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Fox News Poll: Most Voters Say Allow Gays to Serve Openly

Winnb said:
All true. All good points.

I'm gonna take a guess at what happens after we lift DADT.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing will change in the military. They'll just keep right on doing their jobs. And all of those on the internet who screeched and wailed about DADT being lifted will let the issue drift quietly into the background.

I think a lot of people are against DADT being lifted simply because the Democrats are in favor of it.
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And I think you would be 100% correct.

Point in case. Where are all those men in the black horned-rimmed glasses that were fighting racial equality 50 years ago? Where are all those men in crew-cuts and button-up shirts that we're protesting rock and roll and hippy's? Where are all those bearded, smelly men in thick suits that were adamently against allow women to vote?

This too, shall pass.
 
danarhea said:
The reason it doesn't add up to 100% is that the story didn't print those who said they didn't know. Sheesh.
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I know that!.. but lately Fox News polls have added up to 140% and worse!
 
Catawba said:
What evidence do you have that veterans were excluded in the polling?
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None my left wing friend I will play your silly game though...What evidence do you have that they were?
 
Winnb said:
So who does that leave that DOES NOT want to drop DADT?
People who think gays are sinners? People who are concerned about the adverse effects within the ranks of the military due to homophobia?
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Only the most important people of all........The people that are affected....
 
Navy Pride said:
Got a link?
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Fox producer: no error in graphic; Media Matters responds - Michael Calderone - POLITICO.com

And a link to media matters that has the video as-aired

Fox News fiddles with climate change polling | Media Matters for America

The fact that these guys didn't notice while talking about it.... :facepalm:

edit:

But Lauren Petterson, executive producer of Fox & Friends, told POLITICO that she sees no error in the graphic. And for that reason, there will be no reprimand of staff under the “zero tolerance" policy.[for mistakes]
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Just found this article, and rather than create a whole new thread, figured I would stick it in here: Don't ask when: Repeal of gay ban won't be soon - Yahoo! News

As that study gets under way, officials were expected by mid-March to suggest ways to relax enforcement of the law. Of particular interest is minimizing cases of "third party outings," where a service member is kicked out after being reported by others to be gay.

The protracted time line is about more than giving military leaders time to assess the impact on troops and put new rules in place. The multiyear process also is a strategic way of getting troops used to the idea before they have to accept change.
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Basically, it sounds like the government and military is moving forward, but rather than do it all at once, they will incrementally change the rules over the course of years. Interestingly, Vice President Cheney said he does support at least a review of the DADT rules:

"When the chiefs come forward and say we think we can do it, it strikes me it's time to reconsider the policy," he said. "I'm reluctant to second-guess the military in this regard."
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While personally I think DADT can be repealed and gays allowed to serve openly without a phasing in(DADT was in fact a phasing in of such a policy), I can understand the reasoning behind going slower, and as long as we are moving the right direction, I am at least a little happy.
 
But Navy, that's not what you said. You didn't say it was important to get ideas from those that have a life in the military. You wanted a more accurate poll by asking people it AFFECTS..
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I think the most important people are the active duty military secondly Veterans and retirees... These are the people who the policy affects and who know....

It doesn't AFFECT Veterans, not in any definite tangible way. I don't care if they're 22 or 82, if they're no longer in the military having gays in the military affects them no more than any other person that isn't in the military.
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I and don't want to see it change because I feel it might destroy the Navy I love.......That is why I believe I should be polled.......

No one is a better judge of what the military can handle in regards to gays being members right now than those that are in it right now, and next to that are those that are most likely to be in it in the future
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I agree......
 
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I love that there are people of out there who believe issues of national security should be determined by opinion polls. I think making the military into a democracy would probably be considerably more harmful, than allowing gays to serve in it, but that is just me.
 
CriticalThought said:
I love that there are people of out there who believe issues of national security should be determined by opinion polls. I think making the military into a democracy would probably be considerably more harmful, than allowing gays to serve in it, but that is just me.
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Is any one saying that polling should be the basis for a change? Even Navy I think is not saying that, but trying to counter this polls numbers with what he sees as more important numbers.
 
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Redress said:
Just because they are interesting. Trends are more important than the actual individual numbers, and society has been trending towards being much more accepting of gays.
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As long as you call them "gay men and lesbians" it seems.
 
CriticalThought said:
As long as you call them "gay men and lesbians" it seems.
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No, that is why trends are the key. The exact numbers will change, but the trends should be fairly consistent. If one poll goes from 20 to 50 % over a period of time, and another goes from 40 to 60 % when polling on the same thing over the same time period with different wording, then you can at least say that there is a definite trend.
 
CriticalThought said:
I love that there are people of out there who believe issues of national security should be determined by opinion polls. I think making the military into a democracy would probably be considerably more harmful, than allowing gays to serve in it, but that is just me.
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Well, in that case, the guys at the top want it done so lets quit screwing around and do it already. The military is not a democracy, so nobody should really care what you, me, or Navy Pride think.

edit: Plus we all know the Navy is probably 60% gay already, right? We should be discussing whether to allow straight people to serve openly! :p
 
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Navy Pride said:
I think the most important people are the active duty military secondly Veterans and retirees... These are the people who the policy affects and who know....
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Except the policy doesn't affect veterans and retirees at all.

I and don't want to see it change because I feel it might destroy the Navy I love.......That is why I believe I should be polled.......
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You are no more qualified to be polled because "it might destroy the navy [you] love" than a gay person is qualified to be polled because "It infringes upon my ability of free speech to state my sexual orientation openly".

Both could make a round about argument that somehow, someway, this affects them....but unless you, or he, are IN the military NOW or are planning on joining and serving soon, both of yours lives will be impacted DIRECTLY the exact same.

Nada.
 
Deuce said:
Well, in that case, the guys at the top want it done so lets quit screwing around and do it already. The military is not a democracy, so nobody should really care what you, me, or Navy Pride think.

edit: Plus we all know the Navy is probably 60% gay already, right? We should be discussing whether to allow straight people to serve openly! :p
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That would be correct. If the Chief military officer and the Commander in Chief are in agreement on military policy, then that should be the policy. No "ifs," "and," or "buts" about it. The military isn't a democracy, and all this polling BS, and "oh I'm so worried the precious military I served in will fall apart if gays serve" is nothing but malarkey. The acting top leaders of the military have decided to change it and veterans embarrass themselves when they go around complaining about it and other people embarrass themselves when they cite opinion polls as if they should determine the issues of national security.
 
Winnb said:
From the article:



Just more proof that slowly but surely the anti-gay crowd is eventually going to disappear.

This is good news. Let's end DADT. And then a year from now laugh about how stupid it was to have it in the first place.
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You can say that General Colin Powell is stupid, by I won't.
 
American said:
You can say that General Colin Powell is stupid, by I won't.
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He has admitted that he made a mistake, essentially. Shows both intelligence and courage. The hardest thing to do is admit that you were wrong.
 
Deuce said:
He has admitted that he made a mistake, essentially. Shows both intelligence and courage. The hardest thing to do is admit that you were wrong.
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He never said that he was wrong, he said that attitudes had changed.
 
American said:
You can say that General Colin Powell is stupid, by I won't.
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General Powell and Vice President Cheney both supporting at least a review of the policy is both a pleasant surprise, and hurtful to the case of those against.
 
Navy Pride said:
None my left wing friend I will play your silly game though...What evidence do you have that they were?
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I was not the one that made this statement ~

"I do think retirees should be polled to though.......I mean they poll they took was of people who were clueless about life in the military...If you can poll them then you can poll people who have been there and experienced
what its like,,,,,"

But your honesty in admitting that was baseless is appreciated.
 
Fox uses an outside company called Opinion Dynamics to run their polls. At least they always used to. They have an office in San Francisco, not that that's at all relevant to polls abut gays.
 
sazerac said:
Fox uses an outside company called Opinion Dynamics to run their polls. At least they always used to. They have an office in San Francisco, not that that's at all relevant to polls abut gays.
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I'm not sure where this poll was taken, but just because their office is in San Francisco doesn't mean that's the only place they called for opinions.

Here's the info from the article:
The national telephone poll was conducted for Fox News by Opinion Dynamics Corp. among 900 registered voters from February 2 to February 3. For the total sample, the poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
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