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Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outraged

Travelsonic

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The mother of a 13-year-old Montgomery County middle school student is demanding an apology from a teacher who had school police escort the youngster from a classroom for refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

The unidentified student was mocked by other children in her class and has been too traumatized to return to Roberto Clemente Middle School in Germantown, according to Ajmel Quereshi, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland who is representing the family.

LINK TO STORY
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Ajmel Quereshi?? You can't make this stuff up. The ACLU had to send someone from India to defend this child, in a time when Muslim stereotyping is an issue. Did Bob Jones have the day off or something? Whether this guy is Muslim or not is irrelevent, it's the appearance. The kid didn't do anything wrong, though in our day we'd have probably got the crap kicked out of us during recess. Anyway, the teacher should be fired, an apology isn't enough. I believe in the pledge, but damn this isn't the USSR. The police should charge the teacher with false arrest.
 
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Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Absolutely ridiculous act on the part of the teacher, completely in contrary with school policies.

Granted, I've never seen anyone personally sit for the pledge that wasn't doing it just casue they're a lazy **** or they think it was funny more so than because they were "Rebelling against america man!". Still, no one has to say the pledge in school. Its not required. And calling the cops on them is ridiculous.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I read this story yesterday in the Post.

I hope rivrrat comes into this thread because she's the first person who made me think, "Why do I do the pledge of allegience?" At this point, if asked to do it in a classroom setting, I wouldn't do it. I think it's stupid (which has nothing to do with my patriotism).
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Absolutely ridiculous act on the part of the teacher, completely in contrary with school policies.

Granted, I've never seen anyone personally sit for the pledge that wasn't doing it just casue they're a lazy **** or they think it was funny more so than because they were "Rebelling against america man!". Still, no one has to say the pledge in school. Its not required. And calling the cops on them is ridiculous.
Contrary to good old common sense. Damn, a police escort out of the room. You know most school police are real police officers? I wonder if he pulled his gun. ;)
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I read this story yesterday in the Post.

I hope rivrrat comes into this thread because she's the first person who made me think, "Why do I do the pledge of allegience?" At this point, if asked to do it in a classroom setting, I wouldn't do it. I think it's stupid (which has nothing to do with my patriotism).
Aww come on, you're being a party pooper.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Aww come on, you're being a party pooper.

What is the point of pledging? I said my marriage vows in October 1998. Do I need to say them on a regular basis to show my allegience to my husband?
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

What is the point of pledging? I said my marriage vows in October 1998. Do I need to say them on a regular basis to show my allegience to my husband?
Why yes, actually you do. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Interesting - I thought that, surely, in this day and age the students who stood to say the pledge would be taken away in cuffs.

I'm surprised to see it's the opposite but still think it's malarky.

Hello - they fired a lot of good teachers but idiots like this still are employed?
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I remember like yesterday, in elementary school, 6th grade, how Mike Harris, (from a Jehova Witness family,) sat out the pledge every morning.

Elsie Haltom, a hardcore southern baptist teacher of ours, made him go stand in the hall with his nose in the corner as the rest of the class said the pledge. That was something that was usually reserved for naughty boys and girls.

Then, afterwards, as he would come back into the classroom, it was to the jeers of Ms. Haltom as she frequently would harass him as he walked to his desk. "What kind of parents wouldn't allow their son to say the pledge?" "That's the devil in your church ruining your mind." "You should be ashamed of yourself."

Poor ol' Mike. He was just stuck in the middle. I went through 1 -6 grade with him. Nice kid. He coulda cared less about any church or any pledge.

I wish I could, as an adult, see that teacher again and tell her what a bitch she is. But she was an old bitch 40 years ago so I know she's got to be a dead bitch now.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

the child must have put up on hell of a fight if it required the school resource officer.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

What is the point of pledging? I said my marriage vows in October 1998. Do I need to say them on a regular basis to show my allegience to my husband?

You've never reavowed you're marriage vows in various ways over the years? From statements of love to your husband to times when you're together and you tell him you'll always be with him or always be faithful to him, or how no matter what happens you'll be there? While not a formal situation I highly doubt you've never ever essentially restated your vows and your affirmation to your devotion to your marriage.

This generally doesn't happen with your country as much. Saying you love your husband comes out far more often I'd wager than your country. You don't tend to have deep conversations stating your faithfulness to the country. In part, because while comparable, they also are strikingly different.

If you want to use the marriage vows things, the pledge is simply a more vocal and organized version of your likely often private reaffirmations of your vows with your husband.

More so, to me, its a cultural thing. Much like a fight song for your sports team, or wearing the colors of your college, or different tennets of a greek organization, things like the Pledge, the Flag, the red white & blue, are cultural trigger points that are commonly shared amongst all Americans.

In theory you could have a San Francisco living liberal gay black artist and a Boston based WASP stock broker and despite all their differences, they at the very least can share some commonality and some cultural connection through their similarities regarding the country. It doesn't always work in theory, especially as over the yeras its became far more "Cool" and a sign of "smart people" to be rebellious and not just critical but downright negative towards the country, but that's the theory behind such stuff.

Some will say its nationalism, or faux patriotism, and perhaps it is but I have little real care for that. Many of those same people are probably heading out come football season with a hat or a jersey for their team, or know their colleges fight song by heart, or some other group mentality thing that is there for the same reason....to bind people from various walks of life together through the sharing of a commonality.

While yes, I understand the Pledge is "new", so much as it isn't the exact same as its always been (the whole under god thing), its also not like we signed it into law in the past 8 years. Its something that for a great majority of Americans is part of life, is part of that ingrown culture. To me I've never understood people that won't do the pledge but will adhere completely to the national anthem, as I see them both as very similar in purpose to me.

I will say the pledge whenever I see its being done, or stand and remove my hat for the anthem, or properly dispose of a flag, or go up and greet and be respectful to the President if I've ever seen him because frankly, to me, this is a part of our culture, this is a part of our tradition, and I don't think I'm some kind of "smarter than the rest of the crowd" type by thumbing my nose at tradition.

I've never understood how people can get all pissy about tradition and "nationalism" type symbols here, but will buy into it anywhere else be it holiday traditions, school traditions, etc.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

It's just social conditioning; nationalism is silly.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Class our regularly scheduled course of study has been postponed today so that we may bring you the pertinent topic of civil disobedience in America today and historically.

Thank you'
Your Teacher.

:prof
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I remember like yesterday, in elementary school, 6th grade, how Mike Harris, (from a Jehova Witness family,) sat out the pledge every morning.

Elsie Haltom, a hardcore southern baptist teacher of ours, made him go stand in the hall with his nose in the corner as the rest of the class said the pledge. That was something that was usually reserved for naughty boys and girls.

Then, afterwards, as he would come back into the classroom, it was to the jeers of Ms. Haltom as she frequently would harass him as he walked to his desk. "What kind of parents wouldn't allow their son to say the pledge?" "That's the devil in your church ruining your mind." "You should be ashamed of yourself."

Poor ol' Mike. He was just stuck in the middle. I went through 1 -6 grade with him. Nice kid. He coulda cared less about any church or any pledge.

I wish I could, as an adult, see that teacher again and tell her what a bitch she is. But she was an old bitch 40 years ago so I know she's got to be a dead bitch now.
I remember when my whole first grade class got paddled for something. :lol:
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

You've never reavowed you're marriage vows in various ways over the years? From statements of love to your husband to times when you're together and you tell him you'll always be with him or always be faithful to him, or how no matter what happens you'll be there? While not a formal situation I highly doubt you've never ever essentially restated your vows and your affirmation to your devotion to your marriage.

This generally doesn't happen with your country as much. Saying you love your husband comes out far more often I'd wager than your country. You don't tend to have deep conversations stating your faithfulness to the country. In part, because while comparable, they also are strikingly different.


I will say the pledge whenever I see its being done, or stand and remove my hat for the anthem, or properly dispose of a flag, or go up and greet and be respectful to the President if I've ever seen him because frankly, to me, this is a part of our culture, this is a part of our tradition, and I don't think I'm some kind of "smarter than the rest of the crowd" type by thumbing my nose at tradition.

I've never understood how people can get all pissy about tradition and "nationalism" type symbols here, but will buy into it anywhere else be it holiday traditions, school traditions, etc.

Surely the point isn't about people objecting to pledging allegiance but to it being compulsory.

You say that people don't informally renew their devotion to country much. As a non-US citizen it appears to me, if this forum is anything to go by, that people do it all the time. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

You can't win any argument by calling on tradition. Tradition is morally neutral; there are good and bad traditions and traditons of both kinds survive.

Freedom of speech is not just a tradition in the US, it's a glorious, praise-worthy fundament of your society. Does freedom of speech dictate that you have the freedom NOT to speak something you don't wish to as well?
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I remember when my whole first grade class got paddled for something. :lol:

I'm sure that gave the teacher a great deal of pleasure.:roll:
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I'm sure that gave the teacher a great deal of pleasure.:roll:
I wouldn't know.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I remember like yesterday, in elementary school, 6th grade, how Mike Harris, (from a Jehova Witness family,) sat out the pledge every morning.

Elsie Haltom, a hardcore southern baptist teacher of ours, made him go stand in the hall with his nose in the corner as the rest of the class said the pledge. That was something that was usually reserved for naughty boys and girls.

Then, afterwards, as he would come back into the classroom, it was to the jeers of Ms. Haltom as she frequently would harass him as he walked to his desk. "What kind of parents wouldn't allow their son to say the pledge?" "That's the devil in your church ruining your mind." "You should be ashamed of yourself."

Poor ol' Mike. He was just stuck in the middle. I went through 1 -6 grade with him. Nice kid. He coulda cared less about any church or any pledge.

I wish I could, as an adult, see that teacher again and tell her what a bitch she is. But she was an old bitch 40 years ago so I know she's got to be a dead bitch now.

My guy was Bob Kramer, a Jehovah Witness. He sat quietly while the rest of us said the pledge. No one ever showed him any disrespect and the teacher informed the rest of us why, that it was against his religious beliefs. He was a good kid and the smartest in the class. That was 1963. I miss those times.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I never understood the act of pledging. I mean, whats the point anyway?

BTW that is a legitimate question. Is it to do with having a large first generation immigrant population?
And if so, whats the point of repeating the pledge again and again.......:confused:
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra


I think if someone wants to be an anti-American/unpatriotic then that is there choice, they should not be escorted/kicked out of class for it.
 
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Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Surely the point isn't about people objecting to pledging allegiance but to it being compulsory.

If you'll have read my first post in this thread, you'll see that I think the teachers actions are abhorrent and people should definitely be free not to say the pledge. I'm not arguing for compulsory in the previous post you quoted. What I am arguing is that by some notion it is wrong or 100% unneeded to CHOOSE to say the pledge.

You say that people don't informally renew their devotion to country much. As a non-US citizen it appears to me, if this forum is anything to go by, that people do it all the time. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

In general you're getting a very skewed segment of the population by looking at a political forum. In general matters of the nation, national pride, and other such things jump to the forefront during political issues. Not to mention it is a political tool that BOTH sides used so often you see relatively hollow gestures of it from either side coming out here. This would be akin to going to a secessionist movement website or a radical environmentalist website and seeing severe criticisms and hatred for the country and many of its policies. Or, for a non-political thing, you’d assume that many people in the country care about Anime if you spent a lot of time on a roleplaying website, because there’s a lot of crossover into the fandom and thus you see it a lot there despite it not really being true in the general population.

That’s not to say people don’t renew their devotion to their country at all. But if you’re going to compare it to a relationship and your wedding vows as aps did its not really on par unless you’re just a marriage that rarely gets emotional. I’m not married yet but I can’t think of a week (and at times a day) where I haven’t expressed through words my love for my girlfriend in some way, either by flat out saying it, calling her love, or something of the sort. This to me is the reaffirmation of your commitment, your vows, your devotion to them. We don’t normally say “we love this country” on a weekly basis.

Mind you, I’m not saying we SHOULD, I’m just saying that there’s a lot of issues with comparing the two.

You can't win any argument by calling on tradition. Tradition is morally neutral; there are good and bad traditions and traditons of both kinds survive.

You can’t win arguments based solely on tradition, but you also can’t completely remove traditions from culture. Now, you can argue that the culture in particular is BAD, but that’s a different argument. I was simply making the case for WHY the traditions of the pledge, the flag, the national anthem, etc are useful not just for this country but for all companies by comparing it to other groupings that use the same theory….that traditions performed by groups of people who have nothing else alike can give a sense of belonging and community as it provides upon them common ground.

Freedom of speech is not just a tradition in the US, it's a glorious, praise-worthy fundament of your society. Does freedom of speech dictate that you have the freedom NOT to speak something you don't wish to as well?

Absolutely not, which is not what I was arguing. Again, read my first post in this thread. My argument in the second post was more in line with the sentiment present here and elsewhere (more so that for the latter):

1) That it was like a wedding vow
2) That it is somehow bad or ignorant or childish to participate in such things, or that someone is more enlightened or better for NOT participating

Do the people who rail against the stating of the Pledge or the National Anthem because its mindless nationalism also rail against, say, Tennesse fans who sing and know every word to “Rocky Top” because its mindlessly endorsing a school whose over time taken land from people to build up its over abundance of buildings, cut numerous good employees so their university president could have a higher pay check, and had a history of discrimination in its hiring and acceptance policies (not saying those are true, just making this a hypothetical).

To me, they’re both serving in general the same purpose. They give a community a connection, a bond, a sense of kinship because despite all your differences you know that you’ve both have that in common and that, if at no other point, during that moment you all are the same despite all your differences.

Some people think such a notion makes people “sheeple”, it a bad thing, is something to be condemned. Personally, I find most people that expunge that are pseudo-intellectuals that like to believe they’re smarter than everyone else and other notions of the similar sort. Personally, I think a bit of community identification and culture through shared experiences can actually be a powerful thing, and that while yes it can be used for the wrong reasons, at its core I believe it’s a beneficial and powerful action that is used in everything from something as large as our Country to as simple as a few kids club in their backyard that has a super special secret handshake.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I think if someone wants to be an anti-American/unpatriotic then that is there choice, they should not be escorted/kicked out of class for it.

Some people put their religion above everything else. It has nothing to do with patriotism or love of country.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

I never understood the act of pledging. I mean, whats the point anyway?

BTW that is a legitimate question. Is it to do with having a large first generation immigrant population?
And if so, whats the point of repeating the pledge again and again.......:confused:
The purpose is to instill a sense of loyalty to American values and the country.
 
Re: Child escorted out of class by police for sitting during the pledge, mother outra

Some people put their religion above everything else. It has nothing to do with patriotism or love of country.

I think many people just use their religion as a shield especially during times of war to weasel out of military service just like some of the jews in Israel do. So I think these people are just using their religion to be anti-American/unpatriotic.
 
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