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Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

jallman said:
Adults admit when they are wrong and attempt to grow from it.
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And thus, your refusal to do is proof positive of the accuracy of my characterization.

So please... continue to exhibit your delusions at your leisure - I, for one, get a kick out of goading you into this sort of self-abusing behavior
 
Goobieman said:
And thus, your refusal to do is proof positive of the accuracy of my characterization.
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Except you were shown where you were undeniably wrong. You refuse reality and that really gets you nowhere unless your goal is to get medicated.

Is that your goal?

So please... continue to exhibit your delusions at your leisure - I, for one, get a kick out of goading you into this sort of self-abusing behavior
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LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
 
Goobieman said:
No...
"The other tenets of Christianity", along with the "central tenet" define Christianity; the tenets of the various sects define those sects.

If your sect follows those tenets of Christianity, then it is Christian, regardless of what other variations it migh thave; if not, then not.
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There is only one major tenet to Christianity. I have defined it. If you feel there are others, then list them.
 
CriticalThought said:
There is only one major tenet to Christianity. I have defined it. If you feel there are others, then list them.
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These are the central tenets of the faith, even amongst protestants:

The Apostle's Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ,
His only Son, our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell;
The third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The holy Christian Church,
The Communion of Saints,
the Forgiveness of sins,
The Resurrection of the body,
And the Life everlasting.
Amen.
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Beliefs about homosexuality have never been on the list.

As a former Southern Baptist, the key concept was unity in essentials (see above), liberty in non-essentials. Beliefs about homosexuality fall into the non-essential category.
 
Personally I've always thought that religions that have to tout/evangelize/sell/convert to their faith are lacking a certain confidence in it. They lack the faith that it is THE faith and hence indulge in proselytising in order to convince themselves as much as anyone else.

I note that those of the faiths that don't do it (Judaism/Buddhism/Taoism/Quakers) convince more by their quiet devotion than by any amount of street theatre.
 
Andalublue said:
Personally I've always thought that religions that have to tout/evangelize/sell/convert to their faith are lacking a certain confidence in it. They lack the faith that it is THE faith and hence indulge in proselytising in order to convince themselves as much as anyone else.

I note that those of the faiths that don't do it (Judaism/Buddhism/Taoism/Quakers) convince more by their quiet devotion than by any amount of street theatre.
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I agree. The evangelicals also tend to do the least to actually build up and nurture believers, and follow Matthew 25.

It's two totally different concepts. Evangelicals seem to be about numbers..."How many people can I persuade to pray a certain prayer?" Other protestants seem to be more about teaching people how to live in a way that reflects the life and example of Christ.
 
Andalublue said:
Personally I've always thought that religions that have to tout/evangelize/sell/convert to their faith are lacking a certain confidence in it. They lack the faith that it is THE faith and hence indulge in proselytising in order to convince themselves as much as anyone else.
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Then you, personally, have no business discussing religion if you are that far off in your assessments. The evengelical faiths witness to others out of a love for them and a desire to see them brought into the comfort of God's grace.

I note that those of the faiths that don't do it (Judaism/Buddhism/Taoism/Quakers) convince more by their quiet devotion than by any amount of street theatre.
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I'd like to see stats on that.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I agree. The evangelicals also tend to do the least to actually build up and nurture believers, and follow Matthew 25.

It's two totally different concepts. Evangelicals seem to be about numbers..."How many people can I persuade to pray a certain prayer?" Other protestants seem to be more about teaching people how to live in a way that reflects the life and example of Christ.
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Are we talking about the evangelical faiths or evangelical denominations of the Christian faith?
 
jallman said:
Then you, personally, have no business discussing religion if you are that far off in your assessments. The evengelical faiths witness to others out of a love for them and a desire to see them brought into the comfort of God's grace.
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In practice, it's slightly less sweet and wholesome than that.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I've always felt that salt/light was the best way of witnessing, myself.
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I forget whether it was Augustine or St Francis that said "Preach the gospel at all times... use words if necessary." :mrgreen:
 
jallman said:
I agree that the "evangelical denominations" have some serious issues then.
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There's an enormous amount of variation in denominations that are generically called "Evangelical".

We aren't all street-preachers and hellfire-shouters. Some of us are actually rather quiet, and occasionally think about things other than other-people's-sins. :mrgreen:

There's an enormous amount of variation under "Baptist" and even "Southern Baptist", since, as Catz noted, Baptists are unified only by certain basic essentials and the rest is largely left to the standards of individual congregations, and the conscience of the individual believer.
 
Andalublue said:
Personally I've always thought that religions that have to tout/evangelize/sell/convert to their faith are lacking a certain confidence in it. They lack the faith that it is THE faith and hence indulge in proselytising in order to convince themselves as much as anyone else.

I note that those of the faiths that don't do it (Judaism/Buddhism/Taoism/Quakers) convince more by their quiet devotion than by any amount of street theatre.
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More Christians/religions/believers (whichever you want to term) should feel that way. I think that is part of the problem a lot of people have with faith in general. No one wants to be told day in and day out...you're going to hell if you don't believe or do this or that or send us this amount of money. Especially if the same folks they see preaching this to you, are doing said evil every other day of the week. Sunday Christians is what i call them.

BUT, if you are just a person trying your best to live your life by your faith, and "shining your light into a dark world" so to speak, people generally stop and say...hmmmm why with all this persons problems are they so happy, or what gives this person the strength to do this or that. If asked, or if the opportunity presents itself, you tell them. I think that has "converted" (for lack of a better word at the moment) more people to faith than anything else. Jesus himself did go around preaching and teaching... but I think people felt drawn to him by his actions, by his behavior. I think that made people follow him, not just because of what he taught.
 
jallman said:
Then you, personally, have no business discussing religion if you are that far off in your assessments. The evengelical faiths witness to others out of a love for them and a desire to see them brought into the comfort of God's grace.
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Thanks for deciding who can and can't debate, Jall. I'm not so far off. I grew up in an Evangelical Baptist family. I have to tell you that when I came out I didn't witness too much love in the efforts the elders (and particularly the pastor) exerted on my mother to get her to reject me from the family. Needless to say, they had ejected me from the Fellowship quicker than my first boyfriend popped my cherry. That Grace you're referring to comes with a LOT of preconditions.

I was not just referring to Evangelical Christianity however. There are many faiths that seem to place more store by the preconditions than by the fundamentals.

Not sure what statistics exist to show that certain faiths do or don't set store by evangelising.
 
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BamaBrat said:
Sin...is sin....is sin...is sin. All are bad in God's eyes. Whether it be homosexuality, murder, stealing, coveting, whatever else you can think of. No one is bigger or worse than the other. According to the Bible (whether you agree with it, dont agree with it, dont care, whatever)... it states that homosexuality is an abomination to God. No one is telling anyone they have to believe that, it just is what it is. But all sin is. And it is always hate the sin not the sinner. I think homosexuality is a sin, that is my personal opinion and no one elses. However, having said that, I know quite a few gays and lesbians, some of whom I am friends with some I am not; but either way I dont hate them, I dont talk about them, I dont constantly push the bible in their faces to get them to see the error of their ways...they know where I stand on the issue, I know where they stand; doesnt mean we dont get along great. Doesnt mean that I dont think they are fantastic people. I just dont agree with their lifestyle and choose not to do that for myself. It's really not that difficult a concept to understand.
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I think you generally get it, though I think you are a bit wishy-washy on the sin of homosexuality. I think Paul's letter to the Corinthians makes the sin of homosexual behavior pretty clear. As you well point out, however, sin is sin. We are all sinners.

Those that covet, those that divorce and re-marry, those that wish ill-will on their brother, those that lie, those that practice idoltry (which worship of the US dollar, the US Flag or any number of symbols could qualify) are not aligned with God's will for us, and thus are sinning. The sin of homosexuality has been elevated above other sin, and that is not biblical, for as you point out, sin is sin.

Some Christians would have you believe the Three Commandments are 1) Though shall not have an abortion; 2) though shall not be homosexual and 3) though shall not view pornography. Funny, Christ spoke of none of these things (well, except #3). Instead, these have become convenient things for Christians to rally around and preach about as they are each "other people's sins" (not in all cases). Christians (and I am) love to preach on these because they promote self-righteousness and defer to need to look at each of our individual sins, which for each of us, are sufficient for eternal damnation...

I think arguing anything but the fact that homosexuality is a sin is just twisting the Bible into your personal belief system; that said, homosexuality is among many, many sins, most of which we rarely talk about (like greed, which was a Ten Commandment and Christ spoke often about)... Let those from the religious right start talking about greed (probably America's most egregious sin), then watch the fireworks in the Republican party.
 
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texmaster said:
What makes this one so special that you want to force everyone else to accept it without any basis in genetics or any other natural cause for it?
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Yeah, gay people just like to make trouble by being different. :2razz:
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Arresting someone for speech makes sense to you?

That doesn't fly in free countries.

Was the man inciting a riot? Exhorting the commission of a crime?

No. He was teaching a layman the teachings of his church.

He wouldn't have been arrested if he'd been a muslim imam.
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This is where you (and a lot of others on here) are wrong.

He would have been arrested were he a Muslim Imam.

This happened in the UK - a nation without the 1st Amendment who has hate speech laws.

Those are two things that are very different from here in the US.

I'm just kinda sick of everyone acting like this happened in the states and under our laws. It didn't.

Hypothetically, it's all right to argue whether it was right or wrong for him to be arrested (and I believe that since he was in public space and not a church changes things here, but I could be wrong about that); but people are talking about this as if it were an American issue and it is not.
 
what a load of crap.

You should be free to call Homosexuality a sin, Christanity a hateful religion and Islam a religion of virgin sucidal worshippers. Not to mention all kinds of other crap.
 
obvious Child said:
what a load of crap.

You should be free to call Homosexuality a sin, Christanity a hateful religion and Islam a religion of virgin sucidal worshippers. Not to mention all kinds of other crap.
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Of course you should.

And you are free to do so in the US.

This is NOT a story from the US.
 
I kinda see this as ironic. Didn't christians settle america to flee from religious persecution, specifically from UK?

This really shouldn't surprise anyone. UK has been haten' on christians that actually read the bible themselves for centuries now. Hell, the UK has been silently hating on their own state-church. They are not a bastion of freedom in europe, even if some of their citizens like to claim it is.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Of course you should.

And you are free to do so in the US.

This is NOT a story from the US.
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You should be free to do it anywhere on the globe.

It's what we call a "human right", a product of universal morality.

While the moral relativist must concede that stoning women for being raped is acceptable if that's what that society wants, the moral universalist understands that there is a basic human decency which all humans should be held to, that rape is always wrong and so is oppressing free speech and ideas.

It doesn't matter what country this story is in, in fact if we were 200 years in the future it wouldn't matter if this story were taking place on a space station, martian settlement or whatever. Free speech is a basic human right and it should be defended to the death.
 
CriticalThought said:
There is only one major tenet to Christianity. I have defined it. If you feel there are others, then list them.
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And again... 'one major tenet' denotes that there are a number of minor tenets.

If you follow ALL of the tenets, you are Christian.
If not, you are not. Its really that simple.
 
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