't be "fast" anymore! Can we really afford to enforce our immigration laws like the rest of the world does? Oh the HORROR!

But...!! Who's going to make homemade tortillas for me the next time I visit Houston and want to eat at Ninfas on Navigation???

Can't we keep SOME of them?
 
i am talking about a one time amnesty, in combination with stern enforcement of laws already in place.

Which was supposed to be the case after the last "one time amnesty".

What happened? Amnesty, but no stern enforcement, and thus even MORE illegals flood in and we have the same problem only larger now.

A combination of some kind in theory would be great, but in practice is unlikely based on history. You want amnesty, or even a path to citizenship...then we need to see stern enforcement of laws already in place done FIRST, and beefed up protection at the borders with immigration reform coming second along with a path to citizenship. This would assures a good chance we will enforce the laws sternly even after amnesty and it ensures that the likelihood of people coming in after the amnesty is less.
 
So you support rewarding people who break the law.
very simplistic. no, i don't. i support a one time amnesty in combination with enforcing current laws, to the maximum. it's too expensive to try to round up all illegals and deport them, why not absorb contributors and banish those without jobs?

then, make it an offesne that carries automatic jail time for those who hire illegals, and make any aid to illegals impossible to get. then we'd see how many would cross the border.
 
No, forgiving them for entering illegally by giving them a visa and allowing them to stay and work. They can work their way to green card and citizenship like the rest of the immigrants.

Are you kidding me? As smart as Zyp's post is, this is simply beyond stupidity.

#1, you have massive numbers of poor people all over the country - philly, new orleans, etc,. that cannot find work. If I was poor and black and unable to find a job, any job that pays a salary - which is the case for most of the black population in this nation - I'd start shooting ANY politician that supported allowing immigrants of any kind in, illegal or not. Its the poor blacks in this country who've born the burden of illegal alien and much-too-high legal immigration for far too long - the very people that the so-called liberals once defended.

#2- clearly you like most of the fake liberal/internet teens here weren't even born yet when people like me were out protesting the tragic Reagan '86 amnesty bill, which of course only acted like a magnet to draw in millions more illegals - just as every honest adult back then knew it would.

Rewarding criminal behaviour accomplishes one thing only - MORE of the same.

All illegals should be deported immediately, and all employers found to be hiring them should be fined $10,000 each. If some industries try to get around this by moving production offshore, tax the shyte out of them to make up for the difference in lower wages paid.

This will eventually, through a massive increase in prices, force companies to start increasing the typical salaries paid to the general employed staff - not just to the top executives making 950 times what the average employee makes.

Given that the vast majority of the middle class has not had a wage increase in decades - this would be the first step towards balancing wages overall. No more BS $60 million paydays for CEOs...
 
Which was supposed to be the case after the last "one time amnesty".

What happened? Amnesty, but no stern enforcement, and thus even MORE illegals flood in and we have the same problem only larger now.

A combination of some kind in theory would be great, but in practice is unlikely based on history. You want amnesty, or even a path to citizenship...then we need to see stern enforcement of laws already in place done FIRST, and beefed up protection at the borders with immigration reform coming second along with a path to citizenship. This would assures a good chance we will enforce the laws sternly even after amnesty and it ensures that the likelihood of people coming in after the amnesty is less.
agreed. we have to enforce our laws, but a massive deportation is too expensive. and when i say laws, i mean jail time for those who hire illegals, in combination with refusing gov't aid for illegals.
 
Seriously folks, there are supposedly gonna be too many green pools and yellow lawns! Fast food won't be "fast" anymore! Can we really afford to enforce our immigration laws like the rest of the world does? Oh the HORROR!

What is the most hilarious is watching Mexico rail about the US and particularly AZ with this new law - while treating all and ANY illegals form latin/south america it catches worse than dirt.

Mexico arrests any illegal alien it catches immedately, and shortly deports them after rather harsh treatment.

They do not want anyone competing with them for the money shipped home from Gringoland...
 
agreed. we have to enforce our laws, but a massive deportation is too expensive. and when i say laws, i mean jail time for those who hire illegals, in combination with refusing gov't aid for illegals.

I agree with enforcing the laws, but disagree about deportation. We do not know this, because we aren't even trying. Even more, while it may be pricey, it may be worth it based on the very principles associated with our country. I always hear liberals talking about how horrible the Patriot Act is or removing miranda rights for terrorist is, saying that no amount of saved lives justifies vilating our principles of rights. Yet we're supposed to put a monitary value on the principle of The Rule of Law? Why the selective care for our principles in this country? Why is it not okay to ignore the rule of law to say, save 100 lives, but it is okay to ignore the rule of law to save $10 million dollars?

I'm not saying we definitely 100% need deportation, but I think we need to enforce the current laws on the books sternly and to their fullest...including laws regarding deportation...for a number of months to have a legitimate baseline of immigration and illegal immigration in our country at that point to THEN decide what changes to immigration policy, border security, and potential for amnesty/path to citizenship needs to be done.
 
agreed. we have to enforce our laws, but a massive deportation is too expensive. and when i say laws, i mean jail time for those who hire illegals, in combination with refusing gov't aid for illegals.

There already WAS an amnesty, probably before you were born - in 1986 - and yes, I protested that one as well, and after Reagan promised "no more illegals would be tolerated," well, how did that one work out for you?

Second, why do you think "its too expensive" to deport them? Simply bill their nation of origin.

Third, by refusing aid, does that mean we can keep so many hospitals from closing by refusing emergency room aid to those here illegally?

Fourth, can we change the constitution to revoke the citizenship of anchor babies?

Do you support all of that as well?
 
Forgiving them, yes.

Will I be forgiven for breaking State and Federal laws? Or will I get prosecuted and tossed in jail?

BTW.. they aren't illegal immigrants, they are illegal aliens. Knock off the PC bull **** and learn to call a turd a turd. :roll:
 
But...!! Who's going to make homemade tortillas for me the next time I visit Houston and want to eat at Ninfas on Navigation???

Can't we keep SOME of them?
As none of them actually work there, no. Poor Catz, you really should get out more often. Tell you what, you tool your way down to the original Ninfa's, shout as loud as you can, ICE Task Force, Immigration Officer, and watch as nobody blinks an eye. As that is the only Ninfa's still owned by the Ninfa family, you can stutter step to any of the corporate Ninfa's restaurants and shout the same thing, and get the same response.

Great, but truly hollow, non point. :rofl
 
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what are you talking about?

You used a ridiculous term. "Employed illegals." You make it sound like some sort of accomplishment. You want to reward people for successfully dodging our system by granting them legal status.

My point was, only in this country would we consider such a ridiculous concept. You won't see that play out anywhere else.
 
I always hear liberals talking about how horrible the Patriot Act is or removing miranda rights for terrorist is, saying that no amount of saved lives justifies vilating our principles of rights. Yet we're supposed to put a monitary value on the principle of The Rule of Law? Why the selective care for our principles in this country? Why is it not okay to ignore the rule of law to say, save 100 lives, but it is okay to ignore the rule of law to save $10 million dollars?

I'm going to go WAY off-topic to cement your point further - why do so many liberals complain about jews who moved form europe and/or expelled from arab countries to israel - BUT BUT BUT - make every effort to defend mexicans moving to the US for jobs?

So in pseudo-liberal (tiny) minds, its ok for mexicans to move to the US in large numbers, refusing to assimilate, and try to take over, for economic reasons - BUT BUT BUT - it isn't ok for jews to have moved to israel to avoid being killed?

Damn those liberal hypocracies, they seem to grow on trees these days...but you are correct, to liberals, you only need to defend the constitution when the NY Times says you should... :roll:
 
very simplistic. no, i don't. i support a one time amnesty in combination with enforcing current laws, to the maximum.

Which, not coincidentally, should sway many an election your way in the future. Obama would agree.

This is so transparent.
 
Can anyone get a Visa at any time or is there a waiting list and process?

If its the former, then sure, that's forgiving.

If its the latter, then nope...again...you're rewarding their breaking of the law by allowing them to skip the process and the line ahead of others doing it the right way.

I do not hold it against immigrants that they are here illegally. We obviously have the jobs and need the labor or they wouldn't come here. We are the hypocrites for wanting the one without allowing for the other. We have these demands for labor and yet we have an unrealistic immigration strategy.

So what I would like to see is the following:
  • Create a visa-on-demand program at the border. If someone shows up and passes a terrorist check, give them a 1 year visa automatically.
  • Provide instructions to get a green card once here with an on-demand visa
  • Provide all illegal immigrants with an on-demand visa.
  • If an illegal immigrant is caught in a felony, make em do the time then deport them
  • If a visa holder or green card holder commits a felony, also make em do the time then deport them
  • Legalize drugs - this should shutdown border smuggling
  • Don't worry about the border - this country is not a prison.
 
Isn't that like letting a shoplifter keep a walkman that he shoplifted? You are basically suggesting that trespassers/invaders should be rewarded by being allowed to stay in this country. Maybe next you will suggest we forgive bank robbers by letting them keep the loot they stole.

They haven't stolen anything of value by coming here.

It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to say that we will deport all the illegal immigrants in this country.
 
your last paragraph makes sense, but why did you feel it necessary to bring political bent into this?
 
You used a ridiculous term. "Employed illegals." You make it sound like some sort of accomplishment. You want to reward people for successfully dodging our system by granting them legal status.

My point was, only in this country would we consider such a ridiculous concept. You won't see that play out anywhere else.
really, what would you call illegals who are employed?
 
Which, not coincidentally, should sway many an election your way in the future. Obama would agree.

This is so transparent.
you have no interest in discussing this civilly. smells like......partisan hackery. i need a gas mask.
 
really, what would you call illegals who are employed?

Illegal aliens...... job stealing illegal aliens...... job stealing, law breaking illegal aliens. What do you call someone that breaks a law?
 
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