Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey

[Infinite Chaos]

A majority of women believe some rape victims should take responsibility for what happened, a survey suggests.

Almost three quarters of the women who believed this said if a victim got into bed with the assailant before an attack they should accept some responsibility.

One-third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker's house for a drink.

The survey of more than 1,000 people in London marked the 10th anniversary of the Haven service for rape victims.

More than half of those of both sexes questioned said there were some circumstances when a rape victim should accept responsibility for an attack.

Link

I seem to remember a time when the mere fact a woman said "no" (and meant "NO") defined the boundaries - whatever the point in time in any sexual liasion. The man going beyond without permission was then commiting rape.

This latest survey seems to take backward steps for women and rape victims when it is widely acknowledged that prosections for rape in the UK have a poor record.

 

[iangb]

I was just talking about this with a friend.

My guess, as poorly-thought-out as it is, would be that some women put blame partially on the victim because it's preferable for them to think that all a woman has to do to avoid being raped is to avoid making the mistakes/choices that the victim has made. To accept that the victim is just unlucky is to accept that they could be equally as unlucky, which is a scary prospect for anyone.

It's easier to think "She acted stupid, I wouldn't make that mistake" than "She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I could be unlucky too". The illusion that a woman chooses to get herself into a situation where she will be raped unfortunately gives the comfort that others could avoid it simply by making different choices in the same situation.

The person to blame in a rape is the rapist. In the end, they made the choice.

EDIT: Yes, the occasional exception to the contrary.

 

[liblady]

I was just talking about this with a friend.

My guess, as poorly-thought-out as it is, would be that some women put blame partially on the victim because it's preferable for them to think that all a woman has to do to avoid being raped is to avoid making the mistakes/choices that the victim has made. To accept that the victim is just unlucky is to accept that they could be equally as unlucky, which is a scary prospect for anyone.

It's easier to think "She acted stupid, I wouldn't make that mistake" than "She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I could be unlucky too". The illusion that a woman chooses to get herself into a situation where she will be raped unfortunately gives the comfort that others could avoid it simply by making different choices in the same situation.

The person to blame in a rape is the rapist. In the end, they made the choice.

EDIT: Yes, the occasional exception to the contrary.

i think men should be outraged by this assumption. it implies that men are unable to control themselves.

 

[Jerry]

Link

I seem to remember a time when the mere fact a woman said "no" (and meant "NO") defined the boundaries - whatever the point in time in any sexual liasion. The man going beyond without permission was then commiting rape.

This latest survey seems to take backward steps for women and rape victims when it is widely acknowledged that prosections for rape in the UK have a poor record.

I know, right, personal responsibility's a bitch.

Legally speaking, exactly how would a woman take partial responsibility? Is she supposed to serve some jail time or what?

 

[Antagony]

It would be interesting to see the religious and ethnic make up of the women surveyed. I only say this because I used to work with a couple of very religious immigrant women and they had absolutely appalling ideas about women who didn't live up to their "moral" standards. According to them, women who dress or act like tarts [their word] deserve everything they get. And trust me, even the slightest hint of cleavage or upper leg was dressing like a tart in their books! :shock:

 

[liblady]

It would be interesting to see the religious and ethnic make up of the women surveyed. I only say this because I used to work with a couple of very religious immigrant women and they had absolutely appalling ideas about women who didn't live up to their "moral" standards. According to them, women who dress or act like tarts [their word] deserve everything they get. And trust me, even the slightest hint of cleavage or upper leg was dressing like a tart in their books! :shock:

that's a conditioned response, though. very religious women are often immersed in a patriarchal society, so they've been brought up to believe that.

 

[Antagony]

that's a conditioned response, though. very religious women are often immersed in a patriarchal society, so they've been brought up to believe that.

Oh I quite agree. I'm just saying that the survey results may be skewed by a disproportionate number of such women being interviewed, as I find it hard to believe the figures quoted in the article are representative of UK women in general.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

(IROP)

Whenever something bad happens to you there are always ways to avoid it, sure.

It's easy to look at a situation after it's happened - or when it didn't happen to you - and think "If you had just said ___. Or if they had just ___." Even things like "If that happened to me I would have ___."

But things are never that simple when you are IN the situation.

 

[TurtleDude]

an interesting side issue involves the legal concepts. Clearly, a woman should have the absolute right to dress as she sees fits and wearing say a low cut blouse, push up bras or a micro mini skirt does not justify-in any way-someone forcing himself upon her.

HOWEVER, most date rapes (which seems to be the issue vs someone pulling a gun on a stranger in the street and raping them) come down to He said, she said.

Patricia Bowman claimed William Kennedy Smith date raped her. WKS said it was consentual. I was between jobs when that case was televised and I watched the entire trial. The verdict was correct. The reason being, the jurors didn't believe PB. Everything she said was contradicted by facts proven and in evidence. For example Miss Bowman claimed her intent on the night in question was to visit a friend and the friend's new born baby-not to go trolling for men in a bar. Yet who would dress in a provacative black mini dress and 60 dollar hose and lace panties to go visit a baby (given baby's propensities to wet, drool or puke at the most inoportune times)

The fact is, the jury believed Miss Bowman was looking to score and that is why Dr Smith walked--her behaviour before the dispute indicated someone who was most likely to have actually said YES

 

[apdst]

This is why polls, as evidence of anything, are bull****.

I bet there are a buncha big, "if's", in the mothodology of this little number.

 

[TurtleDude]

This is why polls, as evidence of anything, are bull****.

I bet there are a buncha big, "if's", in the mothodology of this little number.

wise you are

 

[iangb]

The person to blame in a rape is the rapist. In the end, they made the choice.

i think men should be outraged by this assumption. it implies that men are unable to control themselves.

Which assumption is that? My own assumptions are more or less the exact opposite of what you've stated here, so...

 

[Erod]

No absolutely means no.

However, I have no doubt some women try to lure men into a situation where they can claim rape for monetary reasons.

 

[rivrrat]

I don't give a **** if a woman is walking around nude and propositioning every man in the vicinity except one. That does not make it her fault if that one decides to force her to have sex. I don't care if she's shaking her naked tits right in his face. If she says 'no' to intercourse, then everything after that is HIS responsibility, NOT hers. I don't give a **** how turned on he is. I don't give a **** how much he wants her. I don't give a **** how much she deliberately (or inadvertently) turned him on. If she says no, and he persists, it is rape and it is HIS responsibility.

However, there are a number of women who cry rape who were not actually raped. Those are the women who make it difficult for actual rape victims to step forward. Those are the women who perpetuate the whole 'it's the victim's fault' mentality. Those are the women I'd love to see strung up in the middle of town.

 

[Kushinator]

Rape is quite the touchy subject.... So maybe arguing the point in another lite is preferable.

Say a wealthy man is walking down the street (with flashy jewelry and a fat wallet) in an area that is well known for robbery, etc.... How much sympathy do you have if he happens to get robbed? Does he at least share part of the blame for the lack of personal responsibility?

 

[Jerry]

You'd think a gazelle would stick with the herd to avoid being eaten.

IMO I think people should go out with friends and avoid excessively risky behavior without good reason, carry a gun, stay in shape, and know how to kick the **** out of any would-be thug; but I'm a guy, what do I know, I'll keep my misogynist opinion that women should be responsible and self reliant to myself.

Hey if she want's to be a victim, this is America, it's her body, her choice, so let her get the **** beat out of her if that's what she wants.

 

[Jerry]

I don't give a **** if a woman is walking around nude and propositioning every man in the vicinity except one. That does not make it her fault if that one decides to force her to have sex. I don't care if she's shaking her naked tits right in his face. If she says 'no' to intercourse, then everything after that is HIS responsibility, NOT hers. I don't give a **** how turned on he is. I don't give a **** how much he wants her. I don't give a **** how much she deliberately (or inadvertently) turned him on. If she says no, and he persists, it is rape and it is HIS responsibility.

However, there are a number of women who cry rape who were not actually raped. Those are the women who make it difficult for actual rape victims to step forward. Those are the women who perpetuate the whole 'it's the victim's fault' mentality. Those are the women I'd love to see strung up in the middle of town.

Hell yeah!! **** those stuffy Conservatives and their bigoted ideals like "self respect"!!

You wana be trailer-trash? You go be the best truck-stop cum-dumpster you can be girl!!

 

[TurtleDude]

No absolutely means no.

However, I have no doubt some women try to lure men into a situation where they can claim rape for monetary reasons.

yep, no doubt in my mind that is what happened with William Kennedy Smith. Perhaps the same with Mike Tyson too

 

[rivrrat]

Hell yeah!! **** those stuffy Conservatives and their bigoted ideals like "self respect"!!

One's self respect has absolutely nothing to do with being the victim of a violent crime.

Your implication that a person who is lacking self respect (in YOUR eyes) is somehow responsible for someone enacting a violent crime upon them is insulting, at best.

 

[apdst]

You'd think a gazelle would stick with the herd to avoid being eaten.

IMO I think people should go out with friends and avoid excessively risky behavior without good reason, carry a gun, stay in shape, and know how to kick the **** out of any would-be thug; but I'm a guy, what do I know, I'll keep my misogynist opinion that women should be responsible and self reliant to myself.

Hey if she want's to be a victim, this is America, it's her body, her choice, so let her get the **** beat out of her if that's what she wants.

Reminds me of an ole gal I used to know. She went out with a guy that exhibited all the signs of a sexual preditor; was even warned by people who knew him that he had been known to be forceful; then was all shocked and horrified when he raped her.

No, it's not her fault, per say, but she didn't employ enough common sense to keep herself out of that position.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't give a **** if a woman is walking around nude and propositioning every man in the vicinity except one. That does not make it her fault if that one decides to force her to have sex. I don't care if she's shaking her naked tits right in his face. If she says 'no' to intercourse, then everything after that is HIS responsibility, NOT hers. I don't give a **** how turned on he is. I don't give a **** how much he wants her. I don't give a **** how much she deliberately (or inadvertently) turned him on. If she says no, and he persists, it is rape and it is HIS responsibility..

true BUT if he claims it was consentual and she claims it was rape, I am going to have a hard time believing her if she was acting that way

However, there are a number of women who cry rape who were not actually raped. Those are the women who make it difficult for actual rape victims to step forward. Those are the women who perpetuate the whole 'it's the victim's fault' mentality. Those are the women I'd love to see strung up in the middle of town..

GOod point-its like some black "civil rights" "leaders" who scream racism constantly

 

[apdst]

One's self respect has absolutely nothing to do with being the victim of a violent crime.

Your implication that a person who is lacking self respect (in YOUR eyes) is somehow responsible for someone enacting a violent crime upon them is insulting, at best.

In some cases, I believe it has evrything to do with it. If you hang out in a barn, sooner, or later, you're going to get **** on your shoes. The same applies with the company you keep.

 

[rivrrat]

You'd think a gazelle would stick with the herd to avoid being eaten.

IMO I think people should go out with friends and avoid excessively risky behavior without good reason, carry a gun, stay in shape, and know how to kick the **** out of any would-be thug; but I'm a guy, what do I know, I'll keep my misogynist opinion that women should be responsible and self reliant to myself.

Hey if she want's to be a victim, this is America, it's her body, her choice, so let her get the **** beat out of her if that's what she wants.

Being responsible, self-reliant, and able to kick someone's ass has nothing to do with being raped.

 

[Deuce]

Qualifiers like "some" ruin polls instantly. It leaves so much to interpretation.

Should "some" women take "some responsibility?"

Well, I suppose. There is on occasion a woman who was consenting at the time but changed their mind the next morning because both parties were drunk. That particular situation both parties share responsibility. Does that count as a "rape victim?" The guy asking the questions might not think so, but the person answering the questions might interpret it that way.

NEVER USE THE WORD SOME IN A POLL.

"Do you think some gays want to rape you?"
Well, yes, I'm sure somewhere in the universe there is a gay person who happens to be a rapist and would rape me given the chance. 7 billion people on this rock, gotta be at least one.
So I answer yes, although I'm also thinking it's far more likely that I get struck by lightning while holding a winning lottery ticket.

Meanwhile, an extreme homophobe is asked the same question and he believes that every gay person will rape him at every possible opportunity.
He answers yes.

We both gave the same answer despite having exact opposite views on the matter.

 

[rivrrat]

In some cases, I believe it has evrything to do with it. If you hang out in a barn, sooner, or later, you're going to get **** on your shoes. The same applies with the company you keep.

Obviously, if you leave your house you increase your chance of bad things happening to you. I mean, if someone gets hit by a car, they must have been near where cars were, right? If they hadn't been near the street... they wouldn't have been hit. So they must take responsibility for being hit by a car.

This is bull****, and you know it.

Rapists come in all shapes and sizes. They are not all 'trashy' guys who hang out in low-life bars just waiting to snatch up some drunk girl who is flashing her tits and hitting on everyone.