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Arizona sheriff launches immigration sweep

Lerxst said:
Rounding up illegal aliens in street sweeps is not the answer. It's like chasing down drug users. You have to treat the source of the problem. Establishing and enforcing tough employment laws. Dry up the reason they come here. Starting fining companies that violate the rules. Implement stronger identification verification methods using biometrics.

I do not believe this man is a good example of a Sheriff. "Tough on crime" is a misleading thing. But I guess people enjoy watching their tax dollars go poof due to litigation.
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Litigation is a horrible reason to ignore the law.Should we be leniant on child molesters or not arrest them at all if NAMBLA and NAMGLA started suing left and right every time a child molester was locked up?
 
Lerxst said:
.....Rounding up illegal aliens in street sweeps is not the answer.......
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And you have a better answer when the primary enforcers of the immigration laws sit on their duffs and do nothing for fear of loosing future votes?
 
Lerxst said:
Rounding up illegal aliens in street sweeps is not the answer. It's like chasing down drug users. You have to treat the source of the problem. Establishing and enforcing tough employment laws. Dry up the reason they come here. Starting fining companies that violate the rules. Implement stronger identification verification methods using biometrics.

I do not believe this man is a good example of a Sheriff. "Tough on crime" is a misleading thing. But I guess people enjoy watching their tax dollars go poof due to litigation.
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That's the thing. I work in the field. There is probably no one on this board who is tougher on crime than I am, in actuality. I'm a strong proponent of EFFECTIVE suppression efforts.

The key word here is "effective." What Sheriff Joe is doing is a poor use of officer man hours, tax dollars and resources. Longterm, sweeps have very little impact on overall crime. It's all show, and no substance.

I do love how those of us who actually know something about the field, when we point this out, are automatically called "liberals." When it comes to crime, I'm far from liberal. I just feel like local agencies are responsible to use tax dollars wisely and well, and that means NOT engaging in kneejerk reactions that are unlikely to create sustainable longterm change to the level of crime in a community.
 
Boomyal said:
And you have a better answer when the primary enforcers of the immigration laws sit on their duffs and do nothing for fear of loosing future votes?
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Yes. Focus on the illegal aliens who are involved in criminal activities. Work to build solid cases against perpetrators who commit serious crimes so that they are removed from the street for a lengthy period of time. Build community support for reporting crime and trust between the department and the community. Hold the officers to high standards, and require them to be ethically above reproach. Uphold the constitution. Use crime data to understand local problems and focus innovative solutions on those targeted issues. Focus resources where they are most needed, based upon data, not upon the issue of the day. Cultivate gang sources and build cases against the leaders of the gang, removing them from the ability to create mayhem on the streets, and disrupting the criminal enterprises of the gang. Create a vertical prosecution unit within the local prosecutors office to build a closer connection between investigation & prosecution, thus creating greater success in trying cases against criminals. Work smarter, not harder.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Yes. Focus on the illegal aliens who are involved in criminal activities. Work to build solid cases against perpetrators who commit serious crimes so that they are removed from the street for a lengthy period of time. Build community support for reporting crime and trust between the department and the community. Hold the officers to high standards, and require them to be ethically above reproach. Uphold the constitution. Use crime data to understand local problems and focus innovative solutions on those targeted issues. Focus resources where they are most needed, based upon data, not upon the issue of the day. Cultivate gang sources and build cases against the leaders of the gang, removing them from the ability to create mayhem on the streets, and disrupting the criminal enterprises of the gang. Create a vertical prosecution unit within the local prosecutors office to build a closer connection between investigation & prosecution, thus creating greater success in trying cases against criminals. Work smarter, not harder.
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They should be able to do ALL of that & run the sweeps as well.....;)
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Clearly, they do not have the manpower for that. And, there is a huge downside to sweeps from a crime prevention perspective.
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I disagree, these sweeps are not a constant, ongoing thing......;)
It's not like the streets are devoid of cops after a sweep is over.....
The 'beat goes on', so to speak......:mrgreen:
Sheriff Joe County is full of scum, I think that any & all methods of reigning in said scum should be used.....;)
 
Partisan said:
I disagree, these sweeps are not a constant, ongoing thing......;)
It's not like the streets are devoid of cops after a sweep is over.....
The 'beat goes on', so to speak......:mrgreen:
Sheriff Joe County is full of scum, I think that any & all methods of reigning in said scum should be used.....;)
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I think I'd prefer to see my resources used ON THE STREET versus used to fight controversial lawsuits. But hey, I'm a conservative like that.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I think I'd prefer to see my resources used ON THE STREET versus used to fight controversial lawsuits. But hey, I'm a conservative like that.
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Why should a sweep cause a controversial lawsuit?.......:confused:
At least it shouldn't.....
If you are referring to lawsuits created because of illegals getting trapped in the 'dragnet', it is the cost of doing business properly.....
He is picking up the GUBMINT slack as far as I am concerned....
If ACLU lawyers want to quibble about who should be upholding the law of the land, so be it.....
But they are the ones guilty of the frivolous, controversial lawsuits, IMO.....;)
 
Partisan said:
Why should a sweep cause a controversial lawsuit?.......:confused:
At least it shouldn't.....
If you are referring to lawsuits created because of illegals getting trapped in the 'dragnet', it is the cost of doing business properly.....
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Because it's not just illegals who get caught up in these sweeps. American citizens who are latino are misidentified and mistreated in these roundups, and they are misidentified on the basis of skin color.

We have a presumption of innocence in this country. Rounding up people on the basis of their physical appearance and expecting them to prove their citizenship violates a fundamental premise of how our country functions.

Furthermore, it creates huge mistrust and bad will towards law enforcement. I've seen it happen, it creates a very dangerous situation for officers.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Because it's not just illegals who get caught up in these sweeps. American citizens who are latino are misidentified and mistreated in these roundups, and they are misidentified on the basis of skin color.

We have a presumption of innocence in this country. Rounding up people on the basis of their physical appearance and expecting them to prove their citizenship violates a fundamental premise of how our country functions.

Furthermore, it creates huge mistrust and bad will towards law enforcement. I've seen it happen, it creates a very dangerous situation for officers.
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Let's not let petty little facts like that get in the way of a Partisan and Liberal Co. "Go Joe" circle jerk.
 
jallman said:
Let's not let petty little facts like that get in the way of a Partisan and Liberal Co. "Go Joe" circle jerk.
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I love the assumption that I hate law enforcement and am a communist.

The fact is that creating ill will towards officers in the community exponentially increases the likelihood that officers will be shot or killed while performing their duties. I have a lot of very close friends who are cops. I would like to see them do their jobs well and go home safe & sound at night.

Sheriff Joe has taken a short-sighted politically-motivated approach that endangers his officers, and I abhor people who are willing to let OTHER PEOPLE take the risks for their political agenda.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I love the assumption that I hate law enforcement and am a communist.

The fact is that creating ill will towards officers in the community exponentially increases the likelihood that officers will be shot or killed while performing their duties. I have a lot of very close friends who are cops. I would like to see them do their jobs well and go home safe & sound at night.

Sheriff Joe has taken a short-sighted politically-motivated approach that endangers his officers, and I abhor people who are willing to let OTHER PEOPLE take the risks for their political agenda.
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Like I said, their approach is one of the more unsavory aspects of liberalism in action. Stalin would be proud of Sheriff Joe and his supporters here on this forum.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Because it's not just illegals who get caught up in these sweeps. American citizens who are latino are misidentified and mistreated in these roundups, and they are misidentified on the basis of skin color.

We have a presumption of innocence in this country. Rounding up people on the basis of their physical appearance and expecting them to prove their citizenship violates a fundamental premise of how our country functions.

Furthermore, it creates huge mistrust and bad will towards law enforcement. I've seen it happen, it creates a very dangerous situation for officers.
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Please, how do you get misidentified if you have your valid ID with you?....:confused:
You also know that you can be held up to 72 hours without being charged, while police conduct an investigation.....
Criminals always mistrust the police anyway.....
Police are always in a dangerous situation, so I don't see the validity in that arguement, other than those creating a 'dangerous situation' need a beatdown & arrest........;)
For someone in the game, you seem awfully soft on perps....;)
 
jallman said:
Like I said, their approach is one of the more unsavory aspects of liberalism in action. Stalin would be proud of Sheriff Joe and his supporters here on this forum.
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How do you figure Sheriff Joe as a liberal?....:confused:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I love the assumption that I hate law enforcement and am a communist.

The fact is that creating ill will towards officers in the community exponentially increases the likelihood that officers will be shot or killed while performing their duties. I have a lot of very close friends who are cops. I would like to see them do their jobs well and go home safe & sound at night.

Sheriff Joe has taken a short-sighted politically-motivated approach that endangers his officers, and I abhor people who are willing to let OTHER PEOPLE take the risks for their political agenda.
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You are talking about politicians in general......;)
 
Partisan said:
Please, how do you get misidentified if you have your valid ID with you?....:confused:
You also know that you can be held up to 72 hours without being charged, while police conduct an investigation.....
Criminals always mistrust the police anyway
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How do you guess if someone is not a citizen in order to detain them to ask for ID? You believe that people should have to PROVE their residency, versus there being a reasonable suspicion of guilt?
 
Partisan said:
How do you figure Sheriff Joe as a liberal?....:confused:
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Extreme wastefulness of resources, total disregard for the constitution, suppressing fair investigation, intimidation tactics, ineffective policies...yeah that all sounds pretty much like hallmarks of liberal politics. No wonder you support him so avidly.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
How do you guess if someone is not a citizen in order to detain them to ask for ID? You believe that people should have to PROVE their residency, versus there being a reasonable suspicion of guilt?
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Quit it, you have to know that you must show valid ID to law enforcement upon request under any circumstances, if requested.....;)
 
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