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2 Generals Wary About Repealing Gay Policy

Lightdemon said:
What I would like is to have him answer the question. I don't have a problem with what words he chooses to associate with gay people. It's just a little funny to me because of the widely recognized internet phrase used to make fun of people who have issues with "the ghey."

Maybe you'd like to answer the question? ;)
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I don't know what you're talking about, but sounds like you're trolling for answers.
 
ptif219 said:
If gays have to talk about this how do we trust them with military secrets.

Notice my previous posts on the discipline. It is not an 8 hour a day job.

Besides your job you have to stay in shape. Keep your appearance right .You have to keep up with changing procedures. You have to study for promotion tests.

If they cannot follow the orders of DADT what other orders will they disobey. Will they have the discipline to do what is expected of them 24/7?
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope"]Slippery Slope[/ame].
 
This thread has taken a surreal turn. Gays should not be in the military cuz they are dishonest, corrupt people. And they are scarey too and might god forbid find you attractive...
 
American said:
I don't know what you're talking about, but sounds like you're trolling for answers.
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I'm the troll? I asked you to answer a question I posed relating to the topic at hand, and you keep making posts about me. Riiight, I'm the troll here. :roll:

And I take it as a no, you won't answer the question.
 
ptif219 said:
If gays have to talk about this how do we trust them with military secrets.

Notice my previous posts on the discipline. It is not an 8 hour a day job.

Besides your job you have to stay in shape. Keep your appearance right .You have to keep up with changing procedures. You have to study for promotion tests.

If they cannot follow the orders of DADT what other orders will they disobey. Will they have the discipline to do what is expected of them 24/7?
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If they cannot live with unequal rights how can they be like the rest of us?

Gays cant stay in shape?
Gays cant keep up with changing procedures (oh wait, those are the phobes)
Gays cant study for promotions test?
Cant trust gays with military secrets so I guess all those gays serving in the government have to go too.
Gays cant have discipline either. Yet their already serving and doing everything you say they cant.
Great gawd.
 
ptif219 said:
I notice you dodge my points. People who have served understand what I am talking about.
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Your points are based on the slippery slope fallacy. I don't need to dodge fallacies, they practically destroy their own points.
 
Lightdemon said:
Instead of asking what benefit of repealing DADT would be, perhaps the question would be why DADT was implemented in the first place? What exactly is the benefit of keeping it?

Wrong what is important is would it benefit the military? Would it benefit national security?Does ones sexual orientation become more improtant than the job of the military and national security?

...because gays just disobey orders because they're gay? Are they naturally like that?
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They are disobeying DADT which they knew about when they signed the contract to be come part of the US Military.

Will they disobey other orders that they don't agree with? I for one do not think we should take that chance.
 
ptif219 said:
People who have served understand what I am talking about.
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Wrong, people like you understand what you're talking about. There may happen to be many of them in the army. In which case they should scram and make space for the gay soldiers who probably have better moralistic reasoning...

Seriously.... if you hate gays... how do we know you don't hate muslims, and might shoot a muslim baby, or rape a muslim woman? Thats always a risk with straight people. At least gay men don't rape women.
 
ptif219 said:
They are disobeying DADT which they knew about when they signed the contract to be come part of the US Military.

Will they disobey other orders that they don't agree with? I for one do not think we should take that chance.
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So like I said earlier, if DADT was repealed, they wouldn't be disobeying an order. What seems to be the problem here? Why are you clinging onto DADT? I don't understand why you want to the military to keep this policy.
 
ptif219 said:
They are disobeying DADT which they knew about when they signed the contract to be come part of the US Military.

Will they disobey other orders that they don't agree with? I for one do not think we should take that chance.
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Weakest argument evar. They wont have to disobey it if its not in effect, as of yet, they obey it just fine as there are countless already serving.
 
ptif219 said:
It appears you don't want to address what a soldier must do. People who have been in the military know the importance of discipline and obeying orders.
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What I don't feel like addressing is the slippery sloped you offered as your argument to keep DADT. You think the gays will just disobey orders simply because they're gay. If that's your point, then it doesn't need addressing. You've already exposed your weak argument, you've done my work for me already.
 
SE102 said:
If they cannot live with unequal rights how can they be like the rest of us?

Gays cant stay in shape?
Gays cant keep up with changing procedures (oh wait, those are the phobes)
Gays cant study for promotions test?
Cant trust gays with military secrets so I guess all those gays serving in the government have to go too.
Gays cant have discipline either. Yet their already serving and doing everything you say they cant.
Great gawd.
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Nice spin and taking it out of context. Most gays do because they put orders of DADT above personal feelings. To be a soldier you must be committed to the unit beyond all else.

If you can not obey DADT what else will you disobey. The lives of your whole unit depend on you following orders and having the discipline to carry out the orders.
 
Lightdemon said:
Your points are based on the slippery slope fallacy. I don't need to dodge fallacies, they practically destroy their own points.
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My points are based on military life and knowing first hand what it means to be a soldier.

It can not be taken lightly, to many depend on you.
 
ptif219 said:
My points are based on military life and knowing first hand what it means to be a soldier.

It can not be taken lightly, to many depend on you.
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Does your experience say that once a soldier disobeys an order, that is conclusive evidence that they will forever always disobey orders and cannot be trusted? Not only that soldier, but everyone else who is similar to that soldier? If a black guy disobeys and order, is that conclusive evidence that all black folks will disobey orders? I hope you realize how weak your argument is...

Not to mention the fact that DADT doesn't really serve any benefit to the military, other than keeping gay folks out the military. Why shouldn't gay folks be in the military in the first place? Why should we keep DADT?
 
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SE102 said:
Wrong, people like you understand what you're talking about. There may happen to be many of them in the army. In which case they should scram and make space for the gay soldiers who probably have better moralistic reasoning...

Seriously.... if you hate gays... how do we know you don't hate muslims, and might shoot a muslim baby, or rape a muslim woman? Thats always a risk with straight people. At least gay men don't rape women.
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It is not about hating gays. It is about people who sign a contract then disobeying the orders of the contract.

People depend on them obeying orders. If they can not obey DADT then they can not be trusted to follow other orders that the lives of others in their unit may depend on.
 
Lightdemon said:
So like I said earlier, if DADT was repealed, they wouldn't be disobeying an order. What seems to be the problem here? Why are you clinging onto DADT? I don't understand why you want to the military to keep this policy.
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Nice spin to avoid all my questions and points.
 
Lightdemon said:
Does your experience say that once a soldier disobeys an order, that is conclusive evidence that they will forever always disobey orders and cannot be trusted?

Not to mention the fact that DADT doesn't really serve any benefit to the military, other than keeping gay folks out the military. Why shouldn't gay folks be in the military in the first place? Why should we keep DADT?
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This is the problem when you're a johnny come lately into a thread. We were long past this talking about how the policy change would be accommodated. But if you weren't so arrogant you might have read the thread and known that. So why don't you back and answer your own questions yourself? ;) Then come back here and discuss this with the grownups.
 
ptif219 said:
Nice spin and taking it out of context. Most gays do because they put orders of DADT above personal feelings. To be a soldier you must be committed to the unit beyond all else.

If you can not obey DADT what else will you disobey. The lives of your whole unit depend on you following orders and having the discipline to carry out the orders.
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Yes, I'm sure everyone is in mortal peril the whole time and any unit cohesion will be destroyed by homosexual officers living together on military bases. This isn't about foxhole confessions of homosexuality... this is about equal rights. Essentially your saying they must all obey DADT because of homophobes like you who are so disgusted they wouldn't be able to work with them. Thats all you really seem to be implying here. I'm sure all the other soldiers think just like you and would just 'fall apart' if they knew there was a homo in their midst. Except I met a flamer who acclimated just fine and only encountered 1 or 2 homophobes out of 40 men in the platoon while being out processed. They were a problem, because I knew of 2 other homosexuals in the platoon that were not out. Average would probably be 4.
 
SE102 said:
Weakest argument evar. They wont have to disobey it if its not in effect, as of yet, they obey it just fine as there are countless already serving.
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It is not weak if you have been in the military and know how much each man depends on his fellow soldiers in his unit.
 
Because you cannot depend on a soldier when you know he is a homosexual?
 
Lightdemon said:
What I don't feel like addressing is the slippery sloped you offered as your argument to keep DADT. You think the gays will just disobey orders simply because they're gay. If that's your point, then it doesn't need addressing. You've already exposed your weak argument, you've done my work for me already.
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Not a slippery slope that is your cop out to not address the point I put forth. People that have served know what I am talking about.
 
ptif219 said:
Nice spin to avoid all my questions and points.
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What spin? Your concern was gay people not following orders...that was YOUR point.

If DADT was repealed, you'll have no problems because there wont be any orders to be disobeyed, right? I don't understand, why do you want to keep DADT?
 
ptif219 said:
Not a slippery slope that is your cop out to not address the point I put forth. People that have served know what I am talking about.
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Yes it is a slippery slope. And I'll tell you what a cop out is - saying, "People that have served know what I am talking about" as if it proves your point or something. That is a cop out.

What is the problem with gays being in the military?
 
Lightdemon said:
Does your experience say that once a soldier disobeys an order, that is conclusive evidence that they will forever always disobey orders and cannot be trusted? Not only that soldier, but everyone else who is similar to that soldier? If a black guy disobeys and order, is that conclusive evidence that all black folks will disobey orders? I hope you realize how weak your argument is...

Not to mention the fact that DADT doesn't really serve any benefit to the military, other than keeping gay folks out the military. Why shouldn't gay folks be in the military in the first place? Why should we keep DADT?
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When a persons lies to you do you trust them not to lie again?

You still refuse answer how repealing it would benefit the military.

Your point means nothing since DADT is in place
 
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