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Health Care Bill has passed

lizzie said:
Work in the field for awhile, and then come back and tell me wow. You think I'm kidding?
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Uh, what field is that? Mental health?
 
lizzie said:
I could go and find you several within a week or two.
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Oh it will take a week or two? I guess this large segment you speak of isn't so large.

Well I'm off to Wal Mart to pick up my 'scripts.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
And yet you failed to address my question.
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Incorrect, I did address it.


On the contrary, you are the one crying about being forced to purchase insurance.
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Yeah, I have to pay a fine for living. Imagine being upset about that. :roll:

:rofl Everything is scare:2wave:
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WTF?


Blanket statements about "government care" only apply to the US now? Fascinating.
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Is the US identical to other countries or not?

That is what you have been arguing for....
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No, it's not.

You could have fooled me. All you have presented me with are normative rants without any positive support. You are going to have to do much better.
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Get your head out of the sand or out of your ass, whichever it is, and maybe you'll be able to understand the evidence that's been presented repeatedly.

If your only argument is "you're wrong, I'm right" then we're pretty much done here.
 
MC.no.spin said:
I'd like to get that figured clarified - I was just listening to Rush and he said the figure is 2% of your income or $2,000 a year, which ever is greater. That is all I know about it.
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No, from what I see, if an employer doesn't cover his employees, he pays a $2000.00 per year per employee fine minus some deductions.

The individual fine is $695.00 per year.

That's my impression now. I am still trying to sort through it because, as I said, the language is very thick and its hard to understand. Some of it seems to even double back and contradict itself.

It's gonna take me a couple of days sorting through it before I can safely say I have a firm understanding of what's in it.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
It paves the way for perfect inelasticty.
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I don't see it.



And the private market will be far better off with such people off of their risk pool.
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Only if the risk can be absorbed, currently it cannot.



We have a winner. The second biggest determinant in health care inflation. Are you familiar with medical tourism?
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Absolutely, it's not a problem when it's paid for, huge problem when indigents cross the boarders.



Agreed! What are your views on shifting the remaining high risk individuals to the government?
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It's tricky. In another thread C.C. and I were talking about a true public option. It would have to be completely voluntary, with an opt out, the program would have to be self funded by members, and it would have to follow all rules other insurers do. I think under a plan like that for basic services high risk individuals could easily be covered.
 
LaMidRighter said:
In another thread C.C. and I were talking about a true public option. It would have to be completely voluntary, with an opt out, the program would have to be self funded by members, and it would have to follow all rules other insurers do. I think under a plan like that for basic services high risk individuals could easily be covered.
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Yup, I've stated many times that I wouldn't have the slightest issue with the government creating a TRUE public option. One that is paid for solely by those who elect to use it.
 
satandog said:
Looks like the market is doing OK at this point. Dow up about 45 at 2pm. Maybe they have not heard yet.
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LOL! It's been up and down all day and irratic, besides, I already said it could go up until the major portions of this bill kick in, but that if it's a bubble it will burst hard.
Reading is fundamental.
 
jallman said:
No, from what I see, if an employer doesn't cover his employees, he pays a $2000.00 per year per employee fine minus some deductions.

The individual fine is $695.00 per year.

That's my impression now. I am still trying to sort through it because, as I said, the language is very thick and its hard to understand. Some of it seems to even double back and contradict itself.

It's gonna take me a couple of days sorting through it before I can safely say I have a firm understanding of what's in it.
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It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
 
chosendudenyc said:
Under the Bush Administration, those 8 straight years, our Constitution was void and abused to push conservative agenda's and policies. Few said anything.


How dare you state that anything unproven, unlike the Bush Administration succession of voiding our Constitution for 8 straight years, from the Obama Administration needs to be criticized and seen unlawful?
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Lots of hyperbolic partisan hackery in your post, with zero substance.
 
Gill said:
It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
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That was nice of them. I am eligible for this fine. :mad:
 
Gill said:
It's my understanding that the fine is either $695. or 2.5% of taxable income, whichever is greater.
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I came across Denninger's take. He can be a bit hyper-reactive, but he usually seems to hit the major points fairly accurately:

And yes, I've read the Health Bill. Both the 2,000+ page original and The House changes as voted upon.
Here's the bottom line:
If you refuse to buy health insurance, you will be fined on a sliding scale that amounts to 2% of your AGI. So if you make $100,000 a year, you could be fined $2,000 for "refusing" to buy insurance.

You cannot buy a catastrophic policy any more. The "cheapest" acceptable policy will cost somewhere around $15,000 for a single person, and over $20,000 for a family. This is, for most people, more than five times the maximum possible fine - each and every year. The law makes it effectively impossible to maintain an existing catastrophic policy as they "renew" every year, and should any change be made you are then forced to buy something "acceptable" in the law (or pay the fine.)

When the "pre-existing condition" bar comes down you cannot be charged more or denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

I fully expect 20-50% premium increases immediately, and for the next three years sequentially, in all existing policies. This is precisely what the banks did in front of the CARD act becoming effective, and it will happen here as well. That is the cause of the short-term rocket shot in the health-related stocks this morning.

In addition the capital gains tax changes will do severe damage to capital formation immediately, and these changes will become especially severe starting in 2014. The market will anticipate these changes and react accordingly, although you certainly wouldn't know it today.
Ok, this one's easy.
When the fines and pre-existing coverage "stop-out" go into effect (now for kids, in a couple of years for the rest) drop all coverage for those affected.
Why?
Because:
The fine is 1/5th or less the cost of the "insurance."

Health Care: Arbitrage Obama And The Dems - The Market Ticker
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I've read through the bill a little bit, and while I don't know it as thoroughly or in-depth as some people here do, there are certainly things I like and that I don't like. For instance, I like the fact that insurance companies can't deny people for pre-existing conditions. I think it's downright criminal the way that they try to deny people coverage now. I realize it's a business, but people need the help that insurance provides and when it is being worked with the credo of "save money and we don't care who we screw over to do so", I think things need to change.

One thing I definitely do take issue with, is the fact that people are going to be penalized for not having insurance. People should have the right to do what they want as far as their health care is concerned. I think a lot of the language right now in the health care bill is pretty extreme and people are freaking out because it's such a dramatic difference from what we have now. Change can be terrifying, and I'm hoping this doesn't end up biting us in the ass, which very easily could happen.

Considering that this is a totally new approach at health care, I think much of it will be fairly hit or miss and hope that as time goes on things will be improved so that it can be a compromise for everyone.
 
People should do what they want as long as they don't want others to care for them. However, many are being cared for by us because they didn't act responsibly and get insurance. This irresponsibility has led us to where we are now.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I've read through the bill a little bit, and while I don't know it as thoroughly or in-depth as some people here do, there are certainly things I like and that I don't like. For instance, I like the fact that insurance companies can't deny people for pre-existing conditions. I think it's downright criminal the way that they try to deny people coverage now. I realize it's a business, but people need the help that insurance provides and when it is being worked with the credo of "save money and we don't care who we screw over to do so", I think things need to change.

One thing I definitely do take issue with, is the fact that people are going to be penalized for not having insurance. People should have the right to do what they want as far as their health care is concerned. I think a lot of the language right now in the health care bill is pretty extreme and people are freaking out because it's such a dramatic difference from what we have now. Change can be terrifying, and I'm hoping this doesn't end up biting us in the ass, which very easily could happen.

Considering that this is a totally new approach at health care, I think much of it will be fairly hit or miss and hope that as time goes on things will be improved so that it can be a compromise for everyone.
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I agree with you, however, by not allowing insurance companies to discriminate you almost have to mandate coverage. What would be stopping people from waiting to get insurance until they get sick without a mandate?
 
In order to make this bill deficit reducing, many of the benefits will not begin for 4 years.

However,

"Some of the benefits that will be introduced within the first year:

-- Small business tax credits. From 2010 through 2013, qualifying small companies could get a tax credit of up to 35 percent of the company's contribution to employee's health coverage. Beginning in 2014, when the exchanges start up, small businesses could qualify for up to 50 percent of the cost.

-- Coverage for those with pre-existing conditions. Soon after enactment, people with pre-existing conditions who haven't had coverage for at least six months could obtain coverage through a "high-risk pool" with subsidized premiums. This would be a temporary solution until the exchanges begin in 2014.

-- Assistance for early retirees. Starting in 2010, a temporary reinsurance program will help cut the cost of health coverage for retirees not old enough to be eligible for Medicare.

-- Dependent coverage to age 26. Shortly after enactment, all insurers will have to accept dependent coverage for children up to age 26.

-- No more rescissions. Existing plans would no longer be able to terminate beneficiaries when they get sick.

-- Enhanced preventive care. Soon after enactment, qualified health plans would have to provide certain preventive services without cost-sharing. Starting in 2011, patient cost-sharing for preventive services under Medicare and Medicaid will be eliminated."
PolitiFact | Tiahrt: Health care bill will collect 10 years of taxes for six years of services
 
drz-400 said:
I agree with you, however, by not allowing insurance companies to discriminate you almost have to mandate coverage. What would be stopping people from waiting to get insurance until they get sick without a mandate?
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That's true, and I don't think they should have just gone from one extreme to another. However, hopefully down the road they will see find some kind of workable middle ground to reach.
 
drz-400 said:
I agree with you, however, by not allowing insurance companies to discriminate you almost have to mandate coverage. What would be stopping people from waiting to get insurance until they get sick without a mandate?
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True. ........
 
Boo Radley said:
However, many are being cared for by us because they didn't act responsibly and get insurance. This irresponsibility has led us to where we are now.
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The irresponsibility of our country for the past 50 years has led us to this point.
 
For children up to 26...

While you're suckling on big Governments tit may as well stay attached to Mom and Dad's as well it seems. Wonder if SCHIPS will be extended to those poor, unfortunante children that are on the cusp of 30

:roll:
 
Has anyone heard of Rush Limbaugh's travel plans now?

His bag appears to be packed ~

sm-suitcase581762.jpg


I'm even willing to give him a drive to the airport!
 
Zyphlin said:
For children up to 26...

While you're suckling on big Governments tit may as well stay attached to Mom and Dad's as well it seems. Wonder if SCHIPS will be extended to those poor, unfortunante children that are on the cusp of 30

:roll:
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They are catering to the slacker generation..which I think is pretty damned ridiculous.
 
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