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Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

Jerry said:
You should be free to do it anywhere on the globe.

It's what we call a "human right", a product of universal morality.

While the moral relativist must concede that stoning women for being raped is acceptable if that's what that society wants, the moral universalist understands that there is a basic human decency which all humans should be held to, that rape is always wrong and so is oppressing free speech and ideas.

It doesn't matter what country this story is in, in fact if we were 200 years in the future it wouldn't matter if this story were taking place on a space station, martian settlement or whatever. Free speech is a basic human right and it should be defended to the death.
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then why ain't you invading the UK or Australia to fight for free speech, we're sorely lacking it here in Oz, come and stand up for this universal human right for us.
 
Jerry said:
You should be free to do it anywhere on the globe.

It's what we call a "human right", a product of universal morality.

While the moral relativist must concede that stoning women for being raped is acceptable if that's what that society wants, the moral universalist understands that there is a basic human decency which all humans should be held to, that rape is always wrong and so is oppressing free speech and ideas.

It doesn't matter what country this story is in, in fact if we were 200 years in the future it wouldn't matter if this story were taking place on a space station, martian settlement or whatever. Free speech is a basic human right and it should be defended to the death.
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All a moral universalist is is a moral relativist who has fooled themselves into thinking that their morals are absolute and apply to every person and every culture. You are still a relativist and had you been born into a different culture you would have different beliefs and different morals. The only difference is you hold every culture to the same standard that you hold yourself. That is neither good nor bad. It is simply how you choose to view the world.
 
Andalublue said:
Personally I've always thought that religions that have to tout/evangelize/sell/convert to their faith are lacking a certain confidence in it.
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Why? Conversion of others to the faith is a way to grow said faith, and a way to save souls thru converting peopel to your religion. Seems pretty natural to me. One of the means to that end is to put your beliefs out in public for people to hear, so that they might want to become involved.

They lack the faith that it is THE faith and hence indulge in proselytising in order to convince themselves...
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This is unsupportable and is nothing but a lackluster attempt to bash those that do such things.
 
Goobieman said:
And again... 'one major tenet' denotes that there are a number of minor tenets.

If you follow ALL of the tenets, you are Christian.
If not, you are not. Its really that simple.
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You are so full of yourself. You refuse to list the tenets of Christianity, therefore I doubt you even know them.

I will state this clearly.

The only tenet of Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah.

There is no equivocation in that statement. Prove me wrong that there is any other tenet necessary to being a Christian.
 
spud_meister said:
then why ain't you invading the UK or Australia to fight for free speech, we're sorely lacking it here in Oz, come and stand up for this universal human right for us.
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lol invade with what? My 1982 Chevy Citation? :rofl
 
Goobieman said:
And again... 'one major tenet' denotes that there are a number of minor tenets.

If you follow ALL of the tenets, you are Christian.
If not, you are not. Its really that simple.
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Show us where the tenet of following Christianity is thinking homosexuality is a sin.
 
CriticalThought said:
You are so full of yourself.
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With good reason.
:mrgreen:
You refuse to list the tenets of Christianity, therefore I doubt you even know them.
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I have made no claim whatsoever as to any of the tenets as my position does ny require me to do so; I have claimed only that if you do not follow all of those tenets, whatever they are, you are not a Christian. The trurh of this is self-evident.

If YOU want to argue that there is only one single tenet on Christiantiy, that's up to you -- I wish you luck in your effort -- but thus far, you have not done so; you have argued that Christianity has one major and, necessaryto your statements, a number of other tenets.

My response to that is that if you do not follow all those tenets, whatever they are, then you are not a Christian. This is an undeniable truth.

I will state this clearly.
The only tenet of Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah.
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Prove this.
Remember that the emphasis in the above statement is yours.
 
Goobieman said:
Prove this.
Remember that the emphasis in the above statement is yours.
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The burden of proof is on you. You are the one contesting the point. I simply have made a statement of a subjective belief system. Whether or not the statement is correct depends upon the argument that can be made. Your refusal to make an argument one way or another betrays your lack of knowledge in this area.
 
Goobieman said:
And again... 'one major tenet' denotes that there are a number of minor tenets.

If you follow ALL of the tenets, you are Christian.
If not, you are not. Its really that simple.
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Feel free to list ALL of the tenets for us. I was only aware of one.

John 3:16 "For god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

What's the 1 tenet? Belief in the only-begotten Son, sent by God.

Does John 3:17 mention something about hating on gays?
 
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Goobieman said:
You claimed that there is but one tenet. Burden is on you.
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Very well. I'll play your damn equivocation game. I'll revise my earlier statement and argue there are two tenets to being a Christian.

The first is to accept Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Messiah. This is a necessity, for anything else he would say would be meaningless otherwise. The second was the commandment for his followers so that anyone may know that they are his and his alone...

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Thus a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior, while at the same time, loving other Christians unconditionally no matter what they believe or how they behave.

There is my argument of the Christian belief system. It's more than you have provided in this entire thread.
 
CriticalThought said:
Very well. I'll play your damn equivocation game
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There's no equivocation here at all -- you have been apparently trying to argue that there is just one single tenet of Christianity and then argue that, regardless of anything else, if you follow that one tenet, you are a Christian.. Its up to you to prove your 'one tenet' claim for that argument to be sound.

]I'll revise my earlier statement and argue there are two tenets to being a Christian.
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:rofl
Already changing your claim. How droll.
How many more times do you plan to do that?

Thus a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior, while at the same time, loving other Christians unconditionally no matter what they believe or how they behave.
There is my argument of the Christian belief system.
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Great. Prove this to be true.
 
Goobieman said:
There's no equivocation here at all -- you have been apparently trying to argue that there is just one single tenet of Christianity and then argue that, regardless of anything else, if you follow that one tenet, you are a Christian.. Its up to you to prove your 'one tenet' claim for that argument to be sound.


:rofl
Already changing your claim. How droll.
How many more times do you plan to do that?


Great. Prove this to be true.
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How wonderful. You are no better than the two year old who asks endless "Whys" simply to annoy his parents. You could care less what I have to argue, you only wish to be a nuisance. Since you have nothing to contribute, I end our discussion here.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Feel free to list ALL of the tenets for us. I was only aware of one.
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Interesting. See the recent post from Critical Thought who argues there are two tenets.
 
CriticalThought said:
How wonderful. You are no better than the two year old who asks endless "Whys" simply to annoy his parents.
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It's not MY fault that you cannot prove your position, a position that you tried to argue for some time (and then suddenly.changed).

Perhaps you should try to put more "critical thought" in your claims before you make them and your positions before you take them - perhaps then you would not find yourself in this situation where you cannot show that your argument is sound.

Also, see the recent post from Catz Part Deux and tell us how he is wrong.

And in any event, -my- original point remains:
If you follow the tenets of Christianty, you are are Christian; if you do not, you are not.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
So, is belief that homosexuality is a sin a requirement for salvation?
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You need to ask someone that has argued the specifics of the tenets of Christianity.

But, to the point -I- made, If that is one of the basic tenets, and you do not hold that belief, you, necessarily, are not a Christian.
 
Goobieman said:
It's not MY fault that you cannot prove your position, a position that you tried to argue for some time (and then suddenly.changed).

Perhaps you should try to put more "critical thought" in your claims before you make them and your positions before you take them - perhaps then you would not find yourself in this situation where you cannot show that your argument is sound.

Also, see the recent post from Catz Part Deux and tell us how he is wrong.

And in any event, -my- original point remains:
If you follow the tenets of Christianty, you are are Christian; if you do not, you are not.
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You can't prove a subjective belief. You can't prove that there is a God. You can't prove that Christianity is correct. You can't prove that the Bible is an accurate account of events. You can't prove any of that.

So you want Critical Thought. You have no more right to condemn someone for their beliefs than they have to condemn you for yours.
 
Goobieman said:
You need to ask someone that has argued the specifics of the tenets of Christianity.

But, to the point -I- made, If that is one of the basic tenets, and you do not hold that belief, you, necessarily, are not a Christian.
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Is that one of the tenets of Christianity? Answer the question. It should be easy, it's a 50/50 chance of being right.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Is that one of the tenets of Christianity? Answer the question. It should be easy, it's a 50/50 chance of being right.
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He won't answer. He is simply being evasive so that he doesn't have to make an argument. This kind of equivocation isn't worth bothering with.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Is that one of the tenets of Christianity? Answer the question.
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Your question does not address -my- point, and so there is no reason for me to answer it. Perhaos you should try to figure out what my point is -- it shoud be very easy as I have been very clear.
 
CriticalThought said:
He won't answer. He is simply being evasive so that he doesn't have to make an argument.
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You haven't been paying attention -- I very clearly made an argument.

You, on the other hand, ran away from trying to support yours.
 
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