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Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

You missed my point, in some cities LE would not even bother to call ICE, even after the person was in custody.

What new class. It is not legal by Federal Law to be in the US without permission.

So why should Az continue to tolerate almost 1/2 million illegals in its State.
Do you feel the Feds are doing an adequate job? I don't.

In San Francisco they ignore federal laws and purposefully provide cover for people in this country illegally. The very liberal group-think city is a "sanctuary city" for illegals.

It has caused the city problems, for example:
San Francisco: Sanctuary City Gone Awry - SFGate
 
You missed my point, in some cities LE would not even bother to call ICE, even after the person was in custody.

What new class. It is not legal by Federal Law to be in the US without permission.

So why should Az continue to tolerate almost 1/2 million illegals in its State.
Do you feel the Feds are doing an adequate job? I don't.

And you missed my point that far from being a crime fighting law, this will create zones in each Arizonan community where local law enforcement can expect zero cooperation.

But, no the federal government has not kept up in its enforcement responsibilities and it's a bipartisan failing no doubt. The major parties are split, both of them, there is no national consensus.

The solution is not for states to get into the act as Arizona has. And Arizona is about to find out why. I have already alluded to the crime fighting myth but more important is the fact that we can never secure our own liberty by limiting that to a minority of our population. That's what this bill does.
 
And you missed my point that far from being a crime fighting law, this will create zones in each Arizonan community where local law enforcement can expect zero cooperation.

But, no the federal government has not kept up in its enforcement responsibilities and it's a bipartisan failing no doubt. The major parties are split, both of them, there is no national consensus.

The solution is not for states to get into the act as Arizona has. And Arizona is about to find out why. I have already alluded to the crime fighting myth but more important is the fact that we can never secure our own liberty by limiting that to a minority of our population. That's what this bill does.

I disagree. The law does not limit the "hispanic" population in AZ. Time will tell. First the law has to be enacted and that won't happen till summer. Second, it most likely will have to survive the courts.

I don't feel "illegals", no matter where they come from have a right to be here or stay. They came in the wrong way. I support legal immigration. I do not support those that can't follow the law.

IMO, Az on the right track. Sharpton doesn't like it.
 
The probable cause is the issue.

Just what is going to be probable cause?


Looking Mexican? Speaking Spanish?

If just once an American citizen or legal immigrant is stopped for either of those two reasons I hope that PD and the state is sued and for millions of dollars.


If you had any experience with the situation here in AZ, you would know that it is fairly easy to tell the illegals from the one who have been through the process of obtaining legal papers.
Of course, there are no absolutes, although I am sure that Police officers, who deal with lawbreakers every day, will have even more experience than the average Joe.

You know that federal law already requires legal immigrants to carry ID anyway, don't you?

Not any real change happening here except that now the local law enforcment have another tool to use.
 
A few citizens of a specific ethnicity will be inconvenienced. Not all citizens. As such it is discriminatory.

And the state will be force to pay punitive damages which tend to be rather large in the US.

If Arizona wants to do this they should put up check points and check the citizenship of each and every person they stop, be they caucasian, hispanic, asian or african. Lets see how many Arizona residents woudl then support this law

There are already checkpoints that do this very thing on the main thoroughfares coming up from Mexico. They ask me if I am a US citizen every time I drive through.
 
And what if you were not carrying your ID?. Like if you going out for a walk, a run, or a bike ride. There is no reason to be carrying one in those cases. Should the PD then arrest you for not being able to produce your ID. Good plan for a free country.

Again, you are ignoring the probable cause part of this law.
Riding your bike or jogging down the canal bank is not probable cause.
 
Again, you are ignoring the probable cause part of this law.
Riding your bike or jogging down the canal bank is not probable cause.

They already had this ability. This law gives them more wiggle room to question anybody for "Der papahs".
 
I.C.E. enforces immigration laws, not local police. If local law enforcement officers spend their time checking the papers of everyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant as the law requires, do you think that community cooperation with them will be severely impacted? I do. This law has created a whole new criminal class and is about to reap that whirlwind.

There is no community cooperation with the illegal population, they are a shadow community, avoiding contact with the police. This is because they already know they are breaking the law, just by being here.

Thus the term ILLEGAL aliens.
 
They already had this ability. This law gives them more wiggle room to question anybody for "Der papahs".

So you jump and down and scream about privacy when the bank asks you to show ID? How about when you get a job? What about that paperwork?

This kind of argument is so pathetic.

And the German crap only shows you don't have a clue about how the Nazis truly were if you are comparing them to us.
 
I can't believe this has gone on for 29 pages.

Okay folks, this is what is going to happen.

Some state police officer is going to yank some Hispanic man or woman into the station and threaten to send them back to Mexico because they can't present papers on the spot. It will become known that the individual they dragged in is actually an American citizen. The citizen will sue the state for violating his or her 14th amendment right, which you might recall says...

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The case will be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court where the law will be struck down.
 
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So you jump and down and scream about privacy when the bank asks you to show ID? How about when you get a job? What about that paperwork?

This kind of argument is so pathetic.

How so:confused:
 
How did you miss it?

You are asked for ID all the time. How are you being violated by asking for it by a cop?

The involuntary nature of it.

I dont have to go to the bank, which means I dont have to show them my id

If a landlord asks to see my ID I can go and find a different landlord

I can get someone else to purchase liquor if the store demands ID
 
The involuntary nature of it.

I dont have to go to the bank, which means I dont have to show them my id

If a landlord asks to see my ID I can go and find a different landlord

I can get someone else to purchase liquor if the store demands ID

And when you get pulled over for speeding or because a vehicle matching yours was seen in the area do you pitch a fit when a cop asks you for id?
 
Actually, it's nothing to do with profiling "Hispanics," since Hispanics can be of any race. It's all connected with the racial profiling of Indians, since the majority of migrant laborers belong to Indian lower classes. Arizona has one of the richest indigenous heritages of any state in the country, and this will be particularly problematic because the Spanish colonization left Southwestern Indians with Spanish surnames and Catholicism, making them superficially indistinguishable from "Mexicans" to the ignorant profiler. I hope they profile a few Tohono O'odham, and they become so offended that they'll rip down every single inch of fence that they attempt to construct in Pima County. :rofl
 
And when you get pulled over for speeding or because a vehicle, matching yours was seen in the area do you pitch a fit when a cop asks you for id?

No

As driving is a voluntary act, as is speeding.

The speeding would be probable cause to check my license ( and how else would they give me a ticket

And I assume you mean that a vehicle similar to mine was seen in the area and was suspected of being involved in a very recent crime. If so they would have probable cause, I would not be happy about it, but it would be reasonable.

You would notice that my objections deal with circumstances when someone is not required to have id. IE walking on the street. Not trying to get a loan from the bank, or driving a car, or trying to buy a gun etc. Just being on the street (sidewalk specifically, just in case someone was thinking about the person j walking)
 
How did you miss it?

It's easy when you make no point. :roll:

You are asked for ID all the time. How are you being violated by asking for it by a cop?

In THIS country we expect, and consider it one of our rights, to be able to go about our business and not be harassed by "Der papahs" without that pesky thing known as probable cause.
 
No

As driving is a voluntary act, as is speeding.

The speeding would be probable cause to check my license ( and how else would they give me a ticket

And probable cause is a requirement. Read the law again.

And I assume you mean that a vehicle similar to mine was seen in the area and was suspected of being involved in a very recent crime. If so they would have probable cause, I would not be happy about it, but it would be reasonable.

which is exactly what the law says.

You would notice that my objections deal with circumstances when someone is not required to have id. IE walking on the street. Not trying to get a loan from the bank, or driving a car, or trying to buy a gun etc. Just being on the street (sidewalk specifically, just in case someone was thinking about the person j walking)

So in your mind you should never ever have to prove who you are unless you are doing something voluntary.

Exactly how does that make sense?


And please cite the law you are quoting that makes this true. Can't wait to see this one :D
 
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It's easy when you make no point. :roll:

I made it you simply ignored it.

In THIS country we expect, and consider it one of our rights, to be able to go about our business and not be harassed by "Der papahs" without that pesky thing known as probable cause.

Again with the German bs. I see you still haven't learned your lesson.

And read the law. It says probable cause is required.

Reading comprehension FTW.
 
I made it you simply ignored it.



Again with the German bs. I see you still haven't learned your lesson.

And read the law. It says probable cause is required.

Reading comprehension FTW.

Amazing how the pro-illegal spread same lies about racial profiling and fear mongering when Oklahoma passed a similar law.

[ame=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&ei=7a_VS8mQJoecsgPKr8G6AQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAsQBSgA&q=Oklahoma+HB+1804+racial+profiling&spell=1]Oklahoma HB 1804 racial profiling - Google Search[/ame]
 
It does make you a criminal if you are an illegal immigrant

But what gives the police probable cause to believe you are an illegal immigrant

It is not like it is writen your forehead, a legal US citizen walking down the street pretty much looks like an illegal immigrant walking down the street. So what is going to give the police probable cause to ask that person for his/her ID?

LOL... the Euros have been pretty quite in this thread.
Good reason. They can and do racial profile.
They can stop you without any cause and demand your papers.
In your car, on foot, in public transport. Happens ALL DAY, everyday.

Well, if Paco ain't speeky engi too goood man, it's one indication... for a perfessionali trained oefficer ov de lew. Two perhaps:

1. Public skoolz suck big dicks.
2. It's likely he is an illegal. That's a prubbuble cuss.

.
 
I made it you simply ignored it.

You made no point.

Again with the German bs. I see you still haven't learned your lesson.

And read the law. It says probable cause is required.

Reading comprehension FTW.

Maybe it is YOU who needs to read the law:confused: They had a law on the books dealing with illegals via probable cause. What is different about this one? :roll:
 
They had a law on the books dealing with illegals via probable cause. What is different about this one? :roll:


The state authority to enforce it rather than wait until the Feds get their collective head out of their arse.


j-mac
 
To all legal Arizona hispanic residents: We must fight peacefully this travesty of justice no matter how long it takes. We can do this in a number of ways. First don't answer ANY questions that pertain to your legal status in this country. Don't carry ANY type of documentation with you AT ANY TIME untill this thing is repealed. Third, speak to the officer ONLY in SPANISH. Lets have as many legal citizens arrested under this law as we can. Remember, they won't give you ANY civil rights unless you fight for them, just ask our African-American friends.
 
To all legal Arizona hispanic residents: We must fight peacefully this travesty of justice no matter how long it takes. We can do this in a number of ways. First don't answer ANY questions that pertain to your legal status in this country. Don't carry ANY type of documentation with you AT ANY TIME untill this thing is repealed. Third, speak to the officer ONLY in SPANISH. Lets have as many legal citizens arrested under this law as we can.

So you intentionally want the wrong people people to be deported just so illegals can stay here? How would intentionally not carrying any documents, speaking only in Spanish and refusing to answer any questions prove any fault in the law? Because I am sure any judge will rule that even though you intentionally gave he officer reasonable suspicion that you were an illegal, the police officer still had a reasonable suspicion. All it would do is ship a few dumbasses across the border. Cop now days have cameras in their car so there would be video evidence that you gave police reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal, not because of an alleged racial profiling..


Remember, they won't give you ANY civil rights unless you fight for them, just ask our African-American friends.

So illegal immigration is equal to black people being forced to sit on the back of the bus, drink at a separate drinking fountains, being lynched, and all kinds of other ****? Last I checked you can't choose the color of your skin but you can most certainly choose to come across the border illegally.
 
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