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Pope failed to defrock U.S. sex abuse priest

Yeah for the crap he did know about. Of course, he's still protected by the seal of confession, which is absolute and sacred even under US law. He can always invoke the seal and claim he was unable to report because of that.
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That only applies if the church only learned of Murphy's crimes through confession, which isn't the case.
 
rathi said:
That only applies if the church only learned of Murphy's crimes through confession, which isn't the case.
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Do you know that to be a fact? Do you know that he didn't confess to Ratzinger before it came about?

He can call on the seal of confession to save his own ass and as long as Murphy doesn't argue, there's nothing that can be done about it.

Plus, I highly doubt anyone is willing to go into the Vatican to take the pope into custody.
 
Do you know that to be a fact? Do you know that he didn't confess to Ratzinger before it came about?
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There is nothing to suggest the men ever came in personal contact. Furthermore, evidence beyond confession would be available, which isn't covered under penitent-priest privilege.


He can call on the seal of confession to save his own ass and as long as Murphy doesn't argue, there's nothing that can be done about it.
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It would easy enough to track the physical movements of both men, I doubt Ratzinger happened to be in Wisconsin during the time.

Plus, I highly doubt anyone is willing to go into the Vatican to take the pope into custody.
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I agree that the pope is untouchable, but that has little bearing on his guilt or innocence. He is hardly the most responsible clergyman anyways, those lower on the totem pole who had direct access to murphy should be the first to face trial.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
NYT: Pope failed to defrock sex abuse priest - The New York Times- msnbc.com



Can Ratzinger save himself, or do you think that he should resign?
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I am ALLMOST ashamed to say that I was brought up as Chatholic and I am completely disgusted with the way the Church has handled the expose, the failures to destroy the bad priests, and the coverup that has obviously taken place for centuries. If Pope Arnold had any oopportunity to defrock, sock, or choke that pervert priest with his smock and failed he should resign.

So much for the theory of the infalliability of el Popo in matters of the church. Well maybe it was in matters of faith.

It is time that the leaders of the Catholic Church grow some balls and kick out the pervert priests. Also it is time that the Roman CATHOLIC Church does what it's Eastern and Byzantine Catholic sibling churches do in Europe - allow priests to be married. In that way it will reduce tha homosexual pervert priests who must be 95 % of all the pervert priests in the Church. My God even the Orthodox are smart enough to let their priests marry.
 
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rathi said:
It would easy enough to track the physical movements of both men, I doubt Ratzinger happened to be in Wisconsin during the time.
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They don't have to be in the same place. Confession can occur over the phone.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
But if he had knowledge and covered it up?
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You know it's sort of too bad that the time honored burning at the stake went out of fashion sic... think about it we could give a whole new meaning to the term "flaming fags"..... just saying that's all ... lol

sorry I do not normally make fun of homosexuals but I had this image of the Swiss guards throwing "convicted" pervert priests into a hot big fire and those priests would be dressed in their prized frilley frocks, smocks, and over the top vestments that they love to wear and then the hot flames igniting them and puff like the magic dragon burst into flames and the connvicted priests burn as if they would in the fires hell as they take their last breathes and die a horrible miserable death and remember all of the children that they molested !!!!!
 
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They don't have to be in the same place. Confession can occur over the phone.
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Even today the French bishops say it doesn't fly. In 1974, the practice was unheard of, and it certainly would not have been accepted as real confession.
 
You know it's sort of too bad that the time honored burning at the stake went out of fashion sic... think about it we could give a whole new meaning to the term "flaming fags"..... just saying that's all ... lol
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Cold application of the law is far superior to emotional vigilantism.
 
The problem in this situation is not a pope or a few priests or a few cardinals. It is one in which a bureaucracy holds itself above the law. If it were up to me the Vatican would be a museum by now due to all the arrests. Name a single organization on this planet which can be plagued by the same world wide scandal and survive? No, better yet, name me a single organization which can be plagued by the same scandal and not have a single governmental inquiry into the matters? No. This isn't a problem or religion but of how a bureaucracy of mostly men uses its position of power to harm children and then hide it.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
1 priest, 200 victims. AMAZING. How can he look himself in the mirror and not want to shoot himself in the head?
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GAWD!

What a sick bastard.

I have no doubt he's sold himself on the idea that the ends justified the means. It's amazing how many lies some will people believe......especially the lies they tell

to themselves.


:(
 
Hatuey said:
The problem in this situation is not a pope or a few priests or a few cardinals. It is one in which a bureaucracy holds itself above the law. If it were up to me the Vatican would be a museum by now due to all the arrests. Name a single organization on this planet which can be plagued by the same world wide scandal and survive? No, better yet, name me a single organization which can be plagued by the same scandal and not have a single governmental inquiry into the matters? No. This isn't a problem or religion but of how a bureaucracy of mostly men uses its position of power to harm children and then hide it.
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I agree with you Hatuey. It's not about the religion at all. It's about power and control.

These crimes were hidden to protect the church....which makes it even more bitter but yeah, it's all about power and control.
 
Hatuey said:
The problem in this situation is not a pope or a few priests or a few cardinals. It is one in which a bureaucracy holds itself above the law. If it were up to me the Vatican would be a museum by now due to all the arrests. Name a single organization on this planet which can be plagued by the same world wide scandal and survive? No, better yet, name me a single organization which can be plagued by the same scandal and not have a single governmental inquiry into the matters? No. This isn't a problem or religion but of how a bureaucracy of mostly men uses its position of power to harm children and then hide it.
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The facts s that the perverted acts were done by individuals and therefore it is the individual who needs to be punished legally. Now the organization can be culpable if it can be proven that the organization aided abbetted and allowed and or encouraged those pervert priests to perform their horrific acts. Yes the organization is culpable from the moral perspective that is clear and sad.

As i noted earlier as a Catholic I am indeed sickened as I know other thinking Catholics are as to what the priests did and the bishops and other big hat wearers ignored the crimes.
 
rathi said:
Cold application of the law is far superior to emotional vigilantism.
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I know that from a intellectual perspective but I feel tainted just being a Catholic and to once have been a church going CATHOLIC. I went to Catholic scjhools and was an alter boy and got married in a Catholic Church
so I do want the filth to be burned out of the Church at least symbolically. Of course we can not turn the clock back and really punish the filth that has infected the Church but we can dream now can't we ????
 
jallman said:
That's interesting. I still can't recall a single pope who actually resigned beyond that one.

And I would prefer he resign by poison if he does.
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I love that you are just as disgusted by this as I am.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Hopefully something painful.
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He has been humiliated by this news, and I relish this. Reputation and credibility are two of the most important characteristics the Pope have. He has lost both of them.

My mother is a die-hard Catholic. I will be seeing her this coming weekend and will ask her what she thinks about this.
 
F107HyperSabr said:
The facts s that the perverted acts were done by individuals and therefore it is the individual who needs to be punished legally. Now the organization can be culpable if it can be proven that the organization aided abbetted and allowed and or encouraged those pervert priests to perform their horrific acts. Yes the organization is culpable from the moral perspective that is clear and sad.

As i noted earlier as a Catholic I am indeed sickened as I know other thinking Catholics are as to what the priests did and the bishops and other big hat wearers ignored the crimes.
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Moving priests around from church to church? Not acknowledging the abuses for decades sometimes? High ranking members of the Catholic church urging to keep the matters internal? How much more proof do you need that the problem is not a few individuals but the entire bureaucracy?
 
Hatuey said:
Moving priests around from church to church? Not acknowledging the abuses for decades sometimes? High ranking members of the Catholic church urging to keep the matters internal? How much more proof do you need that the problem is not a few individuals but the entire bureaucracy?
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Yes I agree that the Big Hats covered up the crime/sin of the filth buckets yet is that enough to get the the Big Hats arrested by governments ? I wish there was but I am not convinced that there is.
 
If the pope knew about the sexual abuse, and ordered it to be covered up he should be put on trail for aiding and abetting the past and future sexual abuse's of the priests.
 
aps said:
He has been humiliated by this news, and I relish this. Reputation and credibility are two of the most important characteristics the Pope have. He has lost both of them.

My mother is a die-hard Catholic. I will be seeing her this coming weekend and will ask her what she thinks about this.
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My Mom who is also a die hard CATHO did admitt a few years ago that everyone knew that there "funny stuff going on" by the priests but she said that they though it was that priests were " you know, with women" and "not kids". So her generatiion and yhose before her and way back knew that there was "funny stuff going on" yet no one did anything !!! I was forced to go to Church and listen to a potential priesto who maybe was a closset pervert - who knows !!!! I asked why didn't they do someyhing? She said that "it just was not questioned ".

So are our parents at fault also ? Our Grandparents ?? Every adult let this happen !!! What di our generation do ? We drifteed away from that mess !!!
 
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aps said:
He has been humiliated by this news, and I relish this. Reputation and credibility are two of the most important characteristics the Pope have. He has lost both of them.

My mother is a die-hard Catholic. I will be seeing her this coming weekend and will ask her what she thinks about this.
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I feel so bad for the Catholics. Their "representative" (I guess that's the best way to put it) has been discovered to be a mangy dog.

I don't know a lot about Catholicism but I think the Pope is viewed almost like a Saint walking on earth.

I'm not Catholic so I'm not sure, but I always thought of it that way.

This has got to be painful for the ones who are doing the praying, living and dying...all in step with their faith.

:(
 
missypea said:
I feel so bad for the Catholics. Their "representative" (I guess that's the best way to put it) has been discovered to be a mangy dog.

I don't know a lot about Catholicism but I think the Pope is viewed almost like a Saint walking on earth.

I'm not Catholic so I'm not sure, but I always thought of it that way.

This has got to be painful for the ones who are doing the praying, living and dying...all in step with their faith.

:(
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EL Chief big hat is actually the leader the head honcho of the church not just a representative since there is no place for el Popo to go and represent.

As far a a "saint walking on terra firma" well let me put it this way- some Cathos do but remember that there were and are people who think that Reagan was a saint or god also !!!

I rest my case !!!!!
 
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F107HyperSabr said:
EL Chief big hat is actually the leader the head honcho of the church not just a representative since there is no place for el Popo to go and represent.

As far a a "saint walking on terra firma" well let me put it this way- some Cathos do but remember that there were and are people who think that Reagan was a saint or god also !!!

I rest my case !!!!!
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Aha.....Leader it is.

I do feel bad for the catholic people though.

Betrayal always hurts.
 
missypea said:
I feel so bad for the Catholics. Their "representative" (I guess that's the best way to put it) has been discovered to be a mangy dog.

I don't know a lot about Catholicism but I think the Pope is viewed almost like a Saint walking on earth.

I'm not Catholic so I'm not sure, but I always thought of it that way.

This has got to be painful for the ones who are doing the praying, living and dying...all in step with their faith.

:(
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It is very painful to watch, missy. Thank you for acknowledging that as respectfully as you did.
 
jallman said:
It is very painful to watch, missy. Thank you for acknowledging that as respectfully as you did.
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I hadn't thought of this, jallman, and apologize for being unempathetic. I'm sorry. :3oops:
 
So when will they start prosecuting these people?
 
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