• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

23,000 now expected to lose jobs after shuttle retirement

Ethereal said:
We're not talking about the Space Shuttle. We're talking about the cancellation of the Constellation program and the Ares rocket. …
Click to expand...

We're talking about both retirement of the the space shuttle program (7,000 jobs) and cancellation of the Constellation program (2,000 additional jobs).

George W. Bush retired the space shuttle program and Barack H. Obama canceled the Constellation program.

I concur with both decisions. We're not going back to the moon: Been there, done that. And, without that mission Constellation can't be justified.

Ethereal said:
… Obama has basically destroyed a pillar of American society …
Click to expand...

Really? I find it interesting that you lean Libertarian. What part of the following sentiment do you disagree?

“The market will drive where space vehicles are launched from. And if we believe in Florida that we have the birthright to spaceflight operations, we're going to be the Pittsburgh of the steel industry and the Detroit of the car industry.” — Mark Nappi, vice president of launch and recovery systems for United Space Alliance, NASA's prime contractor for shuttle operations¹​

Face it, there's no manned mission on the horizon that is uniquely assignable to N.A.S.A. A Libertarian, I would think, would say, “Good riddance.”

Ethereal said:
… Obama has basically destroyed … any hopes for continued advance in space exploration. …
Click to expand...

Nonsense. But, manned space exploration is on hiatus.

Ethereal said:
… And who fixes the Hubble when its broken?
Click to expand...

The next generation of space-based telescopes are already being prepared.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
So the government has this thing, you see, it's called the "Constitution". Maybe you've heard of it, maybe you haven't. Some people have heard of it, and not read it. Many people have read it and don't understand it.

But there are two relevant duties the Constitution imposes on the federal government.

One of those is national defense. That's not supposed to be subcontracted out. Maintaining US manned access to space is a national defense priority.
The other duty the federal government has is the construction of "post roads". Again, developing the road to the future means taking a turn past Canaveral to get to the moon. No moon equals no future.

The private developers have the resources to shoot a Romin' Candle to the top of the atmosphere, and watch it fall down. Cool, yes. Commericially viable, not. While the kiddies are playing with their bottle rockets the United States is confronted with very serious threats from China and Russia, not to mention other countries subsidizing their space launch infrastructure. The Shuttle's dying, and good riddance to a crappy design. Four of the last five presidents have had no excuse to delay the shuttle's replacement, but they all found excuses.

So, while the US government dithers, while it wastes $500 billion medicare fraud, and who knows how many billion on education fraud, and god alone knows how much on failed "stimulus" pork, the rest of the world is moving forward to secure the next and final high ground. Which will leave the US at a military and economic disadvantage.

The fact you need to face is that rich boys building toys simply do not have the resources to establish a free market presence in orbit, let alone the moon, which must be our national goal.
Click to expand...

National defense priority? In a pigs eye. It's just something to spend money on. We already have a national defense that was built on the space program. It is called nuclear missiles.

Kind of funny that you call yourself a Conservative, when you support unnecessary government spending like this. Read your Constitution again, and show me where it says that government spending like this is written into it. NOTE - I am half expecting you to mention the "general welfare" clause, like the Liberals do. :mrgreen:

Meanwhile, let those who get laid off from NASA find something in the private sector.
 
Last edited:
Chappy said:
George W. Bush retired the space shuttle program...
Click to expand...

Yes, it was being replaced with the Ares rocket.

...and Barack H. Obama canceled the Constellation program.
Click to expand...

He'd rather NASA concentrate on climate change...:roll:

I concur with both decisions. We're not going back to the moon: Been there, done that. And, without that mission Constellation can't be justified.
Click to expand...

We walked on the moon, so that must mean we've done everything worth doing in space. Good point.

Really? I find it interesting that you lean Libertarian. What part of the following sentiment do you disagree?

“The market will drive where space vehicles are launched from. And if we believe in Florida that we have the birthright to spaceflight operations, we're going to be the Pittsburgh of the steel industry and the Detroit of the car industry.” — Mark Nappi, vice president of launch and recovery systems for United Space Alliance, NASA's prime contractor for shuttle operations¹​
Click to expand...

The part about the market taking over space travel.

Face it, there's no manned mission on the horizon that is uniquely assignable to N.A.S.A. A Libertarian, I would think, would say, “Good riddance.”
Click to expand...

I totally agree. What private company wouldn't want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on something that isn't profitable?

Nonsense. But, manned space exploration is on hiatus.
Click to expand...

Allow me to rephrase: Obama has destroyed any hope for substantial advances in space exploration.

The next generation of space-based telescopes are already being prepared.
Click to expand...

Questions usually necessitate relevant answers. Let' try again...

Who repairs the Hubble telescope?
 
danarhea said:
National defense priority? In a pigs eye. It's just something to spend money on. We already have a national defense that was built on the space program. It is called nuclear missiles.

Kind of funny that you call yourself a Conservative, when you support unnecessary government spending like this. Read your Constitution again, and show me where it says that government spending like this is written into it. NOTE - I am half expecting you to mention the "general welfare" clause, like the Liberals do. :mrgreen:

Meanwhile, let those who get laid off from NASA find something in the private sector.
Click to expand...

Where does the Constitution limit the amount of defense spending the government may engage in?

Hint: It doesn't.
 
Ethereal said:
Where does the Constitution limit the amount of defense spending the government may engage in?

Hint: It doesn't.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. It doesn't limit other kinds of pork either. We trust Congress to keep the budget balanced, and not to throw away our tax dollars needlessly........ What do you mean it's not balanced? Some idiots we are. LOL.
 
To play devil's advocate, the technological development NASA has achieved has benefited America and the world as a whole tremendously. Necessity is the mother of invention, and space travel creates a lot of necessity! So many challenges have to be overcome, you can't help but discover things along the way.

I definitely do not consider space travel as a whole to be wasteful spending at all, but the shuttle program proved to be a misstep.
 
When I want something done, I go to who has the most experience especially when lives are at stake.

It has been said here that it will be better to let private companies take over space exploration.

What private company has more experience than NASA?

When that private company starts business, they will have to go through a lot of trial and error to get things right.

Nasa has a lot of time and know how under their belt.

I hope Obama funds NASA in the future to get back on track and not let the deaths of the shuttle astronauts be in vain
 
Chappy said:
I believe robotic space exploration is the way to go for the foreseeable future and the Hubble space telescope demonstrates that the people's imagination and support can be obtained by such.
Click to expand...

You mean the same Hubble Space Telescope that didn't work when launched and required...um, how to say this delicately...um...MEN in space to effect the necessary repairs to the robot?
 
danarhea said:
National defense priority? In a pigs eye. It's just something to spend money on. We already have a national defense that was built on the space program. It is called nuclear missiles.
Click to expand...

Yes, many people don't like the idea of national defense.

When the potential enemy is in the possession of missiles that can be launched undetetably, stealthed from radar detection, and can hit their target from the zenith at a seven-mile-per second approach speed, or faster, let us know how current technology defends against that, okay?

danarhea said:
Kind of funny that you call yourself a Conservative, when you support unnecessary government spending like this. Read your Constitution again, and show me where it says that government spending like this is written into it. NOTE - I am half expecting you to mention the "general welfare" clause, like the Liberals do. :mrgreen:

Meanwhile, let those who get laid off from NASA find something in the private sector.
Click to expand...

I don't call myself a conservative. I'm a libertarian. Libertarians recognize the need for a strong national defense, since libertarians recognize that freedom isn't preserved if the nation isn't preserved.

But you have to build your strawmen where you can beat on them, I suppose, if it makes you happy.

I already stated the manned space program is a national defense issue, and you've already rejected the idea of national defense.
 
Ethereal said:
… Who repairs the Hubble telescope?
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought I made this clear before.

Hubble won't be repaired because it will be replaced with the next generation of space-based telescopes which will be far more powerful than Hubble ever was.

Space exploration will continue but for the foreseeable future it will be robotic, not manned. Robots are far more capable, pound for pound, and far less vulnerable than human beings.

The space shuttle program confirmed two things we should have known before we started: sending people into space will always be expensive and it will always carry significant risks.
 
Chappy said:
Oh, I thought I made this clear before.

Hubble won't be repaired because it will be replaced with the next generation of space-based telescopes which will be far more powerful than Hubble ever was.

Space exploration will continue but for the foreseeable future it will be robotic, not manned. Robots are far more capable, pound for pound, and far less vulnerable than human beings.

The space shuttle program confirmed two things we should have known before we started: sending people into space will always be expensive and it will always carry significant risks.
Click to expand...

Since you decided to ignore the rest of my post, I'll just return the favor...
 
phattonez said:
First off, that's a terrible argument. National defense isn't an inherent good. At some point you have more defense than you need and in starts to cut into things that people really want unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

That's what the Persians, Trojans, Romans, Hittites, Athenians, Romans.......and British said.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
So, the Messiah's message of hope for the future, by actually destroying efforts to build that future, will destroy hope as well.

But it'll make the Chinese and Russians happy.
Click to expand...

So the government should be handing out and guaranteeing jobs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom