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Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

jallman said:
Your religion cannot be imposed on another person. Pharmacists and doctors are there to dispense meds and medical care, not to impose their religious restrictions on perfectly legal medical procedures and care. If they don't like it, find another profession more in line with their religious insecurities.
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And the government can't force me to perform acts that go against my religious convictions, either. It says that in the Constitution.
 
jallman said:
That's not the hippocratic oath doctors take today. So MASSIVE FAIL.

Today's Hippocratic Oath
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So, you find some morphadited, new wave, PC version of the Hippocratic Oath and suddenly you're the winner here? Let's just say you're correct, it still doesn't take away the religious freedom aspect.
 
apdst said:
And the government can't force me to perform acts that go against my religious convictions, either. It says that in the Constitution.
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Doctors aren't forced to give abortions. If they don't want to preform the procedure they send the patient to see some one else. Nothing is forcing them do it if it against their religious beliefs.
 
apdst said:
So, you find some morphadited, new wave, PC version of the Hippocratic Oath and suddenly you're the winner here? Let's just say you're correct, it still doesn't take away the religious freedom aspect.
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That's the Hippocratic Oath that doctors have been taking since 1966.

Do you educate yourself about anything before you start wagging your fingers on the keyboard to post? Anything?
 
apdst said:
Do you oppose soldiers declaring a contiencious objector status in the United States military? Killing the enemy is a soldier's job. Yes?
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No i don't object at all. Conscientious objectors use their beliefs to get out of being soldiers so they don't have to do the job.
 
apdst said:
And the government can't force me to perform acts that go against my religious convictions, either. It says that in the Constitution.
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True. It can't force you to be a doctor if you are opposed to dispensing meds. It can withhold an MD and license to practice if you are unwilling to carry out the functions of a doctor.

Glad we are clear on that.
 
apdst said:
Do you oppose soldiers declaring a contiencious objector status in the United States military? Killing the enemy is a soldier's job. Yes?
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Once they have enlisted? Yes. Before, no problem at all, and if we had a draft, I would support jobs in the military for conscientious objectors.
 
apdst said:
And the government can't force me to perform acts that go against my religious convictions, either. It says that in the Constitution.
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Then they can't force the company to keep you on the payroll if you aren't performing your job either. They have a right to fire you.
 
aps said:
I'd be happy to go elsewhere. Anyone who would put politics over someone's heath isn't worthy of my business.
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I think his point is that health care will suffer as a result of this. Therefore he is NOT putting politics over health care; he's fighting to STOP politics from HURTING health care. That said, it was probably unwise from a business standpoint to put it up, since such things tend to alienate customers. But that's his choice.
 
jallman said:
Depends on what job they signed on for. I would fully expect a chaplain to object while someone who signed on as infantry, I would see court martialed for refusing to perform that duty.
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I'll give you an A for consistancy, anyway. However, you're still wrong. I fully support a soldier's right to refuse to kill another human being for moral reasons. Just like I support a soldier's right to refuse to carry out an immoral order for the same reasons.

When William Calley ordered his men to hose down women and children in a ditch at Mi Lai, they were just doing their job. Yes, I know you don't believe that. my point is, today we are forcing doctors to perform procedures that are contrary to their religious convictions, or stop practicing medicine. Tomorrow, we're forcing young soldiers to herd millions of people into death camps, or face prosecution.

The Constitution gives us certain liberties and I fully support those liberties and all they imply, without question. I reckon I'm as stupid as you like to claim for believing in our constitutional freedoms to the hilt.
 
USA-1 said:
Then they can't force the company to keep you on the payroll if you aren't performing your job either. They have a right to fire you.
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They can't fire you for your religious convictions. A Muslim employee can't be fired because he/she takes time out to pray 5 times a day.
 
USA-1 said:
No i don't object at all. Conscientious objectors use their beliefs to get out of being soldiers so they don't have to do the job.
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No, they do not. One of the best troops I ever served with was a young medic that came to my battalion in 1999. He was a concientious objector and was killed in Afghanistan in 2002.

So, no, that's not what being a CO is all about.
 
apdst said:
They can't fire you for your religious convictions. A Muslim employee can't be fired because he/she takes time out to pray 5 times a day.
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They can fire you for not performing the job you get paid for.
 
apdst said:
They can't fire you for your religious convictions. A Muslim employee can't be fired because he/she takes time out to pray 5 times a day.
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But you can be fired for not performing your duties that are mission critical to your job. And the state can refuse your license to practice certain professions if you refuse to carry out those job functions. There is no right in the constitution to have any profession you want without regard to your ability or willingness to carry out the duties of that profession.
 
apdst said:
No, they do not. One of the best troops I ever served with was a young medic that came to my battalion in 1999. He was a concientious objector and was killed in Afghanistan in 2002.

So, no, that's not what being a CO is all about.
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Your soldier did his job and his job was not killing people, it was saving people.
 
jallman said:
But you can be fired for not performing your duties that are mission critical to your job. And the state can refuse your license to practice certain professions if you refuse to carry out those job functions. There is no right in the constitution to have any profession you want without regard to your ability or willingness to carry out the duties of that profession.
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Apples and oranges. We're not talking about an assembly line worker turning out 10 wiggest rather than 15. We're talking about forcing medical professionals to take a life, when it go against their religious and moral convictions. Which brings us back to the Constitution. That damn Constitution is a pain in the ass to some folks, ain't it?
 
USA-1 said:
Your soldier did his job and his job was not killing people, it was saving people.
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Actually, part of a medics job is to fight off the enemy, so as to protect the wounded soldiers that are in his care. That's why they are issued weapons now-a-days.
 
apdst said:
Apples and oranges. We're not talking about an assembly line worker turning out 10 wiggest rather than 15. We're talking about forcing medical professionals to take a life, when it go against their religious and moral convictions. Which brings us back to the Constitution. That damn Constitution is a pain in the ass to some folks, ain't it?
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You haven't been paying attention. No doctor is forced to perform abortions. That's the law and even Obama supports that law. Read your own link.
 
USA-1 said:
You haven't been paying attention. No doctor is forced to perform abortions. That's the law and even Obama supports that law. Read your own link.
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Not yet, you mean.

Once the government violates one right and gets away with it, they'll want to take it one step further and then another. Where does it end?
 
apdst said:
Actually, part of a medics job is to fight off the enemy, so as to protect the wounded soldiers that are in his care. That's why they are issued weapons now-a-days.
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Medics are issued 9mm handguns for self defense, not to engage in battle with the enemy. Their job is not to kill, but like everyone they have a right to defend themselves..
 
apdst said:
Not yet, you mean.

Once the government violates one right and gets away with it, they'll want to take it one step further and then another. Where does it end?
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Well, Obama isn't going to eliminate the right of doctors not to perform abortions, so relax.
 
apdst said:
Not yet, you mean.

Once the government violates one right and gets away with it, they'll want to take it one step further and then another. Where does it end?
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope]Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
apdst said:
Apples and oranges. We're not talking about an assembly line worker turning out 10 wiggest rather than 15.
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True, we're talking about a medical professional refusing to give proper medical care. Your comparison is irrelevant. If the factory worker refused to turn out widgets based on a moral objection to widgets, I would be perfectly ok telling him no one forces him to be a factory worker and so he must find other employment, too.

We're talking about forcing medical professionals to take a life, when it go against their religious and moral convictions.
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No we're not. Doctors choose their specializations way ahead of having to perform the procedures. No one forces a doctor to become an abortion doctor or any other practitioner he disagrees with. His pursuit of that field is tacit approval of what the field does and if he doesn't agree with it, he can choose another specialty.

Which brings us back to the Constitution. That damn Constitution is a pain in the ass to some folks, ain't it?
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Exactly. So let me repeat again a simple truth you failed to acknowledge or refute: there is no Constitutional right to employment in a field regardless of your inability or unwillingness to perform the duties that are critical to that profession.

I know, the Constitution is a pain in the ass when it doesn't lend credibility to your argument, huh, apdst?
 
USA-1 said:
Medics are issued 9mm handguns for self defense, not to engage in battle with the enemy. Their job is not to kill, but like everyone they have a right to defend themselves..
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No, they're issued M-16's to kill the enemy, not only to defend themselves, but to contribute to the unit's combat power and to protect the wounded troops in their care.
 
jallman said:
True, we're talking about a medical professional refusing to give proper medical care. Your comparison is irrelevant. If the factory worker refused to turn out widgets based on a moral objection to widgets, I would be perfectly ok telling him no one forces him to be a factory worker and so he must find other employment, too.



No we're not. Doctors choose their specializations way ahead of having to perform the procedures. No one forces a doctor to become an abortion doctor or any other practitioner he disagrees with. His pursuit of that field is tacit approval of what the field does and if he doesn't agree with it, he can choose another specialty.



Exactly. So let me repeat again a simple truth you failed to acknowledge or refute: there is no Constitutional right to employment in a field regardless of your inability or unwillingness to perform the duties that are critical to that profession.

I know, the Constitution is a pain in the ass when it doesn't lend credibility to your argument, huh, apdst?
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So, the religious freedom part is open to interpretation? That's skeery!
 
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