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Navy will soon let women serve on subs

In the perfect world it wouldn't and shouldn't matter. I have no opinion to offer on the ideology of whether women should or should not serve on a sub. You guys hammer that out. Lemme know what you come up with. :roll:

I will just speak of what I DO know, first hand, face-to-face, in da mix, experience of having served on several Naval stations amongst men and women sailors.

There is soooo much drama. So many games. There are so many "situations". Distractions up the wazoo. Can't be avoided, I suppose. (It sure beats having to spend the weekend with a buncha guys though.)

If I was to have to work in a 24/7, do or die, environment, such as a sub, as much as I would love the ladies, the distractions I have witnessed could, and most likely would, cost lives and material.

Chicks and dicks on a sub? NOT a good idea. Just sayin'.
 
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Oh, yeah?

On the Los Angeles Class:

Engine Room Lower Level, outboard each Main Condenser. No one goes back there for hours.

Engine Room Lower Level SSTG Lube Oil Bay Mezzanine. Quite Secluded.

Engine Room Aft, just forward of the ERFW pumps, cozy. Better yet, there are two access ports to the Main Engine support structure that's just great for a nap or snuggle.

Engine Room Aft, outboard the #3 and #4 R114 AC units. Good for a quicky.

Engine Room Upper Level. Nucleonics Lab. Has a door that locks.

Engine Room Upper Level. Behind the Nucleonics Labs, around the 10k Evaporator. Some quiet places, wink wink.

Engine Room Upper Level, Charging Water Storage Tank Mezzine. Nice and warm up by MS1 and MS2, and the humidity will excuse the sweaty appearance.

Engine Room Upper Level, outboard the main electrical switch gear.

Engine Room Middle Level Forward, Outboard the #2 SSTG.

Forward Compartment spaces.

Each officer has a bunk. The captain and the XO have their own staterooms.

The Fan Room deck is covered with neatly flaked out mooring lines. A padded floor, and noisy enough to cover the orgasmic moans.

Most crew have their own bunk.

The food storage room at the bottom of the Forward Escape Trunk.

The supply shack.

The torpedo room is usually quiet.

The Auxilliary Machinery Room is ideal for women who get off on CO2 Scrubbers and electrolysis machines, and especially women who like getting banged standing against a Faribanks-Morse Diesel.

The Battery Compartment for the enterprising electrician.

The radio room.

The Sonar Room.

There's LOTS of places to play hide the submarine on a submarine.

I don't thank Scarecrow often, but every so often he says something really great, and this is just such a post. Accurate and amusing in one nice package.

By the way, as any one who has served on a carrier will tell you, with 6000 people, there are very few places without heavy traffic.
 
I refuse to answer this question because it's just too god damned funny.
...or because your answer would be a misogynistic one.

What if the moon was made out of cheddar cheese, would that cause an economic crash in Wisconsin?
If your analogy is an accurate one (read: no woman would qualify anyway), why are you objecting so vehemently to the idea of allowing them to apply in the first place?

You also didn't answer my question.

The reason is they don't fit. A submarine isn't a hunk of steel, it's a community of peers. Women don't belong in the military at the combat level, and a submarine is a combat warship.
Now this has verged into misogyny. Again - on what basis do you make this blanket generalisation?
 
Right cause no one is ever in the radio or sonar rooms. And where's the rest of the crew when you made this list? Is this sub you're talking about in a museum or something? And since when do most crewmen have their own bunks? And I know for a fact many torpedo crews sleep in the torpedo room because its one of the most spacious areas of the boat.
 
I have seen women Aviation Ordnancemen load 500 pound bombs, 3 women, one on each end with a length of pipe screwed in, 1 in the middle guiding it.

When you are at General Quarters and your GQ station is to man a P250 or P500 pump on a damage control team you have to carry it down into a compartment to fight a fire there is no one to help you..its your job.....I know because my first GQ station was to man a P250 pump on the destroyer I was on.......

Big difference Redress......

Another problem as someone mentioned would be handling gas bottles...I don't know how many they have on a sub but on a destroyer they have a store room full and they all have to be loaded and stowed manually and those babies are heavy as hell....Not easy work for a big strong man let alone a 100 pound woman when the bottles weigh twice as much as she does.........
 
I know I had no problem finding a cubby hole, to get my freak on, when I was in the Navy. Ahhh, the memories. :mrgreen:
 
The reason is they don't fit. A submarine isn't a hunk of steel, it's a community of peers. Women don't belong in the military at the combat level, and a submarine is a combat warship.

Women having been serving in combat in the US military for decades, in the Army some of my best peers are women, some of the best combat leaders are women. You know why? Because it doesn't matter. The IDF has been using women in combat forever, ask Tashah for crying out there. If we didn't allow women to serve in the combat roles they do now in the Army do you have any idea how severely understaffed we'd be?
 
No.

It's a submarine. When they're run by men, bad things don't happen. Letting boys and women get involved, and bad things will.



Yes, women don't have the structure to man-handle TDU weights.

That's why it's called "man"-handle.

The Left persists in this myth that there's nothing a man can do that a woman can't. Well, I'm sure the Left hasn't noticed, but men and women are different.
Damnit Scarecrow!

You missed my point.

The post I responded to described having to manhandle heavy objects down through vertical hatches, which in one anecdotal case presented by said post caused the crushing of a man's shoulder.

THAT is why I proposed that improvements to the way cargo is loaded into subs should be made. And I am almost sure any sub crew member who has had to transfer stuff in that way would agree with me.

As to structural issues, I was referring to the structure of the sub, and requirements laid down by physics for it to survive under high pressure.

Those requirements may put limits on the possibilities for improvements such as I mentioned.

Ignoring any issues of who gets to serve on a sub, improvements in crew safety, cargo loading, and the like can't be a bad thing.
 
There is a difference, but it all it means is that more men are likely to qualify for the job. That isn't a reason to deny a well-qualified (mentally and physically) woman, though.

On what grounds?

If every one of them was physically fit enough (you can call them 'amazons' if you really like), and was competant in what they did, would you still object to them crewing a sub?

I'm not suggesting we go out conscripting women. I'm suggesting that I see no reason why we should deny those who both want to do the job and would do the job well, purely because they were born with the wrong set of organs.


But they are not all the same and you must know that................What do you do with the 100 lb woman that wants to serve on a sub>?????? dicriminate against them??????
 
What if the moon was made out of cheddar cheese, would that cause an economic crash in Wisconsin?
Only if it were economical to transport it back from said moon.

As of now, it isn't.
 
...or because your answer would be a misogynistic one.

I see nothing misogynist in the statement that the US Army does not have the facilities to train people for submarine duty.

Can anyone else point out the misogynist part in that statement?

iangb doesn't seen to be reading it carefully enough.
 
But they are not all the same and you must know that................What do you do with the 100 lb woman that wants to serve on a sub>?????? dicriminate against them??????

Ya the same why you discriminate, you spelled it wrong, against the 100 pound man. Or the man who can't do the job, or the woman who can't do the job.

NEWSFLASH: The military discriminates people on the grounds of physical fitness, maybe this is news to you but its going on for a while now Im pretty sure. Arguing that we suddenly cannot do it or that allow women on subs will change that policy, is just making up issues that don't exist.
 
I see nothing misogynist in the statement that the US Army does not have the facilities to train people for submarine duty.

Can anyone else point out the misogynist part in that statement?

iangb doesn't seen to be reading it carefully enough.

:lol:

That is all.
 
Navy Pride said:
But they are not all the same and you must know that................What do you do with the 100 lb woman that wants to serve on a sub>?????? dicriminate against them??????
What do you do with the 100 lb men who want to serve on a sub?

Not allowing someone to do something on the grounds that they would be rubbish is not unfair discrimination. Preventing someone who would do a good job on the grounds that they are the wrong gender is.

Scarecrow said:
I see nothing misogynist in the statement that the US Army does not have the facilities to train people for submarine duty.

Can anyone else point out the misogynist part in that statement?

iangb doesn't seen to be reading it carefully enough.
You didn't say 'people', you said 'women'. Big difference.

Mind you, it's true that an equally big difference is saying 'army' not 'navy' :3oops:. Consider the question repeated with that ammendum.
 
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Subs have P250 and P500 submersible pumps on them......they weigh about 150 lbs each.......A lot of guys can't carry them.......The only women who can would be amazons.....
No, they wouldn't need to be amazons. They would simply need to be strong enough, just like a man would be. Essentially, it's like this: They should only have PEOPLE on the sub physically capable of performing the necessary tasks. Gender is irrelevant.

I've got 50 rounds of 155 MM HE that I need you to move from the ammo carrier to the Gun.

Hope you are a strong girl.
I am.

My wife told me abotu the "alpha female" syndrome, where a strong female leader in a group can have an effect on other females in the group. I.E. they all PMS on HER scheduale. Now I have no clue if this is actually true, but do you REALLY want to chance a submarine where 5 days a month the women are in total bitch mode?
Easy fix with birth control

There are a lot of situations aboard a sub that takes physical strength....Most women don't have it...
Many men don't either. Your point is?

Oh wait... your point is that maybe the PEOPLE on the sub should be physically capable of performing the necessary tasks? I agree. What does this have to do with gender, though?


How much help is the lady Machinist's Mate going to need to do her job as the ships Air Conditioning technician?
No more than any man who is equipped to do it. Just have to hire a PERSON physically capable of performing the task.

But people don't get that. It has become wrong to say that a women are not as strong as men. And that women can do the same as a man, they can't and that is considered offensive. Sometimes its the best thing to let men take care of thing like working in a sub. Gosh it boggles my mind:doh
Not all women are as strong as some men. Not all men are as strong as some men. Not all women are as weak as other women. blah blah blah

Some women CAN do the same as SOME men do. The only offensive thing in your statements is the sheer ignorance about the capabilities of the female form.


No.

It's a submarine. When they're run by men, bad things don't happen. Letting boys and women get involved, and bad things will.

Yes, women don't have the structure to man-handle TDU weights.

That's why it's called "man"-handle.

The Left persists in this myth that there's nothing a man can do that a woman can't. Well, I'm sure the Left hasn't noticed, but men and women are different.
Yes, men and women are different! SHOCKER!

And, some women can physically perform at the same level as some men.

But they are not all the same and you must know that................What do you do with the 100 lb woman that wants to serve on a sub>?????? dicriminate against them??????
Umm.. yes. Would you let a 100 lb man on board who couldn't do the job? Why would you let a woman onboard who couldn't do the job? That would just be retarded.
 
Women on a submarine worked for Tony Curtis.
Tony-Diana-Fishing.jpg



For example . . .
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ttd48u0J0&NR=1"]YouTube- Operation Petticoat Preview[/ame]

[Trivia Fact: Tony's daughter Jamie appeared in the TV version of Operation Petticoat.]
 
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Right cause no one is ever in the radio or sonar rooms. And where's the rest of the crew when you made this list?

Let's see.....0215 Engine Room Lower Level. This watch station is huge, encompassing the SSTG LO Bay, the Condensate Bay, the PLO Bay, the MSW Bay, the ASW Bay, and all of Engine Room Middle Level Aft, almost half the engine room.

The hourly logs have been taken....that takes three minutes. The #2 LOP was shut down, cleaned, and put to work on the Starboard SSTG LO Sump. The PLO Strainer got it's daily cleaning at 0030, the Port SSTG LO Strainer was cleaned at 0120, the Starboard SSTG LO Strainer was cleaned at 0140. It took 30 seconds to shift from #1 and #2 Condensate Pumps to #3 and #4, which was done at 0010. It took five minutes to shift from #1 and #2 R114 AC units to #3 and #4, which was done at 0024. The ship is currently cruining at PD off the coast of China on routine patrol, no manuvers are expected this midwatch.

There is NOTHING left to do for the next four hours but take those hourly logs. Fifty seven minutes of each of the next four hours will be spent trying to find something interesting to do, and failing. This is when the ERLL watch pulls his spinal tap syringe from his pocket (the ELT's use them for boiler water oxygen sampling) and he climbs up to be under the Main Engine aft journal bearing, because he knows the Engine Room Upper Level watch has to put his face right THERE to read that thermometer. So you squirt him. He'll try to squirt you when you're reading the ERFW pump outlet thermometer.

It's not only distinctly possible to see the Engine Room Supervisor, the Engineering Watch Supervisor, and the Auxiliary Electrician Aft before they see you, but fairly easy to move around the watch station to hide from them, a game most ERLL watches play. But this time, when the Engine Room Supervisor comes down, the Lower Level watch and he get together. The EWS is supervising the Engineering Laboratory Techician's reactor sample, and that pins the EOOW in the Manuvering Room for nearly half an hour. The AE aft is cool, he has a thing with the cook that he doesn't want to mess up. So there's no problem sneaking back behind the condensers for a little fun.

THAT's how it will work on a submarine.

Is this sub you're talking about in a museum or something? And since when do most crewmen have their own bunks? And I know for a fact many torpedo crews sleep in the torpedo room because its one of the most spacious areas of the boat.

Glad to see a non-qual has some "facts".

I got my dolphins a long time ago, I don't need someone who hasn't lived the life to tell me "facts".
 
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No, they wouldn't need to be amazons. They would simply need to be strong enough, just like a man would be. Essentially, it's like this: They should only have PEOPLE on the sub physically capable of performing the necessary tasks. Gender is irrelevant.


I am.


Easy fix with birth control


Many men don't either. Your point is?

Oh wait... your point is that maybe the PEOPLE on the sub should be physically capable of performing the necessary tasks? I agree. What does this have to do with gender, though?



No more than any man who is equipped to do it. Just have to hire a PERSON physically capable of performing the task.


Not all women are as strong as some men. Not all men are as strong as some men. Not all women are as weak as other women. blah blah blah

Some women CAN do the same as SOME men do. The only offensive thing in your statements is the sheer ignorance about the capabilities of the female form.



Yes, men and women are different! SHOCKER!

And, some women can physically perform at the same level as some men.


Umm.. yes. Would you let a 100 lb man on board who couldn't do the job? Why would you let a woman onboard who couldn't do the job? That would just be retarded.

1. and if you had and all female sub? There are very few women who could lift one of those pumps....

You crack me up......Before you get all defensive......It does not make a rats ass whether women serve on subs or not.............I am just telling you from what I know about it though my experience it would be hard as hell to accomplish....Now go take your attitude to your room........
 
You didn't say 'people', you said 'women'. Big difference.

So, you think the most important word I used was people when I say the US Army doesn't have the facilities to train people for submarine duty?

Mind you, it's true that an equally big difference is saying 'army' not 'navy' :3oops:. Consider the question repeated with that ammendum.

Yes, the Army does not have the facilities to train people for submarine duty.

Glad to see you figured that out.

Now, if your understanding of submarines is so shallow (Dolphin-wearing pun intended) that you missed that error, you should stop expressing your uninformed opinions on this matter and listen politely.
 
What do you do with the 100 lb men who want to serve on a sub?
Not allowing someone to do something on the grounds that they would be rubbish is not unfair discrimination. Preventing someone who would do a good job on the grounds that they are the wrong gender is.


You didn't say 'people', you said 'women'. Big difference.

Mind you, it's true that an equally big difference is saying 'army' not 'navy' :3oops:. Consider the question repeated with that ammendum.



I think 100 pound men are the exception rather then the rule in fact not sure I ever saw any 100 pound man aboard a surface ship......-The Navy has regulations on weight and height for both men and women and besides 100 pound men have a different muscle break down then 100 pound women.......

Here is a flash maybe you did not know, men are generally stronger then women......:doh:shock:
 
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So...what happens when people become pregnant? I'm not sure you can just pull the sub over and let people off.
 
So...what happens when people become pregnant? I'm not sure you can just pull the sub over and let people off.
They probably have doctors on boards just in case someone injures himself,surely they can add baby doctor,midwife training,pediatrician and so on.:lol:
 
Not all women are as strong as some men. Not all men are as strong as some men. Not all women are as weak as other women. blah blah blah

Some women CAN do the same as SOME men do. The only offensive thing in your statements is the sheer ignorance about the capabilities of the female form.

I knew a women was going to be fairly aggressive at the stated truth. Do you understand that a women is not as capable as a man because men produce more testosterone. That helps out a great deal for adapting to carrying large weights on a regular basis and getting accustomed. The average adult male produces 40 to 60x's more testosterone than a women. And just so you know I don't hate women or disapprove of them serving in the armed forces. I just have a firm believe that some areas belong to men only. And testosterone production is one of those things that helps back me up on why a sub should be a men's only area unless the female volunteers for a position in the sub that isn't as hard to work in. Also, the female form is not the problem it's biological. Which you won't get.
 
Scarecrow said:
Now, if your understanding of submarines is so shallow (Dolphin-wearing pun intended) that you missed that error, you should stop expressing your uninformed opinions on this matter and listen politely.
If all you're going to do is avoid answering questions, there isn't going to be that much to listen to.

I'm fine where I am. Are you confident enough in your understanding to answer my questions?

NavyPride said:
Here is a flash maybe you did not know, men are generally stronger then women......
You said that before, or at least words to that effect. My response now is the same as it was then - so what? Judge each individual equally, regardless of gender - you will get less women than men, but you will not be discriminating unfairly. At the moment, you are.

Edit: ditto @Gray Fox
 
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