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Obama: gay partners should have hospital access

CaptainCourtesy said:
This is true. Good for you to realize that.

Actually, YOU are complaining about the executive order and if you actually read and admitted to what you wrote, YOU'D see that.

So what? It's up to those other "poor picked on critters" to fight their own battles. That's your first failure.

Of course it does. It does exactly what it states. That is your SECOND failure. You're on a roll.

And that is irrelevant. It still closes a loophole that can be used to prevent gay partners from visitation. Good. Now your failure is complete.
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Hilarious. Keep your day job...k?

The ONLY possible thing of import would be number three...which this doesnt touch. Failure? Yeah...will you send me the autographed copy of your book?

The ONLY thing that bothers me is how easily people are conned by shiny sparklies.
 
VanceMack said:
Hilarious. Keep your day job...k?

The ONLY possible thing of import would be number three...which this doesnt touch. Failure? Yeah...will you send me the autographed copy of your book?

The ONLY thing that bothers me is how easily people are conned by shiny sparklies.
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Let me know when you come up with an argument that counters anything I've said, because, so far, you've shown NOTHING. I know that sucks for you, but reality sometimes does.
 
:shrug: I don't have a problem with this. If someone in the hospital has a gay partner, they should be allowed to visit the sick person. Don't see why this should be a problem. Hail, ANYONE in the hospital should be allowed to pick who gets to visit them, IMO, whether that person is family or not.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Let me know when you come up with an argument that counters anything I've said, because, so far, you've shown NOTHING. I know that sucks for you, but reality sometimes does.
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You know what is really hilarious? That you think you have actually made points.

Hey Cap...I just asked Obama...he agreed to work in an executive order making it legal for you to continue wearing pink polka dot thongs. OK...I know it does nothing because it changes nothing...but hey...it will show you that he cares!

What a great way to boost sagging poll numbers! Oh...look...another sparkly!
 
VanceMack said:
I know it does nothing because it changes nothing...
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It's already been shown that there are indeed still some hospitals where visitation is barred for gay couples, so yes, it did solve a real problem.
 
This sort of thing makes me believe Obama is a good politician.

Create an imaginary problem, avoid tough questions, and fix imaginary problems; continue avoiding tough questions.

I'm going to start calling him Ferdinand.
 
Areopagitican said:
This sort of thing makes me believe Obama is a good politician.

Create an imaginary problem, avoid tough questions, and fix imaginary problems; continue avoiding tough questions.

I'm going to start calling him Ferdinand.
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It's already been shown that there are indeed still some hospitals where visitation is barred for gay couples, so yes, it did solve a real problem.
 
misterman said:
It's already been shown that there are indeed still some hospitals where visitation is barred for gay couples, so yes, it did solve a real problem.
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Yeah, I saw that; wasn't so convinced. My uncle (Authoritarian Left as you can be) has been a doctor for a tad over 40 years. He applauds the decision, but says that the only reason they wouldn't be allowed in the room would be if they were openly gay. If they would, for instance, tell a white lie (like hetero non-married couples do all the time) they would get access.

But, of course, there was a problem. Ferdinand fixed it. Hoorah. Let's not, well, actually answer any questions.
 
Areopagitican said:
Yeah, I saw that; wasn't so convinced. My uncle (Authoritarian Left as you can be) has been a doctor for a tad over 40 years. He applauds the decision, but says that the only reason they wouldn't be allowed in the room would be if they were openly gay. If they would, for instance, tell a white lie (like hetero non-married couples do all the time) they would get access.

But, of course, there was a problem. Ferdinand fixed it. Hoorah. Let's not, well, actually answer any questions.
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Your uncle? That's your source?

Your uncle is wrong. He is clearly not familiar with the policies of every single hospital in the country.

I've already posted a news article with an example of a couple that ran into this problem.
 
Goshin said:
:shrug: I don't have a problem with this. If someone in the hospital has a gay partner, they should be allowed to visit the sick person. Don't see why this should be a problem. Hail, ANYONE in the hospital should be allowed to pick who gets to visit them, IMO, whether that person is family or not.
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This only becomes a problem in an ICU situation, when the patient is on a vent, and the next of kin of the unconscious, unmarried patient are his/her parents. They disapprove of the patient's boyfriend/girlfriend, and they pull rank. It can affect both heteros and homos alike, actually.
 
Areopagitican said:
Yeah, I saw that; wasn't so convinced. My uncle (Authoritarian Left as you can be) has been a doctor for a tad over 40 years. He applauds the decision, but says that the only reason they wouldn't be allowed in the room would be if they were openly gay. If they would, for instance, tell a white lie (like hetero non-married couples do all the time) they would get access.

But, of course, there was a problem. Ferdinand fixed it. Hoorah. Let's not, well, actually answer any questions.
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So it's not a problem since all they have to do is be dishonest. Well, I am sure that is a relief for gays. Just lie and you can be accepted.
 
Redress said:
So it's not a problem since all they have to do is be dishonest. Well, I am sure that is a relief for gays. Just lie and you can be accepted.
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Please, spare me your melodrama. Since when did you get through the day without a little lie of some kind? The week? The month? And I take it you don't think your part of some oppressed minority.


misterman said:
Your uncle? That's your source?

Your uncle is wrong. He is clearly not familiar with the policies of every single hospital in the country.

I've already posted a news article with an example of a couple that ran into this problem.
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You have an article, I have an uncle. Anyone would take the testimony of someone who is, well, actually there over some journalist with a dead line.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
This only becomes a problem in an ICU situation, when the patient is on a vent, and the next of kin of the unconscious, unmarried patient are his/her parents. They disapprove of the patient's boyfriend/girlfriend, and they pull rank. It can affect both heteros and homos alike, actually.
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Hm. If I'm not mistaken, you can have a Power of Attorney made up, giving the person of your choice full authority to act for you in the event you are incapacitated. Simple solution?
 
Goshin said:
Hm. If I'm not mistaken, you can have a Power of Attorney made up, giving the person of your choice full authority to act for you in the event you are incapacitated. Simple solution?
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You are entirely correct. However many younger folk don't think ahead. Many parents disapprove of their adult children's partners, gay or straight. Think Terri Shiavo...
 
MyOwnDrum said:
You are entirely correct. However many younger folk don't think ahead. Many parents disapprove of their adult children's partners, gay or straight. Think Terri Shiavo...
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Yeah, that was a screwy case. Stank to high heaven, in fact.
 
Areopagitican said:
Please, spare me your melodrama. Since when did you get through the day without a little lie of some kind? The week? The month? And I take it you don't think your part of some oppressed minority.
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I don't have to lie, I am strait. The whole idea that it's somehow ok, you just have to lie to do something you should be able to do already is just laughable, and says something about the person proposing it as a solution.
 
Redress said:
I don't have to lie, I am strait. The whole idea that it's somehow ok, you just have to lie to do something you should be able to do already is just laughable, and says something about the person proposing it as a solution.
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You don't lie? I think you just did.

You should be able to say whether a woman looks fat in a dress, or that your friend is losing his boyish good looks. But, sadly, you don't. You lie, homosexuals lie, we all lie. Saying that one particular form of lying is 'just too much' because (I don't know what your logic is, but here's a stab) it ruins the 'moral fabric' of our country is, well, just sad.

Sure, we can pat ourselves on the back because we fixed this horrible gays lie "probem," but the reality is Barrack "Ferdinand" Obama hasn't actually done anything. Because, from where I stand, all he has done is stop a little bit of white lying. Maybe, perhaps, we can get onto stuff that matters?
 
Areopagitican said:
You don't lie? I think you just did.

You should be able to say whether a woman looks fat in a dress, or that your friend is losing his boyish good looks. But, sadly, you don't. You lie, homosexuals lie, we all lie. Saying that one particular form of lying is 'just too much' because (I don't know what your logic is, but here's a stab) it ruins the 'moral fabric' of our country is, well, just sad.

Sure, we can pat ourselves on the back because we fixed this horrible gays lie "probem," but the reality is Barrack "Ferdinand" Obama hasn't actually done anything. Because, from where I stand, all he has done is stop a little bit of white lying. Maybe, perhaps, we can get onto stuff that matters?
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I did not say I did not lie, I said I did not have to. Notice the rather unsubtle difference.

It is a problem when some one has to lie just to be able to do something they should be able to do. Lying is not a solution for issues like this. Telling people "don't worry about it, you can just be dishonest" is not acceptable.
 
Basically,Obama's proclamation will have no effect in real life. It was done to impress Gay supporters who might be fiscal conservatives, but care deeply about Gay rights.

In real life, if someone is unmarried and conscious, they simply tell the hospital staff who they want to visit them. Most hospitals these days have ridiculously loose visiting policies.

If a patient is unconscious, then they are most likely in the ICU. Many ICUs have stricter visiting policies. If the next of kin are controlling parents, they can take over, whether the patient is gay or straight, as long as the patient is unmarried.

It would behoove any unmarried person to obtain a legal document giving power to the person of their choice to be legally recognized by hospital staff.
 
Redress said:
I did not say I did not lie, I said I did not have to. Notice the rather unsubtle difference.
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Right, of course you don't have to. You don't need to lie to your significant other, or your friends, or your family. You don't need to be on good terms with them. You can just be alone and miserable for the rest of your life.

The fact of the matter is that you have to lie to make it through life or it's MAD; mutually assured destruction. If you're bluntly honest with them, they'll be bluntly honest with you. Thus, you lie.

It is a problem when some one has to lie just to be able to do something they should be able to do. Lying is not a solution for issues like this. Telling people "don't worry about it, you can just be dishonest" is not acceptable.
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Not acceptable? If you think that lying is unacceptable, just because it is lying, then you picked the wrong species. If you have another reason beyond "lying is not a solution," just because it is lying; then I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, it's really a moot point.
 
Areopagitican said:
Yeah, I saw that; wasn't so convinced. My uncle (Authoritarian Left as you can be) has been a doctor for a tad over 40 years. He applauds the decision, but says that the only reason they wouldn't be allowed in the room would be if they were openly gay. If they would, for instance, tell a white lie (like hetero non-married couples do all the time) they would get access.

But, of course, there was a problem. Ferdinand fixed it. Hoorah. Let's not, well, actually answer any questions.
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Why should gay people have to tell a white lie? Or lie about who they are at all?
 
Areopagitican said:
Right, of course you don't have to. You don't need to lie to your significant other, or your friends, or your family. You don't need to be on good terms with them. You can just be alone and miserable for the rest of your life.

The fact of the matter is that you have to lie to make it through life or it's MAD; mutually assured destruction. If you're bluntly honest with them, they'll be bluntly honest with you. Thus, you lie.



Not acceptable? If you think that lying is unacceptable, just because it is lying, then you picked the wrong species. If you have another reason beyond "lying is not a solution," just because it is lying; then I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, it's really a moot point.
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Aero, I'd have to disagree with you a bit.

It is possible to live without lying. I made a committment to do exactly that, roughly seven years ago. Since then I've tried my best to let nothing come out of my mouth that wasn't the truth as I knew it.

That doesn't mean I'm always rudely blunt, nor does it mean I answer every nosy question.

I think if you find it necessary to lie to people on a daily basis, that some self-examination is in order. It does not have to be that way.

I'd have to agree with Redress that saying "well just lie" isn't a good solution to a problem.
 
VanceMack said:
You know what is really hilarious? That you think you have actually made points.
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What's actually amazing is that you think you've actually countered ANYTHING. You haven't. Like I said, I'll wait for you to make an argument... but I doubt you will actually make one.

Hey Cap...I just asked Obama...he agreed to work in an executive order making it legal for you to continue wearing pink polka dot thongs. OK...I know it does nothing because it changes nothing...but hey...it will show you that he cares!
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Isn't that adorable. Another analogy that doesn't fit the situation. Let's see if you can argue any more poorly. Come on Vance... I'm SURE you can do worse.

What a great way to boost sagging poll numbers! Oh...look...another sparkly!
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And look. Another clueless comment. Quite impressive.
 
Areopagitican said:
Please, spare me your melodrama. Since when did you get through the day without a little lie of some kind? The week? The month? And I take it you don't think your part of some oppressed minority.
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And that's completely irrelevant. Now they do not have to be dishonest. Just like heteros. What I find amazing is that some of you folks completely miss the point. Must be your bias against Obama, because is certainly isn't rationality at work.



You have an article, I have an uncle. Anyone would take the testimony of someone who is, well, actually there over some journalist with a dead line.
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Ok. I've worked in hospitals where it's been denied. Guess PLUS the article trumps your uncle.
 
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