Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

[Navy Pride]

This is just the beginning of the revolt against Obama Socialist Health Care.........Way to go Idaho.............

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100318/ap_on_go_co/us_health_overhaul_states


Idaho first to sign law aimed at health care plan

By JOHN MILLER, Associated Press Writer John Miller, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 53 mins ago


BOISE, Idaho – Idaho took the lead in a growing, nationwide fight against health care overhaul Wednesday when its governor became the first to sign a measure requiring the state attorney general to sue the federal government if residents are forced to buy health insurance.

Similar legislation is pending in 37 other states.

 

[Wiseone]

Why do you always refer to it as "Obama Socialist Healthcare" I know what you're getting at but the grammar of those words just make me respect your position even less. It just sounds like three words strewn together without a thought to anything except making it sound bad. Why not "Obama's socialist healthcare" or just "Obama's healthcare plan?" Why is the word socialist even in there? It doesn't really add anything. Whether its socialist or not, a word with a huge variety of meanings and accepted by everyone to some degree, it seems like the word is only there to remind people its "socialist" and thus bad. Socialism in all its forms isn't evil at all, and like I said, we all accept and support to some degree. Why try and turn it into a fear mongering word?

 

[Renae]

Why do you always refer to it as "Obama Socialist Healthcare" I know what you're getting at but the grammar of those words just make me respect your position even less. It just sounds like three words strewn together without a thought to anything except making it sound bad. Why not "Obama's socialist healthcare" or just "Obama's healthcare plan?" Why is the word socialist even in there? It doesn't really add anything. Whether its socialist or not, a word with a huge variety of meanings and accepted by everyone to some degree, it seems like the word is only there to remind people its "socialist" and thus bad. Socialism in all its forms isn't evil at all, and like I said, we all accept and support to some degree. Why try and turn it into a fear mongering word?

Socialism is inheriently immoral and evil.

 

[jujuman13]

Why do you always refer to it as "Obama Socialist Healthcare" I know what you're getting at but the grammar of those words just make me respect your position even less. It just sounds like three words strewn together without a thought to anything except making it sound bad. Why not "Obama's socialist healthcare" or just "Obama's healthcare plan?" Why is the word socialist even in there? It doesn't really add anything. Whether its socialist or not, a word with a huge variety of meanings and accepted by everyone to some degree, it seems like the word is only there to remind people its "socialist" and thus bad. Socialism in all its forms isn't evil at all, and like I said, we all accept and support to some degree. Why try and turn it into a fear mongering word?

Largely because they have no idea what they are writing about and 'Obama's Socialist Healthcare' sounds good.

 

[VanceMack]

Why do you always refer to it as "Obama Socialist Healthcare" I know what you're getting at but the grammar of those words just make me respect your position even less. It just sounds like three words strewn together without a thought to anything except making it sound bad. Why not "Obama's socialist healthcare" or just "Obama's healthcare plan?" Why is the word socialist even in there? It doesn't really add anything. Whether its socialist or not, a word with a huge variety of meanings and accepted by everyone to some degree, it seems like the word is only there to remind people its "socialist" and thus bad. Socialism in all its forms isn't evil at all, and like I said, we all accept and support to some degree. Why try and turn it into a fear mongering word?

The government is saying directly comply or go to jail. Answer your own question.

 

[Hatuey]

Socialism is inheriently immoral and evil.

Lol. You do know the military is one big socialist program right?

 

[hazlnut]

This is just the beginning of the revolt against Obama Socialist Health Care.........Way to go Idaho.............

I guess Navy is still not reading his own articles.............

Constitutional law experts say the movement is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states.

Way to go, political posturing with a symbolic and legally unfounded action.........

And Way Go Navy Pride.........

 

[VanceMack]

Lol. You do know the military is one big socialist program right?

Interesting...How so?

 

[Renae]

Lol. You do know the military is one big socialist program right?

You do know you make absolutely no sense right?

It's the MILITARY. Something you've never understood.

 

[hazlnut]

Socialism is inheriently immoral and evil.

Sure, you say that now.

But when the socialized mail delivers your copy of Men's Health and your socialized veteran's benefits check......

And when the socialized police patrol your city.........or the socialized paramedics save your life...........

And when you drive on the socialized roads...........to your socialized public school......or the socialized rest stop near the socialize state park.......where you meet friends for social interaction around the the camp fire.......

.......and should your fire get out of control..... guess what? Those socialized firefighters will show up......

 

[Navy Pride]

Lol. You do know the military is one big socialist program right?

When did you serve?

 

[Navy Pride]

I guess Navy is still not reading his own articles.............



Way to go, political posturing with a symbolic and legally unfounded action.........

And Way Go Navy Pride.........

I read that my left wing friend.............we shall see when 37 states revolt against Obama's forced social health care..

When are you lefties going to realize the American people don't want this

 

[Sir Loin]

Sure, you say that now.

But when the socialized mail delivers your copy of Men's Health and your socialized veteran's benefits check......

And when the socialized police patrol your city.........or the socialized paramedics save your life...........

And when you drive on the socialized roads...........to your socialized public school......or the socialized rest stop near the socialize state park.......where you meet friends for social interaction around the the camp fire.......

.......and should your fire get out of control..... guess what? Those socialized firefighters will show up......

Oh yes Mr. V, looky looky, according to hazelnut you are driving on "socialized" roads! Your children, they attend a "socialized" school! You might take your children to one of those oh so underfunded and understaffed "socialized" Texas state parks! You get your mail from the "socialized" post office, which might just have to cut back on how many days a week they deliver! You are accepting "socialized" Vet benefits! Why if you ever attened a "social interaction" you are in fact a socialist!

You ever get the idea this hazelnut is about as attached to rational thoughtful discourse as is the average blog rant at Huffington Post?:screwy

 

[VanceMack]

Sure, you say that now.

But when the socialized mail delivers your copy of Men's Health and your socialized veteran's benefits check......

And when the socialized police patrol your city.........or the socialized paramedics save your life...........

And when you drive on the socialized roads...........to your socialized public school......or the socialized rest stop near the socialize state park.......where you meet friends for social interaction around the the camp fire.......

.......and should your fire get out of control..... guess what? Those socialized firefighters will show up......

When your federal government is paying 70% of the GDP on debt payments alone...honest to God...you think any of this is going to matter?

The nice thing about those schools, police departments, fire departments...they are STATE and CITY run programs and by and large, run pretty efficiently. Now...socialist strates lioke California ARE trying to give the fed a run for their money in the bankrupt debt department...but...sooner or later...the rent comes due baby...

When OUR federal government has saddled us with a to-date 13.5 trillion dollar debt and just upped the limit to 15 trillion...because guess what...they already KNOW they are going to end up there...and when they demonstrate they cant manage Medicare without incurring 80 billion a year in fraudulent chrages...what makes you or anyone think the fed is going to be able to handle health care?

 

[VanceMack]

I read that my left wing friend.............we shall see when 37 states revolt against Obama's forced social health care..

When are you lefties going to realize the American people don't want this

37 states...another 20 and they ALL will have taken a stand against Obama. Its a shame after he went through the trouble to visit them all...

 

[Orion]

There are some really good arguments against the federal health care plan, but I don't see them in this thread. "Socialism ZOMMGGGG" is not logical and just makes your side look bad.

I really enjoy reading posts from opponents to the plan who know what they're talking about.

And just because Idaho will sue the Fed, it doesn't mean they'll actually succeed.

 

[Navy Pride]

37 states...another 20 and they ALL will have taken a stand against Obama. Its a shame after he went through the trouble to visit them all...

I love it...............:applaud

 

[Hatuey]

Interesting...How so?

Well, Vance, let us look at the definition of 'socialism' shall we?

WordNet Search - 3.0

Definitions of socialism on the Web:

1.a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
2. an economic system based on state ownership of capital

Who would you say "owns" the military? Who controls the means of production? The answer to both these questions is the same (if you read Marx, it starts with a "P").

Would you disagree when I say that the military is almost entirely government run? The military is a publicly owned industry operated by the people. It provides those who work for it with benefits like housing, medicine and food on top of the salary they already get. You could even go to school almost free of charge when you're in the military. You know where you can go to university and pay almost no money? Cuba, Venezuela, Sweden. All countries that get regularly blasted for socialist systems that provide the same exact benefits to all their residents.

Not only that but their entire recruitment campaigns are based on the very notion of working for a community. Army of One. If Obama's campaign went around saying 'A Country of One', we'd never hear the end of how it sounds like something straight out of the former USSR.

If the government did any of these things outside of the military, we'd see people go out in the streets protesting the socialism of it all.

Yet somehow, the socialism of the U.S. military is appealing. People every day join it so that they can get benefits in exchange for working for the government. I don't blame them.
----------------------

You do know you make absolutely no sense right?

It's the MILITARY. Something you've never understood.

I do not expect a right winger to actually know the meaning of socialism. So please, don't think I'm shocked that you think I make no sense when I say that the military is a socialist program. I'm glad to see you think the troops are inherently immoral and evil too.

 

[Renae]

Sure, you say that now.

But when the socialized mail delivers your copy of Men's Health and your socialized veteran's benefits check......

And when the socialized police patrol your city.........or the socialized paramedics save your life...........

And when you drive on the socialized roads...........to your socialized public school......or the socialized rest stop near the socialize state park.......where you meet friends for social interaction around the the camp fire.......

.......and should your fire get out of control..... guess what? Those socialized firefighters will show up......

This is where the term Socialism and Hazlnut diverge with reality.

Next, we'll move onto Hazlnut's theory that the 3/5's Compromise was Racist.

 

[Hatuey]

When did you serve?

Navy, tell us all about how you ran the ship when you were a clerk. - Just so I can get UtahBill to put you in your place again.

 

[Sir Loin]

There are some really good arguments against the federal health care plan, but I don't see them in this thread. "Socialism ZOMMGGGG" is not logical and just makes your side look bad.

I really enjoy reading posts from opponents to the plan who know what they're talking about.

And just because Idaho will sue the Fed, it doesn't mean they'll actually succeed.

Oh look, Orion, fresh from the duck and dodge and pretending him no know how to read the quote system, him all of a sudden is back! Not that he can address that which he fled from, but hey, him got real important opinions him thank you need to consider. Him have integrity! Chuckle.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-media/68172-liberal-media-5.html#post1058623087

Watch out, if you quote Encyclopedia Britannica to Orion, he drone on about an "obscure" reference! Chuckle.

 

[Renae]

So Hazlnut, what exactly does the Military "PRODUCE"? What do POLICE "Produce"? What does the Post Office "PRODUCE"?

I'll give you a hint, not a damn thing.

The Military is a Cosntitutionally mandated requirement to keep the Country safe.

The Post Office serves the country in ensuring mail gets around, a novel idea for it's time, but the advent of Email, and companies like Fed EX and UPS show how little the Post Office is really in demand anymore.. that might explain why it's going bankrupt...

And police... are a state function to maintain law and order... they don't PRODUCE anything.

 

[Hatuey]

So Hazlnut, what exactly does the Military "PRODUCE"? What do POLICE "Produce"? What does the Post Office "PRODUCE"?

What do doctors 'produce'? What do health care professionals 'produce'? If the standard for socialism is the production of a 'product'. Then why do you oppose Obama's plan for health care?

 

[VanceMack]

Well, Vance, let us look at the definition of 'socialism' shall we?

WordNet Search - 3.0



Who would you say "owns" the military? Who controls the means of production? The answer to both these questions is the same (if you read Marx, it starts with a "P").

Would you disagree when I say that the military is almost entirely government run? The military is a publicly owned industry operated by the people. It provides those who work for it with benefits like housing, medicine and food on top of the salary they already get. You could even go to school almost free of charge when you're in the military. You know where you can go to university and pay almost no money? Cuba, Venezuela, Sweden. All countries that get regularly blasted for socialist systems that provide the same exact benefits to all their residents.

Not only that but their entire recruitment campaigns are based on the very notion of working for a community. Army of One. If Obama's campaign went around saying 'A Country of One', we'd never hear the end of how it sounds like something straight out of the former USSR.

If the government did any of these things outside of the military, we'd see people go out in the streets protesting the socialism of it all.

Yet somehow, the socialism of the U.S. military is appealing. People every day join it so that they can get benefits in exchange for working for the government. I don't blame them.
----------------------



I do not expect a right winger to actually know the meaning of socialism. So please, don't think I'm shocked that you think I make no sense when I say that the military is a socialist program. I'm glad to see you think the troops are inherently immoral and evil too.

OK...lets stay with that...

How is my decision to work for the federal government any different than you or anyone else choosing to work for ANY private employer? We both negotiate salaries and benefits packages (and make no mistake...the government does not 'provide' us housing or medical care. Every year we receive a statement declaring exactly what those services are worth as a componenet of our benefit package).

When you hire on with ATT you are given a salary and the option to buy into insurance. Your salary is going to be CONSIDERABLY higher than that of the soldier working a comparable job. Again...its all part of that negotiation.

ATT might ask you to go work in the field. If so you will likely be paid a per diem and maybe even hazardous duty pay. So too does the soldier.

The soldier WORKS for the government. The government PAYS the soldier and honors the benefit it promised in return for no overtime pay, some pretty ugly working and living conditions, devastation to families, etc. Without the benefit and compensation package the government as employer offers it is highly unlikely that too many people would stay in and make it a career.

Still looking for the socialized aspect.

 

[Navy Pride]

Navy, tell us all about how you ran the ship when you were a clerk. - Just so I can get UtahBill to put you in your place again.

You can down my service or any other members service but at least we served in some capacity when our country called unlike you.............