• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

Harry Guerrilla said:
Doctors are pretty important.
If you don't have them, there is no medical system.
Med school rationing will still be happening, otherwise, the AMA would of never supported the bill.

I wish you guys would understand that we all got hustled with this last round of legislation.
Click to expand...

We have been getting hustled by the insurance companies and healthcare industry for decades. Hence the main reason for healthcare reform and why Obama got elected..

The republicans had 6 years to do healthcare reform their way and did nothing. Now we are going to have to live with the dems plan.

Time will tell if it is good legislation or not. We shall see.
 
Bassman said:
The money is just compensation for all the hours of study, labwork, internships and residencies that make up the life of the med student. Why the hell shouldn't a doctor who sacrificed most of his/her life to be duly compensated??? Oh, but I forgot, you think doctors should not make anything more than the minimum wage, doncha??
Click to expand...

Has anyone ever said doctors should only make minimum wage? Once again your comments are totally ridiculous.
 
USA-1 said:
We have been getting hustled by the insurance companies and healthcare industry for decades. Hence the main reason for healthcare reform and why Obama got elected..
Click to expand...

Both of those industries have been in conclusion with the government for decades, that is how they screw us.
The government pretends to hate them and they pretend to be fighting new regulation.

When it comes down to it, they are both working together to make money.
The officials gain campaign dollars and the medical industry gains more of your dollars.

USA-1 said:
The republicans had 6 years to do healthcare reform their way and did nothing. Now we are going to have to live with the dems plan.
Click to expand...

I don't think Republicans would have done any better.

USA-1 said:
Time will tell if it is good legislation or not. We shall see.
Click to expand...

I think that is an extremely poor way to judge a bill.
I mean there should be some certainty that it will work otherwise they shouldn't pass it.

That is insane.
 
LaMidRighter said:
You don't know much about medicine or commerce do you? I don't work my ass off for your sake or enjoyment, or even to be the best professional I can be, I do it for money. Doctor's quality goes up because there is money in being the best, and caring about their patients is also a close a factor, but if you think they'll do it at a loss you're kidding yourself.
Click to expand...

Doing it at a loss?:roll: Whoever said that? Another totally ridiculous comment.

The fact is the best doctors are not in it for the money. Even so, have you ever met a poor doctor? They all do pretty well. Why can't republicans understand that money isn't everything.
 
Bassman said:
OK, I would venture that is absurd, but what would you consider just compensation for all the sacrifice these people do??
Click to expand...

Well, I took my wife to the doctor last week for a cough that won't go away. The doctor spent less than 3 minutes looking down her throat, nose and ears. It took him two minutes to write a prescription. Total time spent with doctor=5 min. Total physician charge on my bill $210/5 min. They charge what they want because they can.
Fair compensation for a doctor? $100,000 to $1,000,000/ year. The artificially created doctor shortage is what drives prices up. The government should make sure that anyone with the qualifications and desire to be a doctor has the opportunity to do so.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I think that is an extremely poor way to judge a bill.
I mean there should be some certainty that it will work otherwise they shouldn't pass it.

That is insane.
Click to expand...

You can't be serious. Has a bill ever been enacted in history that was certain to succeed? There is absolutely no way to determine if a bill will work or not.
There are no guarantees or certainty in anything the government does. There never have been. Every piece of legislation helps some people and hurts others. It's all about making the best guess.
 
USA-1 said:
You can't be serious. Has a bill ever been enacted in history that was certain to succeed? There is absolutely no way to determine if a bill will work.
There are no guarantees or certainty in anything the government does. There never have been. Every piece of legislation helps some people and hurts others. It's all about making the best guess.
Click to expand...

There are ways to determine if something will be a success or failure based on actuarial and other statistical measures.

The second part is that we should be fixing the debt problems before we create another possible addition to the overall debt.
 
I'd defininantly go see this doc if I had a problem of the nature he treats. The man is FREAKING GENIUS. I mean, we're how many pages into this now? Over a simple poster in his window.

We've had Hazlnut get busted posting bull**** from a "doc rating" site, to even more profound mouthfrothing...

This is like... pure comedic gold.
 
USA-1 said:
Doing it at a loss?:roll: Whoever said that? Another totally ridiculous comment.
Click to expand...
You did, the minute you started making asanine statements about putting profit over patients.

The fact is the best doctors are not in it for the money.
Click to expand...
That isn't even close to a "fact" that is a talking point used by spoiled little UHC supporters to make themselves feel better about screwing over doctors.
Even so, have you ever met a poor doctor?
Click to expand...
The typical general family practicioner makes less than 6 digits a year, not poor, but certainly not rich.
They all do pretty well. Why can't republicans understand that money isn't everything.
Click to expand...
And now you have pretty much completed your circle of ignorance, it is not about money with conservatives or Republicans, it is about liberty and the constitution, a concept lost on the hard side of the left completely.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
There are ways to determine if something will be a success or failure based on actuarial and other statistical measures.

The second part is that we should be fixing the debt problems before we create another possible addition to the overall debt.
Click to expand...

Nope. There really is no way to guarantee success with anything because no one can predict with certainty what the future holds. Even with all the data, it's still a guess.
Actuaries can be horribly wrong and depend on guesswork. The actuaries at AIG proved that.
We should have started fixing the debt problem 9 years ago. Ignoring the healthcare problem was not an option. It's been ignored too long. I do not support the current bill but I understand why they passed it. And I will make the best of it.
 
USA-1 said:
Nope. There really is no way to guarantee success with anything because no one can predict with certainty what the future holds. Even with all the data, it's still a guess.
Actuaries can be horribly wrong and depend on guesswork. The actuaries at AIG proved that.
We should have started fixing the debt problem 9 years ago. Ignoring the healthcare problem was not an option. It's been ignored too long. I do not support the current bill but I understand why they passed it. And I will make the best of it.
Click to expand...

Actuaries can be off but in general they can provide a decent forecast.

From everything I've read so far, this isn't going to work and it's going to cost both government and the individual more than everyone expects.
To see the best example of this we can look at MassCare, how premiums have gone up a lot and the quality of care from it's public option has been hampered greatly by denial of services and it's speed of paying the bills.

The bureaucracy from that is too unwieldy.
Now with Medicaid as the new, limited public option, it will get even more out of control.
 
LaMidRighter said:
You did, the minute you started making asanine statements about putting profit over patients.

That isn't even close to a "fact" that is a talking point used by spoiled little UHC supporters to make themselves feel better about screwing over doctors. The typical general family practicioner makes less than 6 digits a year, not poor, but certainly not rich. And now you have pretty much completed your circle of ignorance, it is not about money with conservatives or Republicans, it is about liberty and the constitution, a concept lost on the hard side of the left completely.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The typical family practitioner makes 150k/year. Many make much more.
Talk about ignorance. You are starting to embarrass yourself. You might want to move on.
 
USA-1 said:
Wrong. The typical family practitioner makes 150k/year. Many make much more.
Talk about ignorance. You are starting to embarrass yourself. You might want to move on.
Click to expand...
Nope, that's bull****. The typical general and family practicioner can make between 150-250k a year but usually averages around 85k, this is a gross before tax average.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Nope, that's bull****. The typical general and family practicioner can make between 150-250k a year but usually averages around 85k, this is a gross before tax average.
Click to expand...

What is it? First you said the typical family practitioner made less than 6 digits.
Now you say the typical family practitioner makes 150 to 250.
Sorry Slick, but the average is around 150k for general practioner.

General doctors aren't the problem anyway. It's the specialists that make millions that drive our costs up..
 
Last edited:
LaMidRighter said:
Nope, that's bull****. The typical general and family practicioner can make between 150-250k a year but usually averages around 85k, this is a gross before tax average.
Click to expand...

You have to be kidding

A RN in Alberta working 32/week with evening and weekend shifts will make around 70-90 k a year.

No RN in Alberta makes more then the doctors (provided he is working full time) here either, yet we have a doctor shortage as well

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

Just added a link that has a list of doctors salaries in the US


The lowest paid was an ambulatory physician with 1-2 years of experience $80 000

The top was a spine specialist at over 1 million
 
Last edited:
Lord Tammerlain said:
You have to be kidding

A RN in Alberta working 32/week with evening and weekend shifts will make around 70-90 k a year.

No RN in Alberta makes more then the doctors (provided he is working full time) here either, yet we have a doctor shortage as well

Physician Salaries - Salary Surveys

Just added a link that has a list of doctors salaries in the US


The lowest paid was an ambulatory physician with 1-2 years of experience $80 000

The top was a spine specialist at over 1 million
Click to expand...
That negates what I said how? You do realize I am speaking of a mean average right?

http://www.careeroverview.com/general-practitioner-salaries.html The low is about 70k, median(defined as 50% or less of the sample size) about 145k and high is a variable. So yes, the entire sample mean would skew to around 85K.
 
Last edited:
LaMidRighter said:
That negates what I said how? You do realize I am speaking of a mean average right?

Family and General Practitioner Salary, Earnings and Wage Information The low is about 70k, median(defined as 50% or less of the sample size) about 145k and high is a variable. So yes, the entire sample mean would skew to around 85K.
Click to expand...

Something is wrong with the list in your link

The high and the median income is the same, something that is not possible,

The median income is $145600 and the high income is $145600

Meaning your calculation would be wrong as well

It appears that that site does not calculate the high income if it is over 145600 and just defaults to that figure


Which means trying to calculate the mean from that site is impossible as it is not providing the information that would be required to do so
 
Last edited:
USA-1 said:
Of course those that have milked as much money from the system as possible are going to retire. They are the reason we needed reform in the first place. Time to open up med schools and let anyone that has the ability and desire to be a doctor, be one. We need new blood anyway. No more rationing of med schools.

You people worry about the doctors too much. They will come out of this just fine. They will still be the richest people in town.
Click to expand...

Lets examine your loaded terms and bias

1) "milked money from the system"

marxist speak for people who worked hard and worked smart

2) worry about doctors too much

No, I worry about freedom and our constitution too much

3) the "richest people in town"

the scummy attorneys who sue doctors make more

you seem to be one of those bitter cubicle bunnies who is mad at those who make more than you are. ITs a strange combination of populist nonsense and socialist nonsense.

But you prove my point

most of the support for the obamanonsense comes from those who want the legislation to Punish people
 
aps said:
I have a law degree, which I received in 1995. Please explain to me how the 10th amendment has been violated, because I don't understand how you can make that conclusion.
Click to expand...

because powers not specifically delegated to Congress by the Constitution are reserved to the people and the several states. Where was health care a power delegated to congress.
 
Bassman said:
I take it you'd have no problem with doctors earning less than the national poverety level?? Pathetic, but then again, that's what I would expect from a Lib like you!!
Click to expand...

liberals are an interesting lot--they decry others working for money but want their hands in the pockets of everyone who actually earns more than they do
 
USA-1 said:
Wrong. The typical family practitioner makes 150k/year. Many make much more.
Talk about ignorance. You are starting to embarrass yourself. You might want to move on.
Click to expand...

not a whole lot of money given what it takes to be a doctor
 
TurtleDude said:
liberals are an interesting lot--they decry others working for money but want their hands in the pockets of everyone who actually earns more than they do
Click to expand...

And conservatives are a hypocritical lot

Especially when rich people use their money for things they want to buy they call them elitist

Buying good food and the conservatives scream elitist

Getting an expensive hair cut, elitist

Buying an expensive foreign car elitist

The dont mind people having money, they just dont want people to use it for enjoyment
 
TurtleDude said:
Lets examine your loaded terms and bias

1) "milked money from the system"

marxist speak for people who worked hard and worked smart

2) worry about doctors too much

No, I worry about freedom and our constitution too much

3) the "richest people in town"

the scummy attorneys who sue doctors make more

you seem to be one of those bitter cubicle bunnies who is mad at those who make more than you are. ITs a strange combination of populist nonsense and socialist nonsense.

But you prove my point

most of the support for the obamanonsense comes from those who want the legislation to Punish people
Click to expand...

Wrong. Doctors make more because they created an artificial shortage. It's not a free market. That's the problem. You worry about freedom? That's a joke. If you cared about freedom you would demand a stop to rationing medical training.

If some doctors want to retire because they might make a little less money then so be it. They probably shouldn't be in the profession anyway. I really don't care if anyone makes more than me. I just don't like paying their way because the playing field isn't level.
The currant healthcare system already punishes. It bankrupts people and destroys lives instead of saving them. It really did need reform and
tort reform and selling insurance across state lines isn't the answer. It's a joke.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom