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Lesbian teen back at Miss. school after prom flap

Panache said:
The students received a memo explaining the rules of the prom. Proper attire for men and women among them, along with who you could bring. It's pretty common actually. I went out with an 18 yr old when I was 22, and she couldn't bring me to prom because I was too old.
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Never had such "rules" at my school. I went to four proms and I don't recall being given any rules about what I could or could not wear, or who I could or could not bring.
 
Jerry said:
It cheapens the whole gay-rights movement.
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Yep just like that whole fight over riding in the back of a bus cheapened the civil rights movement. :roll:
 
jallman said:
That's not the point. If there had been no prom to start with, that would be one thing. But this woman attempted to take an event that the vast majority of kids look forward to, that was already planned, and withhold it in order to enforce a moral authority over these kids that she didn't have to start with. She did nothing illegal but she definitely put herself and the school in the line of liability for civil damages. These cases where someone does something maliciously, out of the bounds of their authority, or in negligence are why we have civil damages to start with.
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I'm not saying that there isn't case to be upset. I just can't get all fired up over something as trivial as prom.

jallman said:
Without damages being paid out as a penalty, there is nothing to reinforce the ruling. The damages aren't so much a reward to the kids for being hurt by this woman's actions; they are a penalty to remind the woman to never exert control she doesn't have authority to exert again.
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Sure you can, punishments on the administration who implemented the rules. Suspensions, firing, whatever is appropriate. You can do that without paying out money.
 
Jerry said:
The thing eating at me is this fight is over something as frivolous as a school dance.

It cheapens the whole gay-rights movement.
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It's not frivolous because it's not about the dance. It's about an atmosphere that this young lady endures that is so dismissive of her rights that they would punish all the children just to keep her from expressing her individuality.

The prom thing might have been the powder keg that started the media firestorm, but you fail to acknowledge that if they did this over a big event like the prom, she surely endures this kind of discrimination every day of her life in other ways.
 
rivrrat said:
Never had such "rules" at my school. I went to four proms and I don't recall being given any rules about what I could or could not wear, or who I could or could not bring.
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We did. But the rules weren't girl's couldn't wear a tux. It was on appropriateness of dress so that you wearing something.
 
rivrrat said:
Never had such "rules" at my school. I went to four proms and I don't recall being given any rules about what I could or could not wear, or who I could or could not bring.
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Me either.

There was a kind of loose expectation but aside from the typical 'no racism, sexism etc et' we wore what we wanted.
 
Ikari said:
We did. But the rules weren't girl's couldn't wear a tux. It was on appropriateness of dress so that you wearing something.
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I would actually agree with the school on this one because it's well within their rights to require a dress code. If they allow the couple to attend then that couple should attend dressed appropriately for their sex: in dresses.

...unless one of them claims to be a transsexual....
 
Ikari said:
I'm not saying that there isn't case to be upset. I just can't get all fired up over something as trivial as prom.
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It's not about "the prom". I would feel the same way if they had cancelled the homecoming or sadie hawkins dance, the football program, a school trip to the museum, the debate team, or honor's society over the same ignorant reasons.

The fact that it is the prom is secondary to the real issue here.
 
jallman said:
It's not about "the prom". I would feel the same way if they had cancelled the homecoming or sadie hawkins dance, the football program, a school trip to the museum, the debate team, or honor's society over the same ignorant reasons.

The fact that it is the prom is secondary to the real issue here.
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See all those other examples are equally trivial.

This is just the wrong battle to pick. The prom is trivial so even if the girls win it just makes gay-rights look petty.
 
Jerry said:
See all those other examples are equally trivial.

This is just the wrong battle to pick. The prom is trivial so even if the girls win it just makes gay-rights look petty.
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The school chose the battle. The student did not choose it.
 
Jerry said:
See all those other examples are equally trivial.

This is just the wrong battle to pick. The prom is trivial and even if the girls win it just makes gay-rights look petty.
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And again, you miss the point entirely. It isn't about the specific event. It is about combating the kind of attitudes and abuses of powers that lead to conflict over the trivial event to start with.

It's wholesale dishonesty to say that it is about the prom.

And I find it very telling how you keep asserting that the pro-gay rights side should back down because they look petty over a prom while you seem to be giving a pass to the woman who totally stepped out of her authority and exerted a control over the morality of her students by denying them an event based on nothing more than her disapproval. Tells me a lot about you, actually.
 
Redress said:
The school chose the battle. The student did not choose it.
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Well the students chose the battle, the school chose to escalate it. I think the students picked the right battle. It's time to show schools that they are not going to be allowed to discriminate against gays.
 
jallman said:
It's not frivolous because it's not about the dance. It's about an atmosphere that this young lady endures that is so dismissive of her rights that they would punish all the children just to keep her from expressing her individuality.

The prom thing might have been the powder keg that started the media firestorm, but you fail to acknowledge that if they did this over a big event like the prom, she surely endures this kind of discrimination every day of her life in other ways.
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The prom is not a right.

Maybe you could argue that she was being denied something while the prom was still going to happen, but now that the whole thing is shut down she's being denied nothing.
 
jallman said:
And again, you miss the point entirely. It isn't about the specific event. It is about combating the kind of attitudes and abuses of powers that lead to conflict over the trivial event to start with.

It's wholesale dishonesty to say that it is about the prom.

And I find it very telling how you keep asserting that the pro-gay rights side should back down because they look petty over a prom while you seem to be giving a pass to the woman who totally stepped out of her authority and exerted a control over the morality of her students by denying them an event based on nothing more than her disapproval. Tells me a lot about you, actually.
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It's not Tuesday why are you even on this thread. Raid invites begin going out at 4.

Edit:
Oh that's right you joined a PvP guild.
 
Jerry said:
The prom is not a right.
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No one here claimed it is. However, going to school in a reasonably safe and comfortable atmosphere without undue mental and emotional hardship being placed on you by the administration is a right.

Maybe you could argue that she was being denied something while the prom was still going to happen, but now that the whole thing is shut down she's being denied nothing.
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Ok...maybe if I type slow, you'll read slowly:

No one is claiming the she is being denied some fictitious "right" to the prom. What is being claimed is that this administrator was so committed to her desire to discriminate against this one student that she punished all the students when the girl exercised her legal rights to seek recourse for change and it looked like she might succeed. The woman's commitment to seeing this girl's individuality suppressed based on nothing more than a moral disapproval was so great that she created district wide mandates as an afterthought just to target this girl. And when that didn't work, she stopped the function which has now left the girl open to ridicule and the resentment of her peers all because this administrator was unable to put her prejudices aside and do her ****ing job.

Is that a little more clear?
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Catz Part Deux said:
"We'll show you! We'll just CANCEL THE PROM!"

I think it's time for some Footloose. Does anyone in town have a conveniently empty feed warehouse?
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My thoughts exactly. Now is the time for the rainbow unit to host these kids and unsanctioned prom night. Make it 10 times bigger and better than the school would have and then flip the school the bird and tell them to eat ****.

Man, I would have given my left nut to see two chicks dancin' and makin' out at my prom. (Well, actually I did. But that's just because I was so drunk I was seeing double. But that's another talk show.)
 
Brings to mind the public pools that didn't allow blacks. Then when they were told they had to integrate, they shut down instead.

Hopefully, the same outcome from then happens again. All public schools should be told that they can't deny access to school-sponsored events when their policies are discriminatory.

And as for the tux thing, I say as long as she's wearing something formal, what's the big deal? It's not like other people (the guys) couldn't wear that to the prom. I don't care how "traditional" it is for girls to wear a dress and guys to wear a tux. Heck, if a guy, any guy wanted to come in a dress, I'd say they should be able. The dress code would still be applied equally to everyone there, it would just not be applied due to gender (as technically it shouldn't be). It's not like a prom is an actual educational environment. It a chance for the students to socialize and have fun under adult supervision.
 
roguenuke said:
Brings to mind the public pools that didn't allow blacks. Then when they were told they had to integrate, they shut down instead.

Hopefully, the same outcome from then happens again. All public schools should be told that they can't deny access to school-sponsored events when their policies are discriminatory.

And as for the tux thing, I say as long as she's wearing something formal, what's the big deal? It's not like other people (the guys) couldn't wear that to the prom. I don't care how "traditional" it is for girls to wear a dress and guys to wear a tux. Heck, if a guy, any guy wanted to come in a dress, I'd say they should be able. The dress code would still be applied equally to everyone there, it would just not be applied due to gender (as technically it shouldn't be). It's not like a prom is an actual educational environment. It a chance for the students to socialize and have fun under adult supervision.
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And get drunk, stoned, and ****.

You left out the best part.
 
Captain America said:
And get drunk, stoned, and ****.

You left out the best part.
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That's later, after prom, and most likely not so adult-supervised.

I didn't put it in, because, well, I was, and still am, a huge nerd. I didn't do any of that stuff in HS and if my friends did, I didn't know about it. I was happy to have it that way. The biggest part of my Jr prom was breaking up with my date (really shouldn't have agreed to be his gf in the first place), and agreed to date a friend of mine. Actually, I'm sure there might have been some uncomfortable people at my prom if I had went to the prom with the second instead of the first, since I'm white, the guy is black, and it was a little town in the south. But at least my school still would have let me go, there would have just been some uncomfortable people.
I went stag to my Sr prom because it was a new school and I didn't know anyone.
 
jallman said:
It's not about "the prom". I would feel the same way if they had cancelled the homecoming or sadie hawkins dance, the football program, a school trip to the museum, the debate team, or honor's society over the same ignorant reasons.

The fact that it is the prom is secondary to the real issue here.
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Yeah I can agree with that. I'm not saying there isn't cause for standing up here. I just can't get behind the "break the bank" thing for a prom. Disciplinary action against the administrators? Ok, but for something like a prom I don't think there is any call for monetary compensation.

And to be fair, they may not even be asking for any. I think she is justified in her lawsuit and that the school cannot forbid same sex couples from attending school functions.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Captain America said:
Man, I would have given my left nut to see two chicks dancin' and makin' out at my prom. (Well, actually I did. But that's just because I was so drunk I was seeing double. But that's another talk show.)
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Actually happened at mine. It was hott at first, but then it was meh. Although when at the after party in the pool...yeah that was beyond hott.
 
Re: Mississippi School Cancels Prom

Partisan said:
I disagree, hate is a very natural emotion.....:)
It doesn't apply to this case though, but common sense does & should.....;)
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Did you not read the story?

This backwards school board tried to prevent a girl from coming to her own prom simply because of her sexual orientation.

Intelligent people understand that's the way she was born. She had no choice in the matter.

It's sickening that people like that are running a school...

Ever see a movie called Inherit the Wind? It's what happens when people cling blindly to religion...
 
jallman said:
No one here claimed it is. However, going to school in a reasonably safe and comfortable atmosphere without undue mental and emotional hardship being placed on you by the administration is a right.



Ok...maybe if I type slow, you'll read slowly:

No one is claiming the she is being denied some fictitious "right" to the prom. What is being claimed is that this administrator was so committed to her desire to discriminate against this one student that she punished all the students when the girl exercised her legal rights to seek recourse for change and it looked like she might succeed. The woman's commitment to seeing this girl's individuality suppressed based on nothing more than a moral disapproval was so great that she created district wide mandates as an afterthought just to target this girl. And when that didn't work, she stopped the function which has now left the girl open to ridicule and the resentment of her peers all because this administrator was unable to put her prejudices aside and do her ****ing job.

Is that a little more clear?
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It's not my reading, it's your damn avatar...you were anti-Obama before it was cool.

All I see coming of this thread is more of the same, from both sides. It's not discrimination if there's no right. Prom is not a right, therefore the administrator's actions are not discrimination even while they're distasteful.

The ridicule from her peers is the fault of her peers, not the administrator, and they're just pissed about the prom, not really about her being a lesbian.

What I don't understand is why she went to the ACLU. I mean yeah I get the argument, but why didn't she just let things be and show up on prom night, Let the school try to stop her from entering and then call the cops?

See that's what blacks did. They didn't just file complaints, they actually went to these things and let school officials stand in their way. That's how they got **** don.

Now it's to late, there's nothing to be prevented from doing, there's nothing on the other side of the door for an administrator to have her picture taken while blocking these girl's path.

  • The 'rights' argument fails every time it's tried, and here it doesn't even apply so that's a double fail.

  • Even if it did apply, prom is such a petty thing to cat fight over that it only makes this girl look like an attention whore. This is the wrong battle.

  • She shot her cause in the foot with mismanagement by not letting the school actually physically stop her from entering the dance, so even if school dances were a right and this was a good battle to pick, she blew it.
 
Why don't they want to attend as a couple of ladies? Why does one of them want to cross-dress at a formal occasion?

Imo it wouldn't be acceptable for a male gay couple to attend as anything other than a coupe of gentlemen; it would be just as out of place for one of them to wear a dress.
 
I agree that no one has a right to go to the prom. You can't sue because they cancelled it.

I also agree that the cancellation was wrong, much as how schools in the south cancelled proms in the 60s and 70s in order to keep interracial couples from attending.
 
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