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Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

Crunch said:
Depends on where you live. I spent a year and a half in Sacramento CA. and experienced one attempted home invasion, (my home) and what stopped it was that unmistakable sound of a 12 gauge shell being racked..... never saw 2 guys put one in front of the other as fast as those 2 boys did.
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BTW, did you have the 12 gauge at your bedside? Or did you have to get it. If so, how long did it take you?
 
Boo Radley said:
I would say the question is less about what you could do, but what about most could do. If you keep a loaded gun in your draw, I think you're inviting trouble. What happens if you're broken into when your not home? Could they find and take the gun? How when others leave home? What's the odds they put the gun elsewhere?
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i guess you missed "biometric vault"... It's a quick access safe that uses fingerprints....


As for the rest, I have no idea what you are trying to say? :lamo




As for time, how long do you thing a person has once they hear the break in until the person gets to them? Unless they been in the house before, and know everything abut the situation, they have to be careful. Slows them down. Again, if you don't hear them, and they are in the room, 2 seconds won't be fast enough.
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I'll take my chances with "2 seconds" over "2 minutes" anyday.

As for how long from the time of break-in? 15 seconds if that. My home is large, so a little longer.. They make a bee-line for the bedroom where everyone keeps the valuables.


Now remember this is a home invasion where they KNOW you are home... Act accordingly.
 
Boo Radley said:
I have asked for number for you on home invasions. You have not povided them. I suspect they are much lower than the numbers for kids.

As for rapists and burgulars, not sure a weapon is that much help. I taught my brother in law once that if I wanted him shot, he would be shot. Warned him I would shoot him during the week, and shot him with a paint ball. He's heavily armed and couldn't stop me. Better armed only means better planning.
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Home Invasion Facts:
o According to a United States Department of Justice report:
§ 38% of assaults & 60% of rapes occur during home
invasions.
§ 1 of every 5 homes will experience a breakin
or home
invasion. That's over 2,000,000 homes!
o According to Statistics Canada, there has been an average of
289,200 home invasions annually over the last 5 years.
o Statistically, there are over 8,000 home invasions per day in
North America
o According to Statistics U.S.A., there was an average of 3,600,000
home invasions annually between 1994 and 2000.
Click to expand...

http://www.lockjawsecurity.com/pdf/LockBumpingFactSheet.pdf

Google is your friend......... well, maybe not in this case. :mrgreen:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
i guess you missed "biometric vault"... It's a quick access safe that uses fingerprints....
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Sounds like a reasonable place for storage. No complaint from me. How affordable?

As for the rest, I have no idea what you are trying to say? :lamo
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It's pretty simple, if someone breaks in when you or any gun owner isn't home, isn't the bed side table a place they will look and likely steal your gun?







I'll take my chances with "2 seconds" over "2 minutes" anyday.

As for how long from the time of break-in? 15 seconds if that. My home is large, so a little longer.. They make a bee-line for the bedroom where everyone keeps the valuables.


Now remember this is a home invasion where they KNOW you are home... Act accordingly.
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Breaking in, I agree. Getting from the entry point to your room, I suspect that takes longer.
 
Boo Radley said:
Sounds like a reasonable place for storage. No complaint from me. How affordable?
Click to expand...


$100



It's pretty simple, if someone breaks in when you or any gun owner isn't home, isn't the bed side table a place they will look and likely steal your gun?
Click to expand...


Sure is, why I lock mine up when I am not home. The Government however has no business forcing me to.



Breaking in, I agree. Getting from the entry point to your room, I suspect that takes longer.
Click to expand...





We drill it. it doesnt.
 
Boo Radley said:
BTW, did you have the 12 gauge at your bedside? Or did you have to get it. If so, how long did it take you?
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It was beside the front door, loaded by the way, (safety on, empty chamber.... hence that distinctive sound. :mrgreen: ).

There was a knock at the door that I didn't recognize, I looked through the peep hole and didn't recognize the two dudes..... I read lips and saw the guy closest to the door tell his buddy, "don't worry, I can take him".

That's the rest of the story.
 
Crunch said:
It was beside the front door, loaded by the way, (safety on, empty chamber.... hence that distinctive sound. :mrgreen: ).

There was a knock at the door that I didn't recognize, I looked through the peep hole and didn't recognize the two dudes..... I read lips and saw the guy closest to the door tell his buddy, "don't worry, I can take him".

That's the rest of the story.
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I was just doing a search to find the time a home invasion takes, in regard to bed side weapons. Appears most are done the way you speak of, by knocking on the door. Not sure having a weapon in your bedside table would help.

Still, not opening the door is also listed as a action to take. Having dogs seems to remove you from the list of likely victims. Not sure having a gun is the best method.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'd have to see that.
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You are welcome to take any course I have been a part of. If you are serious, I'd be happy to PM you links where you can get home defense training replete with demonstrations on how fast a threat can move.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
You are welcome to take any course I have been a part of. If you are serious, I'd be happy to PM you links where you can get home defense training replete with demonstrations on how fast a threat can move.
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I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't see it as a threat to me, as i believe my precautions are enough, but I'm sincere in wanting to see it.
 
Boo Radley said:
I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't see it as a threat to me, as i believe my precautions are enough, but I'm sincere in wanting to see it.
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If you PM me your general location, I can dig up a course for you...


Think of home sizes, now, in a mansion, 15 seconds is a non starter...


The average home size however is 2300 square feet..... thats less than 1400 per level on a 2 story house....


How long would it take to bust down a door, take a look and run up the stairs?
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, there's another place we disagree. They are not that difficult. An adult can remove it rather quickly, and if there is enough time to use it at all, there's enough time to remove the lock. You're still free to own and legally sue the weapon.
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You've hampered the mechanics of using the gun. You cannot deny that in any rational form. You may claim an "adult can remove it rather quickly", but that means nothing. What's "rather quickly", and what is the response time you need to respond to a threat? You've made the assumption that there's enough time and that it's easy to take off. But it's not necessarily true, especially given any situation in which you may be under pressure to defend yourself.

You have thus infringed upon my right to keep and bear arms and to protect myself, my property, and my liberty by necessarily impinging upon the mechanics of the gun and forcing outside locks to be in place.
 
Ikari said:
You've hampered the mechanics of using the gun. You cannot deny that in any rational form. You may claim an "adult can remove it rather quickly", but that means nothing. What's "rather quickly", and what is the response time you need to respond to a threat? You've made the assumption that there's enough time and that it's easy to take off. But it's not necessarily true, especially given any situation in which you may be under pressure to defend yourself.

You have thus infringed upon my right to keep and bear arms and to protect myself, my property, and my liberty by necessarily impinging upon the mechanics of the gun and forcing outside locks to be in place.
Click to expand...

True that some judgment must always be made. I look at it this way, home invasions are very rare, more so than kids being killed. And most don't break in from what I read, but knock on the front door. So, the number in which you would need to or be able to get your weapon for this is ever more rare. And if rarity doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter for child deaths either.

But going on, some do want to place faith in a gun. I understand this. And we will always have disagreements along this line. As long as you can own a gun and use it, I don't see this as an infringement. I accept that you disagree. But for me, the large problem is child deaths, and see it as reasonable to try and lower those. I don't see trigger locks as an infringement.
 
Boo Radley said:
I look at it this way, home invasions are very rare, more so than kids being killed. .
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How many home invasions were there last year?


How many accidental shootings involving kids were there?



We need to compare relevant things. Kids killing kids in gangs and what not is not the same here.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
How many home invasions were there last year?


How many accidental shootings involving kids were there?



We need to compare relevant things. Kids killing kids in gangs and what not is not the same here.
Click to expand...

That's why I've asked you for the numbers. You claim it is a more serious problem. I gave kids. If you give home invasions, we can compare.
 
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Boo Radley said:
I was just doing a search to find the time a home invasion takes, in regard to bed side weapons. Appears most are done the way you speak of, by knocking on the door. Not sure having a weapon in your bedside table would help.

Still, not opening the door is also listed as a action to take. Having dogs seems to remove you from the list of likely victims. Not sure having a gun is the best method.
Click to expand...

They never came back, nor did any of their friends. :2wave:

I’ll keep my guns close and loaded thank you.
 
Boo Radley said:
That's why I've asked you for the numbers. You claim it is a more serious problem. I gave kids. If you give home invasions, we can compare.
Click to expand...

I gave you the numbers from the DOJ on home invasion.... here they are again.

Home Invasion Facts:
o According to a United States Department of Justice report:
§ 38% of assaults & 60% of rapes occur during home
invasions.
§ 1 of every 5 homes will experience a breakin
or home
invasion. That's over 2,000,000 homes!
o According to Statistics Canada, there has been an average of
289,200 home invasions annually over the last 5 years.
o Statistically, there are over 8,000 home invasions per day in
North America
o According to Statistics U.S.A., there was an average of 3,600,000
home invasions annually between 1994 and 2000.
Click to expand...

http://www.lockjawsecurity.com/pdf/L...gFactSheet.pdf

Now, how many kids did you say were killed by guns each year?
 
Sir Loin said:
And now Crunch did too! Wait...............for..................the....................patented.................Boospin!
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Would that be his tires as he heads for another thread?
 
Crunch said:
I gave you the numbers from the DOJ on home invasion.... here they are again.



http://www.lockjawsecurity.com/pdf/L...gFactSheet.pdf

Now, how many kids did you say were killed by guns each year?
Click to expand...

I can't get your sheet up to investigate, but have found very little on the subject myself:

Few statistics are available on home invasion as a crime, because it is not technically a specific crime in most states. Persons charged with "home invasion" are actually charged with robbery, kidnapping, homicide, rape, or assault charges. But law enforcement has been seeing the increase in "home-invasion robberies" since at least June 1995, when "home-invasion robberies" were the topic of the cover story of The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin. They state the crime is considered an alternative to bank or convenience store robberies, which are getting harder to pull off cleanly due to technological advances in security. In this same article, the FBI recommends educating the public about home invasion. Before the term "home invasion" came in use, the term "hot burglary" was often used in the literature. Early references also use "burglary of occupied homes"[1] and "burglar striking an occupied residence"[2]

It is commonly held belief that home invasion is a minimal threat to the average person and usually involves invaders who have a personal knowledge of the home and its owner, however the factual basis of this belief is uncertain.[citation needed] Gated communities are promoted by property developers as a way of being safe from this crime.

According to an Oxford English Dictionary (OED) draft entry for March 2004, the first published usage of the term in its modern sense is a November 1973 article in the Chicago Sun-Times. The OED also cites a use of the term in the 1989 novel Toxic Shock (ISBN 0-575-04372-5) by Sara Paretsky.

Asian Americans, particularly Vietnamese Americans and others of Southeast Asian descent, have been disproportionately represented among victims and perpetrators of home-invasion robberies.[3

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_invasion]Home invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Again, an overview to the problem with statistics. our souce may want to make it sound worse than it is, but without being able to view it and examine it, I can't say.

This sources says 8,000 in all of north America:

* 38 percent of assaults and 60 percent of rapes occur during home invasions
* One in five homes undergoes a home invasion or break-in
* There are more than 8,000 home invasions every day in North America
* 50 percent of home invasions involve the use of a weapon; the most common weapons used are knives or other cutting instruments
* In 48 percent of home invasions, victims sustain physical injuries
* Victims age 60 or older make up 17 percent of home invasion victims
* In 68 percent of home invasions, victims and the accused are strangers; in 11 percent of these cases, victims and the accused are friends, business associates, or family

Home Invasion Statistics | SuperTips by Superpages.com

That's a good deal smaller than your number.

I would like to see a link to the actual US statistics to see how they are coming up with this number.
 
Boo Radley said:
I can't get your sheet up to investigate, but have found very little on the subject myself:

Few statistics are available on home invasion as a crime, because it is not technically a specific crime in most states. Persons charged with "home invasion" are actually charged with robbery, kidnapping, homicide, rape, or assault charges. But law enforcement has been seeing the increase in "home-invasion robberies" since at least June 1995, when "home-invasion robberies" were the topic of the cover story of The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin. They state the crime is considered an alternative to bank or convenience store robberies, which are getting harder to pull off cleanly due to technological advances in security. In this same article, the FBI recommends educating the public about home invasion. Before the term "home invasion" came in use, the term "hot burglary" was often used in the literature. Early references also use "burglary of occupied homes"[1] and "burglar striking an occupied residence"[2]

It is commonly held belief that home invasion is a minimal threat to the average person and usually involves invaders who have a personal knowledge of the home and its owner, however the factual basis of this belief is uncertain.[citation needed] Gated communities are promoted by property developers as a way of being safe from this crime.

According to an Oxford English Dictionary (OED) draft entry for March 2004, the first published usage of the term in its modern sense is a November 1973 article in the Chicago Sun-Times. The OED also cites a use of the term in the 1989 novel Toxic Shock (ISBN 0-575-04372-5) by Sara Paretsky.

Asian Americans, particularly Vietnamese Americans and others of Southeast Asian descent, have been disproportionately represented among victims and perpetrators of home-invasion robberies.[3

Home invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, an overview to the problem with statistics. our souce may want to make it sound worse than it is, but without being able to view it and examine it, I can't say.

This sources says 8,000 in all of north America:

* 38 percent of assaults and 60 percent of rapes occur during home invasions
* One in five homes undergoes a home invasion or break-in
* There are more than 8,000 home invasions every day in North America
* 50 percent of home invasions involve the use of a weapon; the most common weapons used are knives or other cutting instruments
* In 48 percent of home invasions, victims sustain physical injuries
* Victims age 60 or older make up 17 percent of home invasion victims
* In 68 percent of home invasions, victims and the accused are strangers; in 11 percent of these cases, victims and the accused are friends, business associates, or family

Home Invasion Statistics | SuperTips by Superpages.com

That's a good deal smaller than your number.

I would like to see a link to the actual US statistics to see how they are coming up with this number.
Click to expand...

OK.. we'll use your number, so, which is larger..... home invasion or children killed by guns?
 
THe USA actually has less home invasion robberies compared to burglaries (ie Breaking into empty homes) in terms of proportions than many other countries. Why, because even though robberies net more money, they also increase dramatically the chances of being apprehended or killed. Compare that to countries where the citizenry is disarmed or not allowed to shoot criminals. Home invasions went way up in England after handguns were banned and highly publicized cases jailed homeowners for shooting thugs.

Polls of people doing time for hard core crime indicate that mopes are more afraid of being shot by homeowners than they are of cops and prosecutors.
 
Crunch said:
OK.. we'll use your number, so, which is larger..... home invasion or children killed by guns?
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Actually, what I said was the number was in doubt. My number isn't the number for the US, but all of north America.







NORTH AMERICA
COUNTRIES (23)

Map of North America Description North America, the planet's 3rd largest continent, includes (23) countries and dozens of small island possessions and territories - mostly in the Caribbean. It contains all Caribbean and Central America countries, Canada, Mexico and the United States of America - three of the largest countries on the planet, as well as Greenland - the world's largest island.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/na.htm

So, how many of the 8000 are in the US? It matters. The other link says we really don't have the numbers. So, I'm looking for something that is verifiable and on point. If I find something, I'll post it. If you do, I would expect the same.
 
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