Lesbian teen back at Miss. school after prom flap

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

spud_meister said:

i was going to wear a dress to my valedictorian dinner, until they said i wouldn't be allowed in if i did

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why? were you gonna shave your legs?

texmaster said:

by that logic pedophilia would be legal if a child agrees to it.

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Children are not legally allowed to make decisions regarding the sexual consent they give. Two adults are.

Our legal system does not allow for polygamy because of the unnecessary changes marriage laws would undergo. This is not the case for gay marriage. If they divorce, the homo with the most money pays the other spousal support. If they have kids the poor homo gets the house and kids and money. Simple changes.

Horses do not give consent. At least not in a way any human can understand.

Neither do goats.

Do you have any other ridiculous examples you'd like to bring up? Because I'm sick of you bigots diluting homosexuality with red herrings.

PS: I am a black man and you'll find very few people on this forum who are willing to support the civil rights movement more than I . No. I am not offended when gays identify with the movement of Martin Luther King Jr.

Jerry said:

What I don't understand is why she went to the ACLU. I mean yeah I get the argument, but why didn't she just let things be and show up on prom night, Let the school try to stop her from entering and then call the cops?

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Mississippi is not a place where you want to go around pissing off the locals in obscure sections of the state.

Jerry said:

It's not discrimination if there's no right.

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I call BS on this. Trying growing up gay and then come tell me that discrimination doesn't exist because there aren't 10,000 laws for all of the potential scenarios that gay people may find themselves in. Do you know what equal rights are? Stop feigning obtuseness. You KNOW this was discrimination.

Likewise, they can't keep her and her girlfriend out of a prom at a public school because no law exists saying that same-sex couples can't attend prom. That was a rule that this public school invented according to the moral values of one administrator. She doesn't have the right to decide that homosexuals are excluded from an event inclusive of the student body, and neither do you. The courts will be ruling in her favor shortly.

If it was a private school they could determine whatever they want.

Jerry said:

The ridicule from her peers is the fault of her peers, not the administrator, and they're just pissed about the prom, not really about her being a lesbian.

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Really? You've personally interviewed them all?

If these are the actions of her school admin, I can only imagine what the student body is like. This girl is brave for standing up in such a bigoted environment, and you do her a great disservice by refusing to acknowledge that.

Jerry said:

What I don't understand is why she went to the ACLU. I mean yeah I get the argument, but why didn't she just let things be and show up on prom night, Let the school try to stop her from entering and then call the cops?

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You can't understand why a 17 year old wouldn't want to just show up at a prom in a school where the admins don't like her for who she is, are actively trying to oppress her individuality, and where the student body is likely equally as harsh? Please, don't tell me you can't connect the dots here.

Jerry said:

See that's what blacks did. They didn't just file complaints, they actually went to these things and let school officials stand in their way. That's how they got **** don.

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That's nice.

Jerry said:

[*]The 'rights' argument fails every time it's tried, and here it doesn't even apply so that's a double fail.

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The only place where a debate about the "right" to go to prom took place was in your mind.

Jerry said:

[*]Even if it did apply, prom is such a petty thing to cat fight over that it only makes this girl look like an attention whore. This is the wrong battle.

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I think it's the perfect battle and she's brave for taking it on, instead of taking it sitting down. You're just annoyed by the progression and enforcement of gay rights, it's plain as day. But by all means, keep giving yourself a hernia every time something like this happens and the system doesn't take your side. It's your health, bucko.

Jerry said:

[*]She shot her cause in the foot with mismanagement by not letting the school actually physically stop her from entering the dance, so even if school dances were a right and this was a good battle to pick, she blew it.

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How did she blow it? She's going to win her court case, and then the school will be forced to comply. It will set a precedent for all future generations of same-sex prom goers in the State of MI. Sounds like a victory to me.

Only in your own head did she fail. And you're clinging to the weak argument that the way she went about it made her a failure.

Your reasoning is quite pathetic Jerry. You can't acknowledge the fact that she was discriminated against, nor that the administration over reacted and behaved inappropriately in the public system. On top of that, you have moderate, left and right wing posters at DP all attacking you. At this point you are just embarrassing yourself.

It's you who has picked the wrong battle today. This was a poor choice for trying to run your workarounds on gay rights issues.

But by all means, just keep doing the broken record routine. Maybe if we keep reading the same thing over and over again, we'll be bored to the point of retardation and might fall for it.

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Jerry said:

Yes we are, the legal definition has bearing because the school's response was in reaction to legal action.

As per the Lemon Test the thing you are not being allowed access to must be a civil right. School dances are not civil rights. If the school holds a dance then it has to be open to all students, but there's no mandate to have a dance at all.

Perhaps it's over reaction but the school is perfectly within their rights to just shut the whole thing down.

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Sure they can shut it down. However, the point that you are missing is the "why" which is the crux of this entire thing. Without that, this story could be about anything.

Jerry said:

They were careful not to say why they shut it down

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Of course they did. Because they knew why, but by being vague, they could explain it away with plausible deniablity. They may be discriminatory, but they're not stupid.

Jerry said:

See all those other examples are equally trivial.

This is just the wrong battle to pick. The prom is trivial so even if the girls win it just makes gay-rights look petty.

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I don't agree. This is a small example of a much larger problem. In no way does it make gay rights look petty. It makes it look consistent.

Latest Development:

Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student

A Mississippi high school faces a lawsuit over its decision to cancel its prom rather than allow a lesbian high school student to attend with her girlfriend.

The lawsuit, filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, alleges that officials at Itawamba Agricultural High School in Fulton, Mississippi, are violating the student's First Amendment right to freedom of expression.

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Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student - CNN.com

Most people will strongly disagree with Itawamba County's decision to call off the prom over this issue, but is it deserving of a lawsuit? To me this is just another example of the asses at the ACLU taking things a step too far.

Since when does the school district have to sponsor a prom in order to satisfy a student's first amendment rights? To me, the decision to call of the prom was stupid, but was probably the most reasonable course of action from a legal standpoint.

"The government, and that includes public schools, can't censor someone's free expression just because some other person might not like it."

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The school isn't "censoring free expression" by deciding not to sponsor a prom night. McMillen is free to wear her tux and dance all she wants - even organize a private event to replace the prom. If the student body is behind her like she claims, it seems that such an event might be well attended. If not - she really has no right to a captive audience.



So now the ACLU contends the student has some "right" to a prom?

Taylor said:

Latest Development:

Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student

Mississippi school sued for canceling prom over lesbian student - CNN.com

Most people will strongly disagree with Itawamba County's decision to call off the prom over this issue, but is it deserving of a lawsuit? To me this is just another example of the asses at the ACLU taking things a step too far.

Since when does the school district have to sponsor a prom in order to satisfy a student's first amendment rights? To me, the decision to call of the prom was stupid, but was probably the most reasonable course of action from a legal standpoint.

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Seems to me, from a legal standpoint, the most reasonable course of action would have been to NOT cancel the prom. That way, there would have been no lawsuit to deal with.

The school isn't "censoring free expression" by deciding not to sponsor a prom night. McMillen is free to wear her tux and dance all she wants - even organize a private event to replace the prom. If the student body is behind her like she claims, it seems that such an event might be well attended. If not - she really has no right to a captive audience.

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This is the same kind of cop out that anti-GM folks use when they say, "gays can marry just like anyone else. Just not someone of the opposite sex... like anyone else." It is an obtuse argument and misrepresents the facts. The school didn't decide not to sponsor the prom for any reason other than the fact that this girl wanted to bring another girl as a date. Any other explanation is just a misrepresentation.

So now the ACLU contends the student has some "right" to a prom?

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Legally, I'm not sure if the ACLU has a case. It is obvious that the school board canceled the prom because of discrimination. However, with the prom now canceled for ALL students, legally proving discrimination will be difficult if not impossible.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Seems to me, from a legal standpoint, the most reasonable course of action would have been to NOT cancel the prom. That way, there would have been no lawsuit to deal with.

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Well, duh...

But if the school district wanted to keep to its "standards" the best way to go about it was to cancel the event. In other words, there is no place for such standards in a public school.

This is the same kind of cop out that anti-GM folks use when they say, "gays can marry just like anyone else. Just not someone of the opposite sex... like anyone else." It is an obtuse argument and misrepresents the facts. The school didn't decide not to sponsor the prom for any reason other than the fact that this girl wanted to bring another girl as a date. Any other explanation is just a misrepresentation.

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Like I said, most people will think the decision to call of the prom is stupid. That doesn't change the fact that the school isn't "censoring free expression" by deciding not to sponsor a prom night.

Legally, I'm not sure if the ACLU has a case. It is obvious that the school board canceled the prom because of discrimination. However, with the prom now canceled for ALL students, legally proving discrimination will be difficult if not impossible.

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If you are canceling an event for everyone, you aren't discriminating. They may have carried out that action due to bias against a gay student, but it's not illegal to be biased.

Taylor said:

If you are canceling an event for everyone, you aren't discriminating. They may have carried out that action due to bias against a gay student, but it's not illegal to be biased.

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I suspect the law suit won't go very far, but I think this whole thing will have put down a marker.

School boards in the future will refer to this case before making discriminatory and arbitrary decisions. I think our courageous little lesbian can feel proud of having achieved something, albeit a small thing, in the War on Bigotry.

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Gina said:

I agree, it's ridiculous.

A few years ago, in my school district, two gay guys went to the high school prom and with nary a peep from anyone. I only learned about it from some kids who went and it was just an incidental mention, not a big deal. "__________ was at the prom with his boy friend. They looked nice."

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Perhaps that would have been the best solution here as well...instead of announcing it weeks before and turning it into a 'cause'. Why didnt they just buy their tickets and show up?

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

VanceMack said:

Perhaps that would have been the best solution here as well...instead of announcing it weeks before and turning it into a 'cause'. Why didnt they just buy their tickets and show up?

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It would seem like a good idea, and might have worked. But, considering that they were told that they would have to arrive separately and they would be asked to leave if someone said anything, it sounds like the rule might have been directed at them and there probably would have been someone looking for them to arrive and deny them entry. And they definitely wouldn't have let the girl in wearing a tux. So this would probably have still come up later, the only difference would have been that the other students would have gotten their prom, oh and there definitely would have been money involved in that lawsuit.

This girl was trying to do the responsible thing and not hide the fact that she wanted to go to the prom with her gf and wear a tux. She did the right thing in asking permission and pointing out to the school that their policies were discriminatory.

roguenuke said:

That's later, after prom, and most likely not so adult-supervised.

I didn't put it in, because, well, I was, and still am, a huge nerd. I didn't do any of that stuff in HS and if my friends did, I didn't know about it. I was happy to have it that way. The biggest part of my Jr prom was breaking up with my date (really shouldn't have agreed to be his gf in the first place), and agreed to date a friend of mine. Actually, I'm sure there might have been some uncomfortable people at my prom if I had went to the prom with the second instead of the first, since I'm white, the guy is black, and it was a little town in the south. But at least my school still would have let me go, there would have just been some uncomfortable people.
I went stag to my Sr prom because it was a new school and I didn't know anyone.

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Awww... Had I only known, I would have at least sent you a corsage.

Taylor said:

If you are canceling an event for everyone, you aren't discriminating. They may have carried out that action due to bias against a gay student, but it's not illegal to be biased.

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But a school cannot keep same sex couples out of school events. That's why the prom was canceled. You can claim it wasn't due to discrimination, but it was 100% fueled by it. They canceled it because they didn't want gay people there. There is basis for a lawsuit, though not one that I would say would result in monetary compensation. But rather one in which results in disciplinary action against the school administrators responsible A) For the no gay couples rule and then B) For canceling the prom.

While it is not illegal to be biased, in a professional workplace the bias must be left behind.

This is yet another reason why you should do everything within your power to put your kids in private school. They learn 10 times as much and deal with 10 times less of this nonsensical bull****.

Erod said:

This is yet another reason why you should do everything within your power to put your kids in private school. They learn 10 times as much and deal with 10 times less of this nonsensical bull****.

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And this would have been handled differently in a private school, how?

I guess there will always be those who will use any excuse to attack state education.

Ikari said:

But a school cannot keep same sex couples out of school events.

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Probably - but definitely debatable (i.e. the county could have made a case and argued it, but probably would have lost). Schools have traditionally been granted leeway in restricting what are considered rights for adults (e.g. schools can eliminate "KKK Club," can censor sex talk in the school paper, and can send a kid home for wearing a t-shirt with a provocative message).

Ikari said:

You can claim it wasn't due to discrimination, but it was 100% fueled by it.

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Fueled by bias. Discrimination is an act. They clearly intended to discriminate in terms of a number of things (dress, age, school affiliation, sex of prom date). Because the prom was never held, there was technically no discrimination (but see comment, below).

Ikari said:

They canceled it because they didn't want gay people there.

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More precisely - they didn't want overt gay behavior there.

Ikari said:

There is basis for a lawsuit, though not one that I would say would result in monetary compensation.

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Not a very strong one, I would argue. The ACLU claims that the cancelation violated her constitutional right of free speech and wants the court to force the school to sponsor a prom night. Really? What's next? Is the ACLU going to sue students who choose not to attend? Are they constitutionally bound to provide this girl with a prom, too?

As I see it, the school has two options:
1) Strike or revise the opposite sex restriction for their prom events.
2) Stop sponsoring prom events.

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

roguenuke said:

It would seem like a good idea, and might have worked. But, considering that they were told that they would have to arrive separately and they would be asked to leave if someone said anything, it sounds like the rule might have been directed at them and there probably would have been someone looking for them to arrive and deny them entry. And they definitely wouldn't have let the girl in wearing a tux. So this would probably have still come up later, the only difference would have been that the other students would have gotten their prom, oh and there definitely would have been money involved in that lawsuit.

This girl was trying to do the responsible thing and not hide the fact that she wanted to go to the prom with her gf and wear a tux. She did the right thing in asking permission and pointing out to the school that their policies were discriminatory.

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Missin' the point...if they hadnt told anyone squat...announced their little plans to the world and just gone about their business...no one would have known and PROBABLY wouldnt have cared and the school wouldnt have been put in the position of having to make the decision it did.

As much as homosexuals feel downtrodden and oppressed...do you ever think that maybe just maybe the majority of people are TIRED of all of this and tired of having all the rabid f###ing nutbags and their own little bigoted and biased prejudices aimed at us because we happen to disagree? See...when TOLERENCE isnt a two way street...an awful lot of us get tired of the whole thing and reach a point where we just say...fine...f### you...we arent going to change and now you have created an enemy where before you didnt HAVE one...

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

VanceMack said:

Missin' the point...if they hadnt told anyone squat...announced their little plans to the world and just gone about their business...no one would have known and PROBABLY wouldnt have cared and the school wouldnt have been put in the position of having to make the decision it did.

As much as homosexuals feel downtrodden and oppressed...do you ever think that maybe just maybe the majority of people are TIRED of all of this and tired of having all the rabid f###ing nutbags and their own little bigoted and biased prejudices aimed at us because we happen to disagree? See...when TOLERENCE isnt a two way street...an awful lot of us get tired of the whole thing and reach a point where we just say...fine...f### you...we arent going to change and now you have created an enemy where before you didnt HAVE one...

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Oh well forgive the world for being intolerant of your intolerance. You know, no one is making you people listen when a homo makes a comment about being homo. :shrug:

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

VanceMack said:

As much as homosexuals feel downtrodden and oppressed...do you ever think that maybe just maybe the majority of people are TIRED of all of this and tired of having all the rabid f###ing nutbags and their own little bigoted and biased prejudices aimed at us because we happen to disagree? See...when TOLERENCE isnt a two way street...an awful lot of us get tired of the whole thing and reach a point where we just say...fine...f### you...we arent going to change and now you have created an enemy where before you didnt HAVE one...

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So... you're saying we have to tolerate your intolerance?

Andalublue said:

And this would have been handled differently in a private school, how?

I guess there will always be those who will use any excuse to attack state education.

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In a religious school, she'd have been kicked out (legally) when they realized she was a lesbian. Thus, no issue.

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

windovervocalcords said:

Nothing more deviant than hate.

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Sorry but hate is a normal reaction to some things. I don't see hate present here but ignorance is rampant form what I can see.

If we are forced to condone what many normal people see as aberrant or devious or perverted behavior then the perverts and freaks are running the asylum.

How does a girl at this age become indoctrinated into this choice? All this kind of story does is make easier for the next young person to talked into this choice.

So... you're saying we have to tolerate your intolerance?

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It certainly would be hypocritical not to.

Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Councilman said:

How does a girl at this age become indoctrinated into this choice? All this kind of story does is make easier for the next young person to talked into this choice.

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indoctrinated in what? being a lesbian? :rofl