• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Arizona sheriff launches immigration sweep

The Giant Noodle said:
the HUGE majority of LEGAL mexicans are wonderful people!
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a legal mexican be a citizen of Mexico? I think the phrase you're looking for here is "legal Americans." There are large populations of Latinos in the southwest, including Arizona, who have been in those states since before those states belonged to the U.S., and have been U.S. citizens since the battle/treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Those people ARE Americans, and should not be subject to illegal search and seizure by the government because they PHYSICALLY RESEMBLE non-U.S. citizens from Mexico and Central America.

Furthermore, I'm quite certain that the people in "LITTLE MEXICO," as you refer to them, and many of their ancestors, were living in those parts of the U.S. long before you arrived, as U.S. Citizens, and will be there long after you've departed.

When residents of the southwest are able to tell me how they distinguish, accurately, based upon physical appearance, between a Chicano and a Mexican, you let me know. I don't believe it is possible. Until you've figured it out, detaining people and expecting them to prove their citizenship on the street, for no other reason than their physical appearance, IS ILLEGAL. It is a violation of the 4th amendment.

I don't understand people who are willing to throw out the constitution and bill of rights in order to combat illegal immigration. This is a false dichotomy. It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to be ANTI-illegal immigration and PRO-constitutional rights. It's entirely possible to be very pro-law enforcement and be anti-Sheriff Joe, because Sheriff Joe does not represent conservative values such as being fiscally prudent with the taxpayers' money and upholding constitutional values.

Can you explain your willingness to throw out the 4th amendment to me, and then explain how undermining the constitution and bill of rights = conservative?
 
Last edited:
The Giant Noodle said:
Firstly do you REALLY understand what ILLEGAL means?
Look dude..... YOU like the Mexicans soooooooooooooo much.... MOVE TO MEXICO

But let me explain something. Ya see.... THIS is NOT Mexico.
It seems you DO have a RACIAL problem...... not a problem understanding the law. You dont care about the law. You just dont like the white race. Which...... makes you a racist.
Click to expand...

What I find extremely humorous, and what proves that I'm not the one in this conversation that has a "RACIAL problem", is that a large proportion of the Illegal aliens I know personally are not Mexican. They are WHITE!!! :shock::shock: :lol:

The reason why your assumption that my comments must refer to Mexicans so absurdly hilarious is because Chicago is home to more non-Mexican illegal than most other places in the US.

My theory is that if someone is from "Northern Illinois" and they aren't aware of the fact that we have a very large white illegal immigrant population, they must either be from some far suburb instead of the city or they are a flat-out racist who doesn't count our Irish, Italian, and Polish illegal immigrants and former illegal immigrants.
 
Partisan said:
Plenty of anchor babies are testimony to that......;)
That's why the jails are filling up at a record pace.....
Click to expand...

The only difference between an "anchor baby" and any other natural born American citizen is that the anchor babies parents are always someone who put effort into becoming an American, and thus earned it more.

As I said, most Americans are simply the parts that failed to dribble down mommy's leg or pool up in her belly button.

I don't think most of them deserve **** as far as special rights go. They didn't earn it, their parents didn't earn it.


there are only two types of people in this world who have earned the right to be "proud" of being American: Those who served in the military, and those who immigrated here (regardless of whether it was legally or illegally).

Just being born is no achievement.
 
I like Injuns, can I stay in America, or is that all negated by all the non-American types I also like (including my white ass European of some kind self)?
 
Last edited:
Catz Part Deux said:
Wouldn't a legal mexican be a citizen of Mexico? I think the phrase you're looking for here is "legal Americans." There are large populations of Latinos in the southwest, including Arizona, who have been in those states since before those states belonged to the U.S., and have been U.S. citizens since the battle/treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Those people ARE Americans, and should not be subject to illegal search and seizure by the government because they PHYSICALLY RESEMBLE non-U.S. citizens from Mexico and Central America.

Furthermore, I'm quite certain that the people in "LITTLE MEXICO," as you refer to them, and many of their ancestors, were living in those parts of the U.S. long before you arrived, as U.S. Citizens, and will be there long after you've departed.

When residents of the southwest are able to tell me how they distinguish, accurately, based upon physical appearance, between a Chicano and a Mexican, you let me know. I don't believe it is possible. Until you've figured it out, detaining people and expecting them to prove their citizenship on the street, for no other reason than their physical appearance, IS ILLEGAL. It is a violation of the 4th amendment.

I don't understand people who are willing to throw out the constitution and bill of rights in order to combat illegal immigration. This is a false dichotomy. It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to be ANTI-illegal immigration and PRO-constitutional rights. It's entirely possible to be very pro-law enforcement and be anti-Sheriff Joe, because Sheriff Joe does not represent conservative values such as being fiscally prudent with the taxpayers' money and upholding constitutional values.
Can you explain your willingness to throw out the 4th amendment to me, and then explain how undermining the constitution and bill of rights = conservative?
Click to expand...

His continued re-election negates your arguement....
He is obviously doing what the MAJORITY of his electorate wants....

In an ideal world, the sheriff should be neither Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative.......;)
He should uphold the law of the land.....;)
The law of the land says that you have no right to enter the country illegally......
You are correct, Mexicans & Chicanos look alike, so I would hope he instructs
his officers to ask the whites & blacks for ID as well....... ;)
Simple concept: Show a valid ID, & get the ticket for your infraction & move on......;)
No valid ID?.....
Hmmm......
This might bear further investigation, no matter what color you are.....:roll:
 
Partisan said:
His continued re-election negates your arguement....
He is obviously doing what the MAJORITY of his electorate wants....
Click to expand...

There is a reason why we aren't a straight democracy, and are instead a republic/representative democracy. Can you think why that might be? What is the difference between a republic and a democracy?
 
Tucker Case said:
What I find extremely humorous, and what proves that I'm not the one in this conversation that has a "RACIAL problem", is that a large proportion of the Illegal aliens I know personally are not Mexican. They are WHITE!!! :shock::shock: :lol:

The reason why your assumption that my comments must refer to Mexicans so absurdly hilarious is because Chicago is home to more non-Mexican illegal than most other places in the US.

My theory is that if someone is from "Northern Illinois" and they aren't aware of the fact that we have a very large white illegal immigrant population, they must either be from some far suburb instead of the city or they are a flat-out racist who doesn't count our Irish, Italian, and Polish illegal immigrants and former illegal immigrants.
Click to expand...

This thread is about Sheriff Joe & His treatment of illegals in Maricopa Co., Arizona, please try to stay on topic....;)
That said, anyone contacted by a LEO has to produce valid ID or face further scrutiny....
If upon further investigation, (set in motion by failure to posess a valid ID), said suspect is found to be illegal, off to the stripey hole & pink underwear while they await deportation.....
The long arm of justice has prevailed......;)
 
Partisan said:
This thread is about Sheriff Joe & His treatment of illegals in Maricopa Co., Arizona, please try to stay on topic....;)
Click to expand...

Moderator's Warning:
You are not a moderator and, thus, telling people to stay on topic is an act of trolling. Refrain from doing this in the future. If you have issue with a person's posts, report the post. This includes posts made by moderators. Do not try and play moderator.
 
Tucker Case said:
The only difference between an "anchor baby" and any other natural born American citizen is that the anchor babies parents are always someone who put effort into becoming an American, and thus earned it more.

How by breaking the law?........:roll:
As I said, most Americans are simply the parts that failed to dribble down mommy's leg or pool up in her belly button.
Click to expand...

All Americans are that, or they wouldn't be born....

I don't think most of them deserve **** as far as special rights go. They didn't earn it, their parents didn't earn it.
Click to expand...

I agree, the illegals & their anchor babies steal it, not earn it.....

there are only two types of people in this world who have earned the right to be "proud" of being American: Those who served in the military, and those who immigrated here (regardless of whether it was legally or illegally).
Click to expand...

So the last three presidents have no right to be 'proud' Americans, this is your position?..........:doh

Just being born is no achievement.
Click to expand...

Sure it is, look how many don't make it........;)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Partisan said:
How by breaking the law?........:roll:
Click to expand...

By playing a role in the fact that they are American


All Americans are that, or they wouldn't be born....
Click to expand...

All humans are that, but some Americans earned the right to be an American. Most did not, however.



I agree, the illegals & their anchor babies steal it, not earn it.....
Click to expand...

It is not somehting that is stolen. And Anchor babies are no different form non-anchor babies. Only idiots make a distinction considering nobody who was simply born here has earned the right to be an American.

The only way for a naturally born citizen to earn that right is by entering into military service.


So the last three presidents have no right to be 'proud' Americans, this is your position?..........:doh
Click to expand...

Actually, Bush served in the national guard. He earned it.

Sure it is, look how many don't make it........;)
You sure are serving up a heaping helping of Liberal mush on this thread....:lol:
I'm embarassed for you......:3oops:
Click to expand...

You aren't equipped with any of the actual knowledge necessary to determine what a liberal and conservative position actually is.

This is because you are the one arguing for entitlements.

I'm actually arguing for people earning something through actions of their own.

I know that seems weird when your used to people mindlessly following the asinine party dogma and calling those positions liberal or conservative, but what the real conservative point of view is that people should earn what they have though actions they engage in themselves, not simply be gifted it.

You argue that a bunch of people who didn't do **** to get what they have somehow deserve it, but that people who actually did something to get what they have don't deserve it.

That is a very liberal position to hold. It's just like welfare. People who didn't earn what they receive thinking they should simply be gifted it.

I don't think people should be gifted any sort of entitlement. They should all take an active role in earning what they receive. Doesn't matter to me if the entitlement is welfare or citizenship. It's about the basic principle of earning what you have through personal achievement.

For example, I myself didn't do **** to earn my citizenship. I freely admit that. I was born here, and I never served in any branch of the military. Every illegal alien in this country has done more than I have to become an American. Every single person who has served in any branch of the military has done more than I have to become an American. They have a right to be proud to be an American.

The most I can do is be proud of my country. I can take no pride in what I am, though, because I did not earn it.
 
Tucker Case said:
.....I want illegal people here .....
.......
Click to expand...

This statement alone discredits everything you have been saying in this post. For some distorted reason, you are advocating that we just let our borders be overrun and do nothing about it.

It just goes to reinforce my oft state opinion that being an 'independant' is just another word for being a guilt ridden, bleeding heart liberal who amongst other things, would forgo the the law for some misplaced, touchy feely act of compassion.

Get a life. Illegal, is illegal. We do not need, nor do we want our country flooded by the refuse of countries who are encouraged by Liberals to turn this country into the same mess that they have sought to flee.
 
Tucker Case said:
Moderator's Warning:
You are not a moderator and, thus, telling people to stay on topic is an act of trolling. Refrain from doing this in the future. If you have issue with a person's posts, report the post. This includes posts made by moderators. Do not try and play moderator.
Click to expand...

And you have the audacity to say that Sherrif Joe is overstepping his authority?
 
Boomyal said:
This statement alone discredits everything you have been saying in this post. For some distorted reason, you are advocating that we just let our borders be overrun and do nothing about it.

It just goes to reinforce my oft state opinion that being an 'independant' is just another word for being a guilt ridden, bleeding heart liberal who amongst other things, would forgo the the law for some misplaced, touchy feely act of compassion.

Get a life. Illegal, is illegal. We do not need, nor do we want our country flooded by the refuse of countries who are encouraged by Liberals to turn this country into the same mess that they have sought to flee.
Click to expand...

Why is it "illegal is illegal" when it is about immigration, but it is not "illegal is illegal" when it comes to illegal search and seizure?

And your opinion about independents has no merit. It is not based in reality.

You don't know me, nor are you aware of my political views. The most you can know from this thread is that A. I don't hate illegal aliens, I like many of them in fact B. have no respect for natural born Americans who feel they deserve their status without having done **** to earn it that then feel they should demonize those who have done something to earn it and C. I'm not stupid enough to assume "Illegal alien = Mexican" because I'm aware of the fact that there are millions of non-Mexican illegal immigrants in this country.

It's asinine to assume that my opinions about illegal immigration have any bearing whatsoever on my political views elsewhere.

It is also asinine to assume that my stance is based on guilt or being a bleeding heart or that I believe it is a "misplaced, touchy feely act of compassion" .

It has nothing to do with compassion, guilt or having a bleeding heart.

It has everything to do with actually knowing the people whom we are speaking of on a very personal level. Quite frankly, I care a great deal more for many illegal and former illegal immigrants than I ever will for the average American.

Anyone who has had the same experiences as I have would hold the same positions as I do. Anyone.

And it wouldn't have anything to do with guilt, or compassion, or a bleeding heart. It would simply be a fact of existence.
 
OK.... here we ago again.......

ILLEGAL.... means illegal
NO,...... means NO
UP...... is actually UP
Obama....... Sucks


Now that we have gotten that out of the way..... The Illegals need to get OUT. We need to defend our border with a shoot to kill order IF neccessary.
The problem is serious!
 
The Giant Noodle said:
ILLEGAL.... means illegal
Click to expand...

Yes. But that little nugget of mindless rhetoric is neither limited to immigration nor a valid argument of any sort.

NO,...... means NO
Click to expand...

I wil inform Ben Roethlisberger immediately about this amazing fact.

UP...... is actually UP
Click to expand...

That depends on a person's perspective, actually.

If someone points to what would be considered "Down" on one side of the planet, they are actually pointing in the direction that would be called "Up" on the opposite side of the planet.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. having the ability to understand multiple perspectives at once is a valuable talent to have, IMO.

Obama....... Sucks
Click to expand...

Not sure how it's relevent, but I generally agree.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way..... The Illegals need to get OUT. We need to defend our border with a shoot to kill order IF neccessary.
The problem is serious!
Click to expand...

Why, exactly, is the problem "serious"?

Why, exactly, does actively trying to become an American warrant being killed? Is it merely the method employed, or is there something else to it? Are you also in favor of people being killed for filing other forms of paperwork?
 
The Giant Noodle said:
OK.... here we ago again.......

ILLEGAL.... means illegal
NO,...... means NO
UP...... is actually UP
Obama....... Sucks


Now that we have gotten that out of the way..... The Illegals need to get OUT. We need to defend our border with a shoot to kill order IF neccessary.
The problem is serious!
Click to expand...

Illegals are only half the problems. The other half is the scum who hire illegals.Because it is those scum who attract illegals here like shit attracts flies. These people in my opinion are worse than the illegals and therefore should suffer a harsher punishment than the illegals. Its like saying we should punish enemy spies but not do anything to Americans who deliberately give them the classified info.
 
Last edited:
Tucker Case said:
The only difference between an "anchor baby" and any other natural born American citizen is that the anchor babies parents are always someone who put effort into becoming an American, and thus earned it more.

As I said, most Americans are simply the parts that failed to dribble down mommy's leg or pool up in her belly button.

I don't think most of them deserve **** as far as special rights go. They didn't earn it, their parents didn't earn it.


there are only two types of people in this world who have earned the right to be "proud" of being American: Those who served in the military, and those who immigrated here (regardless of whether it was legally or illegally).

Just being born is no achievement.
Click to expand...

OMG!!!!!!!!! Tuck has become a Dueler!!!!!!!!!!

I knew you'd come around one of these days. :rock :lamo
 
Crunch said:
OMG!!!!!!!!! Tuck has become a Dueler!!!!!!!!!!

I knew you'd come around one of these days. :rock :lamo
Click to expand...

Don't be so sure:

that the anchor babies parents are always someone who put effort into becoming an American, and thus earned it more.
Click to expand...

:2razz:

But well-played, nonetheless. :mrgreen:
 
Tucker Case said:
Yes. But that little nugget of mindless rhetoric is neither limited to immigration nor a valid argument of any sort.
Click to expand...

Your arguments in this case go from the rediculous to the absurd. When you openly call a stand for enforcement of the law, 'mindless rhetoric', you once again show your true colors.

All of your seeming eruditeness belongs in the same file as those espousing the financial soundness of National Healthcare.
 
Boomyal said:
You see Partisan, Liberals never do, regardless of whether they hide behind the lable of moderate, independant or centrist.
Click to expand...

Catz Part Deux said:
God forbid that those who label themselves conservatives should UNDERSTAND, APPLY, and UPHOLD the constitution. Because...the constitution is clearly a liberal conspiracy, right?

When did the litmus test for conservativism become a willingness to undermine the foundational documents of this country?
Click to expand...

Noticed you missed this, booyah.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom