Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

Chappy said:

Another question is how much safer will Arizonans be with new law being enforced …

“The Arizona immigration law will likely hinder federal law enforcement from carrying out its priorities of detaining and removing dangerous criminal aliens. With the strong support of state and local law enforcement, I vetoed several similar pieces of legislation as Governor of Arizona because they would have diverted critical law enforcement resources from the most serious threats to public safety and undermined the vital trust between local jurisdictions and the communities they serve. I support and am actively working with bipartisan members of Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level because this issue cannot be solved by a patchwork of inconsistent state laws.” — Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Gov. Jan Brewer's predecessor as Arizona governor†​

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They will be safer because someone is actually enforcing the laws. I don't trust Nepolitano either. She is just an angry Democrat who wants to bash this bill because she doesn't agree with it. She also doesn't prove how it would prevent the federal authorities from doing their jobs. All she said was that she feels they would "likely-hinder" federal authorities from doing their jobs. If the feds and the state both have the goal of justice in mind then if anything this bill is helping the feds by doing much of the work for them.

Hatuey said:

Reasons to never go to Arizona:

[X] Crazy hot.
[X] Can't find a good beach anywhere.
[X] Immigration laws which make everyone and anyone an illegal immigrant.

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Arizona is the new Alaska only Alaska wins cause they have glaciers.

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If you are looking for a beach in Arizona you've got more problems than the immigration bill

texmaster said:

Crime is state issue.

Try again Hatuey

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Lmao - yeah on what grounds? Who deals with immigration law?

texmaster said:

If you are looking for a beach in Arizona you've got more problems than the immigration bill

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That is kind of the point. Places without beaches are not worthy of traveling to.

Hatuey said:

Lmao - yeah on what grounds? Who deals with immigration law?

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There's your lack of thought again.

This isn't passing because of illegals breaking immigration law. Its passing because of the other crimes illegals commit.

Chappy said:

The issue is that in Arizona, you are now required by law to carry with you at all times proof of your citizenship or legal entry into the state

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IF you are not a natural born or naturalized(I could be wrong about the naturalized not have to carry their Certificate of U.S. Naturalization) citizen you have to have those documents on you at all times regardless of Arizona law and regardless if you are a tourist, on a work visa or have a permanent resident card.

and that a police officer can demand those papers for any reason;you are wearing the wrong sneakers; the shape of your hat suggests a foreign style, etc.
I find it interesting that a non-Arizona drivers license may be insufficient proof that you are here legally.

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This sounds like pro-illegals propaganda/ fear mongering.

Chappy said:

The issue is that in Arizona, you are now required by law to carry with you at all times proof of your citizenship or legal entry into the state and that a police officer can demand those papers for any reason; you are wearing the wrong sneakers; the shape of your hat suggests a foreign style, etc. I find it interesting that a non-Arizona drivers license may be insufficient proof that you are here legally.

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You got proof to back up this assertion?

jamesrage said:

IF you are not a natural born or naturalized(I could be wrong about the naturalized not have to carry their Certificate of U.S. Naturalization) citizen you have to have those documents on you at all times regardless of Arizona law and regardless if you are a tourist, on a work visa or have a permanent resident card.



This sounds like pro-illegals propaganda

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Policemen do abuse their authorities though - not all of them, and hardly all the time, but the fact is that we have seen more issues with police and the dance they do on that very fine line between doing their job and power tripping - the crossing of said line makes this concern that they will target people based on appearance and make up a bull**** reason to be covered under "probable cause" plausible, IMO.

texmaster said:

There's your lack of thought again.

This isn't passing because of illegals breaking immigration law. Its passing because of the other crimes illegals commit.

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Did you even read the article?

Immigration law:

The sweeping legislation makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. It would also require local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegally.

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Your ignorance is shinning through.

I support the bill in its concept I'm just concerned about how its going to be enforced, and I'm worried the cure might be worse than the disease.
For example since natural or naturalized citizens do not have to carry any special paperwork on them, anyone who is an illegal immigrant or someone else who has to carry papers now can simply claim to be a natural citizen. So how would you tell if someone was required to carry these papers or not?

The most obvious method is racial profiling, which I'm not saying is entirely wrong in all situations, however it is politically and socially sensitive.

What it could be useful for if officers always take people at their word if they tell them they dont need any papers, is to slap an additional charge if that person is later arrested for something. Since officers won't be doing random checks, if someone is confronted by an officer, then later arrested, when they check him into the database it'll show that he needed these papers but lied when the officer questioned him about them earlier, even if what he was arrested for had nothing to do with those papers.

Chappy said:

. I find it interesting that a non-Arizona drivers license may be insufficient proof that you are here legally.

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Where did you here/read that? Did you read the law or are you getting your information from news media spin? Did you hear the part where the law copies/follows the federal law?

If its ok with you all the illegals in AZ can go to SF. You won't have any objections?

jamesrage said:

… This sounds like pro-illegals propaganda/ fear mongering.

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I will certainly defer to your considerable expertise on fear mongering.

As to what constitutes as the kind of papers you'll need on your next visit to Arizona, I can provide this …

Excerpted from ‘“Papers, Please” in Arizona’ Posted by Jim Harper, CATO@Liberty, April 22, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
[SIZE="+2"]T[/SIZE]he documents that can be used to prove legal immigration status under the bill include a valid Arizona driver license, a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license, a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification, or a valid federal-, state- or local-government-issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.

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And, again, the concerns I have are not about illegal immigration enforcement but about civil rights and violations thereof for a whole class of people. I think Arizonans have been badly misled by their political leadership who can't address their real problems of governmental fiscal default, the real estate market free fall, burgeoning unemployment and human despair. I think this law plays on all those anxieties and distracts from them, but serves no positive purpose other than justify the law makers own continued employment.

Wiseone said:

I support the bill in its concept I'm just concerned about how its going to be enforced, and I'm worried the cure might be worse than the disease.
For example since natural or naturalized citizens do not have to carry any special paperwork on them, anyone who is an illegal immigrant or someone else who has to carry papers now can simply claim to be a natural citizen. So how would you tell if someone was required to carry these papers or not?

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If they do not speak English then that might a huge clue seeing how naturalized citizens have to pass a English proficiency test. I am pretty sure that if you a driver's license or ID card the police can look up those numbers to see if you actually have the real thing.

jamesrage said:

If they do not speak English then that might a huge clue seeing how naturalized citizens have to pass a English proficiency test. I am pretty sure that if you a driver's license or ID card the police can look up those numbers to see if you actually have the real thing.

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Good point on the driver's license

For those of you who can read english SB1070 for your enjoyment

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Excerpted from “Arizona immigration law: History, background,” The Arizona Republic, Apr. 23, 2010 02:29 PM
[SIZE="+2"]P[/SIZE]hoenix Vice Mayor Michael Nowakowski earlier in the week sent a letter to City Manager David Cavazos, suggesting that if the bill becomes law, police should request citizenship proof from everyone they stop in order to avoid charges of racial profiling.

The bill states that an Arizona driver's license is sufficient to prove citizenship. Nowakowski argued that licenses from other states, however, may not be sufficient because some states do not require proof of citizenship to get a license, as Arizona does.

"That means that anyone who drives in the city of Phoenix and gets pulled over better have a passport or a visa," he said.

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My emphasis.

Here's another source on the problem with getting stopped by a policeman in Phoenix for any reason and why your home state driver's license may not be enough to keep you from being arrested as a possible illegal immigrant.

Chappy said:

I will certainly defer to your considerable expertise on fear mongering.

And, again, the concerns I have are not about illegal immigration enforcement but about civil rights and violations thereof for a whole class of people. I think Arizonans have been badly misled by their political leadership who can't address their real problems of governmental fiscal default, the real estate market free fall, burgeoning unemployment and human despair. I think this law plays on all those anxieties and distracts from them, but serves no positive purpose other than justify the law makers own continued employment.

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I disagree. Some of us in AZ are fed up with the lack of response from the Federal Govt to deal with the issue of "illegal" crossing into our state. We are fed up with the illegal drugs, the coyote smugglers, drop houses, the trashing of the landscape, and other strains on our state caused by the illegals. If you want to come work here, enter legally. If not, please go to California. California is in such great shape economically. It is much better than AZ. They will take care of you.:2wave:

Chappy said:

My emphasis.

Here's another source on the problem with getting stopped by a policeman in Phoenix for any reason and why your home state driver's license may not be enough to keep you from being arrested as a possible illegal immigrant.

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This is nothing more than one politicians opinion. Got to remember, the mayor of Phoenix Phil, likes to cater to the illegals and give them a home. So his staff is just spouting his position.

Chappy said:

"It's like they're saying that harassing Latinos with racial profiling is an inevitable side-effect of this law. It's not. It's the entire point of this law.” — Stephen Colbert, “The Word,” Comedy Central's, “The Colbert Report,” Wednesday, April 21, 2010† ​

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Isn't Colbert a comedian?

Chappy said:

"It's like they're saying that harassing Latinos with racial profiling is an inevitable side-effect of this law. It's not. It's the entire point of this law.” — Stephen Colbert, “The Word,” Comedy Central's, “The Colbert Report,” Wednesday, April 21, 2010† ​

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Yep and we are proud of it. If you believe the crap he is spilling. He must be a comedian. His jobs a joke.

SouthernDemocrat said:

You can't blame Arizona at all on this. I don't see the problem with it. If you are here illegally, what is wrong with a state picking up the slack for the federal government? After all, the costs for medical care, housing, crime, and public education associated with those that come here illegally is primarily born by the states, so why not let the states help enforce immigration law?

I am left of center on a lot of issues. But the fact is, we can't afford to provide education and healthcare for the kids of every illegal that makes it across the Sonora Desert.

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I agree. However, I want to understand more about how it's going to be implemented.

The left-leaning media is making a big deal over this -- the notion of police asking for identification or 'making people show their papers'. I believe they're talking about a driver's license or passport. You can't get a driver's lic. in CA without a birth cert. or proof of residency. I imagine it's the same with AZ. This is not 'show us your papers' like Communist Russia.

I understand that some legal citizens are going to be annoyed in the early days, but if you take this measure to its logical conclusion, eventually the illegal worker population in AZ will go down and the police will be less inclined to stop everyone with brown skin. If they start detaining and harassing people who have proper ID, that would become a problem and hurt the overall effort. So constantly stopping legal citizens would be counter productive.

If the police in AZ use this in a logical and pragmatic way, and not go overboard and harass everyone with brown skin, then I don't have a problem with it. In CA the state sales tax is almost 10% and we're still going bankrupt because of all the non-tax paying people draining public resources.

Consider the economics of eliminating the migrant workers in CA--the price of certain goods (fruits, produce, CA wine) and services (landscaping) will go up. But the drain on public resources will go down significantly.

The thing about AZ police and the boarder patrol--a lot of natural born hispanics work for local police departments and customs services--they are not totally insensitive to the people they are processing through the system. I don't like the way some portray them as Gestapo or Abu Ghraib guards. There have been abuses, but the police in AZ are dedicated to protecting the citizens of AZ. Joe Arpaio crosses the line with some of his methods, but on the whole AZ police and boarder patrol make an honest effort at dealing with difficult problems. IMHO.

I'm from Az. If you don't like it, please take our illegals to your state. What part of "illegal" don't you protesters understand. Federal laws says its illegal to enter without permission. Now state law says yep it is against the state also. What is the problem? Guess you don't like the Federal law either.

mike2810 said:

For those of you who can read english...

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Moderator's Warning:

Please refrain from insulting other DP members. Focus on the new law. DP is an English-language messageboard. It is presumed that all members are sufficiently proficient in the English language to participate in the discussions.

Chappy said:

"It's like they're saying that harassing Latinos with racial profiling is an inevitable side-effect of this law. It's not. It's the entire point of this law.” — Stephen Colbert, “The Word,” Comedy Central's, “The Colbert Report,” Wednesday, April 21, 2010† ​

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jamesrage said:

Isn't Colbert a comedian?

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mike2810 said:

Yep and we are proud of it. If you believe the crap he is spilling. He must be a comedian. His jobs a joke.

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Yes, Stephen Colbert's a comedian but, of course, for him to be funny he has to be touching on some underlying reality.

And, Stephen Colbert is not the only one observing Arizona decline into insanity!

Excerpted from “What's the matter with Arizona?” By ANDY BARR, Politico, 4/23/10 2:50 PM EDT
[SIZE="+2"]A[/SIZE]rizona is “turning into a punch line,” one of the state’s newspapers reported Friday after surveying the latest global commentary about the state featuring choice phrases such as “wingnut paradise,” “nuttiest legislative body,” “America’s dumbest state,” and “blazing a trail into the fringe.”

It was hardly news to Arizonans, though. Last fall, the state’s governor, Jan Brewer, was caught on video in Tucson expressing her “great relief, to say the least, to get out of that hellhole in Phoenix."

Even some of the state’s own politicians have begun referring to Arizona as a “laughing stock.” …

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