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Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism

It isn't as if the Catholic Church had anything to do with Concentration Camps, if that is what you are suggesting. Poland was well behind the lines of the war and was occupied by Germany much earlier on than places to the west.

That you would in some way connect the CHurch to the Holocaust is not only historically wrong, it is highly offensive.

I am not cennecting the church but the people of Poland who follow the church.
 
I am not cennecting the church but the people of Poland who follow the church.

The Polish people were not the instigators of the Jewish Holocaust, they were victims of the Nazis. You really need to study your history. 6 million Polish people died at the hands of the Nazis, half of whom were Polish Jews, the other half Catholics.

Presumably, Auschwitz was the location of a large camp because it was in the hated Polish territory where many Jews lived. There were many Jews in Poland because it had been a relatively hospitable place where Jews were able to thrive.

In Poland, there was a death sentence for any citizen who helped a Jew. Not so in the rest of Europe. The Nazis had a special disdain for the Slavic Poles, who they thought as racially inferior.
 
And you think the people of Poland WILLINGLY allowed this to happen? Like they had a choice?!?!?

You are entitled to your opinion. Just seems that a religion that professes to be so careful about life of unborn children would care more about their fellow countrymen. While the vatican did not support the killing they did little to oppose it either.

I am of the belief that if the church had stood up the Germans were not going to wipe out all Christians. Take away the nazi cover and the Germans are a bery Christian nation.
 
You are entitled to your opinion. Just seems that a religion that professes to be so careful about life of unborn children would care more about their fellow countrymen. While the vatican did not support the killing they did little to oppose it either.

I am of the belief that if the church had stood up the Germans were not going to wipe out all Christians. Take away the nazi cover and the Germans are a bery Christian nation.

1. The Pope DID oppose the killing and did a lot to SAVE THE LIVES of large numbers of Jews.
2. The Catholic Church had ZERO influence over Nazi Germany. Hitler was ANTI-Catholic. As for Germany, only the southern part is largely Catholic. The northern part is mostly Lutheran.
3. If the Pope was more outspoken than he was, being in the midst of fascist Italy (a state allied with Hitler at the time), don't you think they would have made a move against him?

People who think that the Pope should have done something like pull out his Superman cape or somethign are just not looking at the situation with any form of reality. In this case, sadly, the same observation regardling Nazi Germany and the Papacy could be akin to remarked made by Philip IV. Philip IV had the military power and had the Pope arrested when he opposed what King Philip was doing. This later led to the Avignon Papacy. Say what you want about popes, but they are generally quite astute about history and surely would have known that the way he could have done the most good was to keep a low profile, oppose what the Nazis were doing, and help as many people as possible.
 
1. The Pope DID oppose the killing and did a lot to SAVE THE LIVES of large numbers of Jews.
2. The Catholic Church had ZERO influence over Nazi Germany. Hitler was ANTI-Catholic. As for Germany, only the southern part is largely Catholic. The northern part is mostly Lutheran.
3. If the Pope was more outspoken than he was, being in the midst of fascist Italy (a state allied with Hitler at the time), don't you think they would have made a move against him?

People who think that the Pope should have done something like pull out his Superman cape or somethign are just not looking at the situation with any form of reality. In this case, sadly, the same observation regardling Nazi Germany and the Papacy could be akin to remarked made by Philip IV. Philip IV had the military power and had the Pope arrested when he opposed what King Philip was doing. This later led to the Avignon Papacy. Say what you want about popes, but they are generally quite astute about history and surely would have known that the way he could have done the most good was to keep a low profile, oppose what the Nazis were doing, and help as many people as possible.

I simply do not buy your arguement, Who in heck believes that anyone could " make a move" on the Pope while he sat in Italy.

The Pope has a lot to say about how the world should lead their lives. Risk HIV rather than have protected sex, no abortion for rape victims. But he is just a weak mortal who is afraid to speak his mind.

Do you realize you silly and/ or sad your rationalizations sound? If the Pope does not stand for moral authority what exactly does he and his organization stand for?
 
I simply do not buy your arguement, Who in heck believes that anyone could " make a move" on the Pope while he sat in Italy.

The Pope has a lot to say about how the world should lead their lives. Risk HIV rather than have protected sex, no abortion for rape victims. But he is just a weak mortal who is afraid to speak his mind.

Do you realize you silly and/ or sad your rationalizations sound? If the Pope does not stand for moral authority what exactly does he and his organization stand for?

1. You are ignorant of history. Who controlled Italy? Mussolini. Who was he allied with? Hitler. It isn't like there is not a precedent for a state leader to arrest the Pope. It HAS happened before, and by a leader who did not have NEARLY the ruthlessness streak of Hitler and Mussolini. Your statement belies rank ignornace of the situation in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

2. The Catholic Church DOES stand for moral authority and during WWII, DID speak out against the Holocaust and other abuses of the Nazi Germans, but in a discrete manner. Furthermore, the Catholic Church throughout Nazi-occupied Europe sheltered and protected as many Jews as they conceivably could during the Holocaust (Shoah). Your statements lack any kind of historical knowledge or common sense.
 
1. You are ignorant of history. Who controlled Italy? Mussolini. Who was he allied with? Hitler. It isn't like there is not a precedent for a state leader to arrest the Pope. It HAS happened before, and by a leader who did not have NEARLY the ruthlessness streak of Hitler and Mussolini. Your statement belies rank ignornace of the situation in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

I guess part of the reason for my ignorance is that most of my family which was living in Europe at the time did not survive to explain how helpful the Pope was. So I will never know ( nor do you) whether an Itianian army probably 99% Catholic would was stormed the Vatican. By the way which Itianian leader made the Vatican a state?

2. The Catholic Church DOES stand for moral authority and during WWII, DID speak out against the Holocaust and other abuses of the Nazi Germans, but in a discrete manner. Furthermore, the Catholic Church throughout Nazi-occupied Europe sheltered and protected as many Jews as they conceivably could during the Holocaust (Shoah). Your statements lack any kind of historical knowledge or common sense.

I guess this point became moot when the news service reported that this Pope did in fact aid a preist stay in his job. The reason esentially being that he did not want to make the church look bad.

Let your Bishops blame that bad day the Pope had on the Jews.
 
I guess this point became moot when the news service reported that this Pope did in fact aid a preist stay in his job. The reason esentially being that he did not want to make the church look bad.

Let your Bishops blame that bad day the Pope had on the Jews.

Once again, I think you either have a reading comprehension problem OR you are willfully misreading what was said. It was NOT being blamed on the Jews, but the media coverage was being compared to Anti-Semitism.

As for what the news service reports, I often take what they say with a grain of salt. I will have to gather more evidence before I pass judgement. I suggest you do the same.
 
I hate to Goodwin this thread but I had to speak up, before people say the catholics are innocent go back and read up on Ratlines

It's about time people woke up and see that the Church is not working for the good of the people that worshiped with them.


Thought him comparing the abuse to Antisemitism is just moronic. :doh
 
Once again, I think you either have a reading comprehension problem OR you are willfully misreading what was said. It was NOT being blamed on the Jews, but the media coverage was being compared to Anti-Semitism.

As for what the news service reports, I often take what they say with a grain of salt. I will have to gather more evidence before I pass judgement. I suggest you do the same.

Being so learned on the topic you know that there are other Bishops as well who continue the blame the Jews speech, that helped generate the hatred which was a good background for the Germans to jump on.

I do know that my great parents home was ransacked by Poles ( almost all of whom are Catholic) after they were sent to concentration camps. So I do not need your textbooks to tell me why the Poles and the Church are innocent.

That being said, as a matter of fact I am married to a Catholic, and unlike the stereotypes people use like blame the Jews I do not lump all of any creed in one basket.
 
Being so learned on the topic you know that there are other Bishops as well who continue the blame the Jews speech, that helped generate the hatred which was a good background for the Germans to jump on.

I do know that my great parents home was ransacked by Poles ( almost all of whom are Catholic) after they were sent to concentration camps. So I do not need your textbooks to tell me why the Poles and the Church are innocent.

That being said, as a matter of fact I am married to a Catholic, and unlike the stereotypes people use like blame the Jews I do not lump all of any creed in one basket.

Then you know little about the teachings of the Church. The Church HELPED Jews during the Shoah (Holocaust), spoke OUT against the "Blood Libel" and many other instances in history when the Church spoke out on behalf of the discrimination Jews received in many of Europe's kingdoms in the past...
 
Then you know little about the teachings of the Church. The Church HELPED Jews during the Shoah (Holocaust), spoke OUT against the "Blood Libel" and many other instances in history when the Church spoke out on behalf of the discrimination Jews received in many of Europe's kingdoms in the past...

No offense but I am getting a bit annoyed with this. So let's just agree to disagree.

Have a great day.
 
No offense but I am getting a bit annoyed with this. So let's just agree to disagree.

Have a great day.

I am getting annoyed with cop-outs who come on here with their anti-Catholic rants, don't read the articles in question, and have little knowledge of history and no appreciation for the situation we are talking about (to wit: both the current situation with the Church as well as the alleged lack of action and your implication that Catholics were somehow involved in the Holocaust)

You make disgusting statements, and then you cop out and "agree to disagree." SICKENING!
 
I am getting annoyed with cop-outs who come on here with their anti-Catholic rants, don't read the articles in question, and have little knowledge of history and no appreciation for the situation we are talking about (to wit: both the current situation with the Church as well as the alleged lack of action and your implication that Catholics were somehow involved in the Holocaust)

You make disgusting statements, and then you cop out and "agree to disagree." SICKENING!

Now I am annoyed by you. You can kid yourself about the officials of your religion. You can't fool others.

I made as mild statements about a powerful group of a multi-billion dollar organization that allowed their workersto terrorize children for decades.

Not sure why moderators on this site allow for your personal attack. Maybe they believe in this guy in rome like you do.
 
Only a morally bankrupt Pope could describe news of his direct involvement in the cover-up of sexual abuse of children within the church, as "petty gossip".
 
Only a morally bankrupt Pope could describe news of his direct involvement in the cover-up of sexual abuse of children within the church, as "petty gossip".

I am not sure where the line blurs between religion and cult. It could be that the defenders of this guy are acting like cult memebrs versus rational thinking humans.
 
Some people STILL have reading comprehension problems, don't they?

I have very good reading comprehension. However, it seem you ignored everything else I said in that one post to say the lest. I would say you don't have really good reading comprehension yourself. :) Hell, half of my family are Irish Catholics(on my mother side), so yes I am kind of pissed off at the pope..
 
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I have very good reading comprehension. However, it seem you ignored everything else I said in that one post to say the lest. I would say you don't have really good reading comprehension yourself. :) Hell, half of my family are Irish Catholics(on my mother side), so yes I am kind of pissed off at the pope..

Pissed off at the Pope for what? Not knowing about the case in Wisconsin that so many people in the US seems to be intent on ripping on him about?
 
I am not sure where the line blurs between religion and cult. It could be that the defenders of this guy are acting like cult memebrs versus rational thinking humans.

Is there actually any EVIDENCE of his being directly involved in a cover-up or is the news media merely fishing, as it so often does?
 
Pissed off at the Pope for what? Not knowing about the case in Wisconsin that so many people in the US seems to be intent on ripping on him about?


"LOS ANGELES - The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including "the good of the universal church," according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.

The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the Diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle. ... "


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36325154/ns/us_news-faith/

He did the same in a German case too.
 
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Is there actually any EVIDENCE of his being directly involved in a cover-up or is the news media merely fishing, as it so often does?

The new York Times actually had photo of the letter signed by the current Pope about not defrocking a priest in California.
 
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