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Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

F107HyperSabr

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Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

Sue Lowden, a Republican Senate hopeful in Nevada, has been widely mocked for earlier this week stating that, "before we all started having health care, in the olden days our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor, they would say I'll paint your house."

WTF does this broad think that she is living in the 18th century ?

Is this going to be the Republican health financing plan ? Chickens ??

The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee subsequently set up a "Chickens for Checkups" website offering a fake form letter in which people could offer items in exchange for health care - 10 chickens for rickets treatment, five sets of overalls for "the vapors," etc.

Truth am stranger than fiction !!!
 
I think here that late next next month I go for my anual physical. So I am going see if the wild blackberries that I did not have bulldozed when I added on to the house are ready. I am fixin to pick me a mess o' them and bring them with me when I go see Doctor Bob and say hey Doc Bob forget about my 'surance you just take these bags of blackberries and we can call this even.

Wonder if I cann pay Quest in dandeline wine for the blood test that Doctor Bob insists that I get ?
 
I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.

Could you imagine the chaos on talk radio, bashing obama if he suggested that trying to barter chickens for healthcare was his plan to reform healthcare?

He got bashed for suggesting that properly inflating yor tires will help your gas mileage...
 
I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.

Not really equitable bargaining positions. People need a doctor more than a doctor needs any individual patient.
 
So how many chickens for a lobotomy?
 
I honestly don't have much a problem with people bartering, its the fact that she considers it a solution to healthcare problems that bothers me. This should probably be merged with the similar thread in the elections forum as well.
 
I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.

Actually this was clarified. She actually meant barter, not haggle.

(besides, people can already bargain with their doctor and do it all the time)
 
Not really equitable bargaining positions. People need a doctor more than a doctor needs any individual patient.

True, but I wouldn't really call it haggling. Most doctors are nice people that will help you out.

My first year of college I dropped my parent's insurance on me to save them money and got a part time job with insurance, not great insurance, but at least I was covered. They told me that I either had to sign on full time or they'd have to let me go, so they let me go and I went looking for another job. Two months later, i was working a job with no insurance and was telling my parents to throw me back on their insurance and I'll just reimburse them for cost, but before they did I got appendicitis and had surgery and that was right after having two very infected ingrown toenails taken out.

I called three podiatrists, explained to each my situation and asked how the price was if I could pay cash before hand, all of them went pretty low but the last one said to come in and he'd do it at cost to help out a college kid. Ended up paying right around 60 bucks for the whole thing, plus purchasing some antibiotics.

The appendectomy totaled out to about 25,000 after I got all the separate doctor bills in, but after working with all of them, one of them dropped the charges (the anesthesiology team dropped the entire 750 I owed them), my surgeon went from 4000 down to 1000 if I signed a letter promising monthly payments and the hospital let me fill out a hardship form cutting their totals from nearly 20000 (for only 1 very short night in the hospital mind you) down to 6500 with a guarantee of monthly payments. It was tough to work it all off and pay for it on top of college costs and living expenses but I managed to pay it off around the same time I graduated.

I'll never go a day without insurance if there's anything I can do to help it, lol.
 
Could you imagine the chaos on talk radio, bashing obama if he suggested that trying to barter chickens for healthcare was his plan to reform healthcare?

He got bashed for suggesting that properly inflating yor tires will help your gas mileage...

Thank you. Yes, I remember the tire gauges they handed out a a joke, but the fact was, NASCAR supported it as a legitimate factor in saving gas.


Actually this was clarified. She actually meant barter, not haggle.

(besides, people can already bargain with their doctor and do it all the time)

She tripled down on the idea, stating it once. Then her PR people confirmed it and she re-iterated it again.
 

Don't lie. If you don't buy insurance you don't get a deduction for the excise tax imposed for healthcare. Then, if you don't pay your taxes you will be punished (only in severe cases does anyone go to jail.) But you don't go to jail for not having insurance.

Also, I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.
 
Thank you. Yes, I remember the tire gauges they handed out a a joke, but the fact was, NASCAR supported it as a legitimate factor in saving gas.

Well, really only an idiot would suggest otherwise. I'd love to see some republicans rolling around in a car with half-flat tires. I bet they'd stop to fill them up with air. They aren't that stupid, they know the truth, they just don't care to be honest if it fits their political narrative, not that this is a strictly Republican trait or anything.
 
Don't lie. If you don't buy insurance you don't get a deduction for the excise tax imposed for healthcare. Then, if you don't pay your taxes you will be punished (only in severe cases does anyone go to jail.) But you don't go to jail for not having insurance.

What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

Also, I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.
Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.
 
What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.

Of course I see the difference, but I don't know how it dissolves you of the personal responsibility of caring for yourself. Hell, even Republicans used to believe in this idea until they thought that being against it would help them get back in office. They gladly went against a policy that many of them thought at one time would help americans to being against it at the potential expense of tax payers lives all for political gain.

Also, why would anything about policy on jail time for failure to pay taxes be in the healthcare bill? It simply says that you will have to pay the excise tax if you don't buy insurance.

I meant severe as in I've only heard of people going to jail for owing hundreds of thousands in back taxes. No where near the amount of the excise tax on healthcare coverage.

If you believe you can be put in jail for not having health insurance simply point out where it says so. Or even where it says that the gov't can do anything to punish you. You won't find it. The only thing you'll find is the tax.
 
Well, really only an idiot would suggest otherwise. I'd love to see some republicans rolling around in a car with half-flat tires. I bet they'd stop to fill them up with air. They aren't that stupid, they know the truth, they just don't care to be honest if it fits their political narrative, not that this is a strictly Republican trait or anything.


That's the truth right there, both sides are guilty of it. Though in this case, Lowden confirmed, this is the truth of her proposal.
 
Of course I see the difference, but I don't know how it dissolves you of the personal responsibility of caring for yourself.
Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?

Hell, even Republicans used to believe in this idea until they thought that being against it would help them get back in office. They gladly went against a policy that many of them thought at one time would help americans to being against it at the potential expense of tax payers lives all for political gain.
I don't believe in it simply because Health Insurance isn't really insurance, it's a payment plan. Insurance is used only when something catastrophic occurs. Each time a small scratch is needed or a tune up of your car is required, you don't issue a claim on your Car insurance. Same way with Home Owners insurance... for if you did, you'd either be dropped or your premiums would skyrocket. However, at some point, we changed Health Care to now use insurance for every little thing, which is why the system and this bill is tantamount to polishing a turd.

Also, why would anything about policy on jail time for failure to pay taxes be in the healthcare bill? It simply says that you will have to pay the excise tax if you don't buy insurance.
You can slice it any way you want, but it's a penalty. Don't do what I say, pay a tax, or go to jail. And who makes the determination about what is or is not "severe" - you didn't answer that one.

I meant severe as in I've only heard of people going to jail for owing hundreds of thousands in back taxes. No where near the amount of the excise tax on healthcare coverage.
Well people don't go to jail or pay penalty's on anecdotal "I heard of people" ... so if it's not defined that means it's a loophole which means the loophole can be exploited whenever or with whomever the IRS sees fit. It might be what you define as "severe" or it might be a begnine mistake in which a person is being made an example. Who knows... since it's left ambiguous, that means it's suspect and could be exploited or used by whomever makes the decisions. Not a good method.

So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.

If you believe you can be put in jail for not having health insurance simply point out where it says so. Or even where it says that the gov't can do anything to punish you. You won't find it. The only thing you'll find is the tax.
That's the point - it doesn't say so. Since it goes to the IRS, you must pay a tax. What happens if you don't pay a Tax with the IRS? You're audited, fined and if you don't pay your fines, you go to jail. It's business as usual process for the IRS since they are the enforcement arm of the penalty.
 
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Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?

Because if you don't take care of yourself, the rest of us end up doing it. So yes, we have an interest in this.

So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.

To summarize, you're wrong. Tax law does not work that way.
 
Because if you don't take care of yourself, the rest of us end up doing it. So yes, we have an interest in this.
I'm not claiming no societal interest, I'm claiming no Constitutional foundation.

To summarize, you're wrong. Tax law does not work that way.
Then explain why it doesn't work that way and be prepared to show examples.
 
Don't lie.

LOL!

how can a person lie when all he does is post a link to senate finance committee chief of staff thomas barthold's handwritten letter to senator ensign stating that "the taxpayer may be charged with a misdemeanor with a penalty of up to $25,000 and not more than one year in jail?"

http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Barthold_letter.pdf

I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.

why do you think anyone around here cares what makes YOU glad?
 
Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?
Because you're added healthcare costs for not having insurance effects the whole country when we have people going to emergency rooms for minor things and racking up huge bills that they can't pay.
I don't believe in it simply because Health Insurance isn't really insurance, it's a payment plan. Insurance is used only when something catastrophic occurs. Each time a small scratch is needed or a tune up of your car is required, you don't issue a claim on your Car insurance. Same way with Home Owners insurance... for if you did, you'd either be dropped or your premiums would skyrocket. However, at some point, we changed Health Care to now use insurance for every little thing, which is why the system and this bill is tantamount to polishing a turd.
So a plan in which you pay into in order for it to cover something that may happen in the future isn't insurance?

You can slice it any way you want, but it's a penalty. Don't do what I say, pay a tax, or go to jail. And who makes the determination about what is or is not "severe" - you didn't answer that one.
Yea, it's a penalty. Not much point in writing a law that has no penalty and isn't enforceable. The point is though, it taxes you, it doesn't throw you in jail. If you don't pay your taxes then that's a separate matter all together.

Well people don't go to jail or pay penalty's on anecdotal "I heard of people" ... so if it's not defined that means it's a loophole which means the loophole can be exploited whenever or with whomever the IRS sees fit. It might be what you define as "severe" or it might be a begnine mistake in which a person is being made an example. Who knows... since it's left ambiguous, that means it's suspect and could be exploited or used by whomever makes the decisions. Not a good method.
It's not a loophole. The IRS still runs by whichever procedure it always has, this bill didn't change anything. The same thing happens regardless of what the taxes that didn't pay come from. I'm sure there's methods or rules in determining the penalties for not paying taxes, and going to jail is one of them, it's just not a common one.

The idea that someone will make a beginners mistake and automatically be thrown in jail is ridiculous. It shows what you owe when you do your income tax. If it says you owe, you owe, if it doesn't you don't.
So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.
It's a tax (which I agree can easily be considered a penalty), not required since you can opt for the penalty but yes, either one is required, and jail is possible, in some cases, but only where you willfully don't pay and the IRS can prove it.

IRS tax payments; income tax preparation and penalties; tax debts - MSN Money

"It's getting on April 15. You've finished your return, and you're still in shock. You made a lot of money and paid a lot of bills. But now you're looking at a tax bill that you just can't afford to pay.
Relax. You're not alone, and your plight is not unusual. Moreover, you're not going to jail. There are criminal penalties if the Internal Revenue Service can prove (the burden of proof is on the agency) that you intentionally didn't pay your taxes, but we'll assume that's not the case here. You just ran low on cash, and nobody goes to jail just because they owe money -- even to the IRS.
Your return is done -- that's how you know the magnitude of your debt. Send it in. Don't hold it just because you owe money that you can't pay.
You can't go to jail because you don't have the money to pay your tax bill, but you can go to jail for not filing. It's a criminal act, and you're not a criminal, so get that return in the mail."
That's the point - it doesn't say so. Since it goes to the IRS, you must pay a tax. What happens if you don't pay a Tax with the IRS? You're audited, fined and if you don't pay your fines, you go to jail. It's business as usual process for the IRS since they are the enforcement arm of the penalty.
You don't go to jail for not paying fines, if you honestly can't afford them. You go for not filing, lying on your filing on purpose, purposefully not paying even if you have the money. That's why you see all those tax guys on tv saying "do you owe the IRS 20000 dollars? call me and I'll work it out with them". These guys wouldn't have jobs if they threw everyone in jail that owed them money, right?

You're just following the little talking points because throwing out the whole "go to jail for not buying insurance" makes Obama sound bad.
 
LOL!

how can a person lie when all he does is post a link to senate finance committee chief of staff thomas barthold's handwritten letter to senator ensign stating that "the taxpayer may be charged with a misdemeanor with a penalty of up to $25,000 and not more than one year in jail?"

http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Barthold_letter.pdf



why do you think anyone around here cares what makes YOU glad?

Read the letter. It says you can go to jail for not filing or for willfully not paying taxes even though you can afford it. If you simply can't afford it then there is no jail time.

Also, I was just sating my opinion. Obviously you cared about it enough to reply to me about it, thus making you're question rather silly, but i wouldn't expect any less from you. :doh
 
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