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Guards stand by during brutal attack

Did you forget about the 8 guy friends of the attacker who were also watching this event? If you pulled a gun and made a move on the attacker, how many of her friends do you think would've also pulled guns and capped your ass for interfering?

None, minors are not allowed to carry firearms......;)
 
Did you forget about the 8 guy friends of the attacker who were also watching this event? If you pulled a gun and made a move on the attacker, how many of her friends do you think would've also pulled guns and capped your ass for interfering?
I think risk assment doesn't need to be mention here, we all assume we would do that, which we would. Perhaps the eight would draw down, then again the most likely scenerio is that they would run. I would be willing to take that risk, including being charged with assault.
 
And you would be in prison for shooting an unarmed 15 year old, among other things.
I can't speak for some states but using your foot on some one especially the head is assault with a deadly weapon, and risk to life can be meant with deadly force. Besides I wouldn't shoot to kill, although in this circumstance that can't be guaranteed. I would be willing to take that risk. If this happened in Texas this assault could have be meant with deadly force, and even in Massachusetts the same can apply but you best have a license to carry..
 
I think risk assment doesn't need to be mention here, we all assume we would do that, which we would. Perhaps the eight would draw down, then again the most likely scenerio is that they would run. I would be willing to take that risk, including being charged with assault.

You do that; and if a couple of those guys had a guns, a firefight ensued and a stray bullet from one of those guys hit and killed a 3-yo girl on a nearby bus; I'd have no problem charging the shooter with murder and you with manslaughter.
 
I think risk assment doesn't need to be mention here, we all assume we would do that, which we would. Perhaps the eight would draw down, then again the most likely scenerio is that they would run. I would be willing to take that risk, including being charged with assault.

If I was there I would jump in to help you. Then it would be 8 to 2. Then if there was another equal minded person it would be 8 to 3.

But true like others say you most likely might be on your own. But what if everyone there jumped in to lend a hand? What if people said this crap wasn't going to happen on their streets.
 
I can't speak for some states but using your foot on some one especially the head is assault with a deadly weapon, and risk to life can be meant with deadly force.

No in all states you cannot draw a weapon on a 15 years old girl in a fight with another 15 year old girl. Unless a weapon was clear and present you cannot in any way use deadly force.

Besides I wouldn't shoot to kill, although in this circumstance that can't be guaranteed.

Does not matter. Drawing down on unarmed minors is frowned upon.

I would be willing to take that risk. If this happened in Texas this assault could have be meant with deadly force, and even in Massachusetts the same can apply but you best have a license to carry..

No, even in Texas. What part of "you cannot draw a weapon on an unarmed minor girl without any weapon at all" are you missing?
 
If I was there I would jump in to help you. Then it would be 8 to 2. Then if there was another equal minded person it would be 8 to 3.

But true like others say you most likely might be on your own. But what if everyone there jumped in to lend a hand? What if people said this crap wasn't going to happen on their streets.

This would work well in utopia, but we don't live there. And outside of criminal charges, the law suits brought against you by the parents of the girl you drew down on should be enough to at least make you stop and think before jumping in to help some knucklehead stupid enough to draw down on an unarmed 15 year old.
 
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You do that; and if a couple of those guys had a guns, a firefight ensued and a stray bullet from one of those guys hit and killed a 3-yo girl on a nearby bus; I'd have no problem charging the shooter with murder and you with manslaughter.
I'd have no problem charging the shooter with murder and you with manslaughter
So be it, I would still help and take my chances in court, although it's attitudes such as yours is why people don't help. Besides gunfights are usually one sided.

This man helped and he walked in the a state with one of the strictest gun laws, BTW he did the right thing and he had balls and no charges where brought forth..
Patient fatally shot after stabbing Boston psychiatrist - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

Here is another man who had balls to do something, no charged brought forth.
Pasadena man fatally shoots burglary suspects | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


So you see from the bluest of blue states to the reddest of red states, people are fed up with crime. You may want to charge a person such as myself with manslaughter, but I will leave it up to my peers who place final judgement on me.
 
No in all states you cannot draw a weapon on a 15 years old girl in a fight with another 15 year old girl. Unless a weapon was clear and present you cannot in any way use deadly force.



Does not matter. Drawing down on unarmed minors is frowned upon.



No, even in Texas. What part of "you cannot draw a weapon on an unarmed minor girl without any weapon at all" are you missing?
What part of assault with a deadly weapon don't you understand, non the less I'll take my chances. Kicking with the foot in the head is considered a weapon in most states but, not all. Btw I should have mentioned I wouldn't step in until the kicking to the head started. Fist fights yes, non of my business and if it becomes my business I would step in but, without a weapon.
here is a google search in regards to kicking in a fight..which is a deadly weapon.
[ame=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS307US308&q=Is+kicking+to+the+head+assault+with+a+weapon]Is kicking to the head assault with a weapon - Google Search[/ame]
 
Look, I sympathize strongly with the desire to jump in and do something. I'm not going to say that I would not have intervened, as I have a history of doing stupid **** in the name of protecting others... but pausing to make a realistic appraisal of your risks in intervention isn't cowardice, it is prudence.

But, do recognize that from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, jumping in here is taking a big risk. You're going to end up being scrutinized by law enforcement at a minimum; you may be charged; you might even have to stand trial, depending. At best that can cost you more money than you can afford to pay; losing your house and everything you own and having your salary taken-from for twenty years is possible if you lose in civil suit; at worst you could do time in prison away from your own family. It happens.

You have to be aware that if you involve yourself other people might jump in, and the situation could escalate and become an armed battle.

Immediately pulling a gun on a 15yo girl engaged in an unarmed brawl with another 15yo girl is a fairly extreme reaction. Granted, from a purely tactical standpoint taking control through the threat of overwhelming firepower has its points, but legally you're putting yourself in a very precarious position. Playing the hero seems very noble until you're doing 15 years in the State pen in the company of people you'd rather not spend 15 minutes with.

A more moderate approach would be to move close to the fight and yell at the kicker, 'HEY, that's enough! Whatcha trying to do, kill her? Cut it out! The cops are on the way already!'

That might be enough to cause the perps to unazz the AO, as they probably prefer not to encounter the police.

Or it might not... maybe some of the bystanders will threaten you and warn you to stay out of it. This may give you a chance to evaluate the situation and see what kind of opposition you're looking at before you take it any further.

The next step might be physically interposing myself between the girl doing the kicking and the girl that's down. I ain't scared of getting hit by some 15yo girl, I'd be glad to take some of the blows to keep her from kicking the other girl any more... but I have to be aware that the attacking girl just might pull a knife or gun if I do this, and I have to be prepared to deal with that and to accept that the end consequences of my intervention may be very serious. This could include losing my life, or all that I own, or my freedom. I also have to consider the effect on my family/dependents if I am killed, sued into poverty, or imprisoned for a long term.

If you still think it is worth it, in a situation that isn't necessarily life-or-death, then by all means go for it. Just make sure you're fully aware of what you're getting into, and what the final cost might be.

The difference between someone who is a professional in use-of-force situations (ie violent crime), and an amateur, could be summed up as the ability to make a rational assessment of a situation, rather than an emotional one. If you make a rational assessment and believe it is worth the risk, more power to you. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd been there at the time; it would depend on my on-the-spot assessment of the situation.

In closing... When the machine gun opens fire from a covered position, Private Hothead charges it in the open and gets heroically blasted to pieces... Sergeant Old-Pro takes cover and calls in an airstrike while smoking a cigar. :mrgreen:
 
Look, I sympathize strongly with the desire to jump in and do something. I'm not going to say that I would not have intervened, as I have a history of doing stupid **** in the name of protecting others... but pausing to make a realistic appraisal of your risks in intervention isn't cowardice, it is prudence.

But, do recognize that from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, jumping in here is taking a big risk. You're going to end up being scrutinized by law enforcement at a minimum; you may be charged; you might even have to stand trial, depending. At best that can cost you more money than you can afford to pay; losing your house and everything you own and having your salary taken-from for twenty years is possible if you lose in civil suit; at worst you could do time in prison away from your own family. It happens.

You have to be aware that if you involve yourself other people might jump in, and the situation could escalate and become an armed battle.

Immediately pulling a gun on a 15yo girl engaged in an unarmed brawl with another 15yo girl is a fairly extreme reaction. Granted, from a purely tactical standpoint taking control through the threat of overwhelming firepower has its points, but legally you're putting yourself in a very precarious position. Playing the hero seems very noble until you're doing 15 years in the State pen in the company of people you'd rather not spend 15 minutes with.

A more moderate approach would be to move close to the fight and yell at the kicker, 'HEY, that's enough! Whatcha trying to do, kill her? Cut it out! The cops are on the way already!'

That might be enough to cause the perps to unazz the AO, as they probably prefer not to encounter the police.

Or it might not... maybe some of the bystanders will threaten you and warn you to stay out of it. This may give you a chance to evaluate the situation and see what kind of opposition you're looking at before you take it any further.

The next step might be physically interposing myself between the girl doing the kicking and the girl that's down. I ain't scared of getting hit by some 15yo girl, I'd be glad to take some of the blows to keep her from kicking the other girl any more... but I have to be aware that the attacking girl just might pull a knife or gun if I do this, and I have to be prepared to deal with that and to accept that the end consequences of my intervention may be very serious. This could include losing my life, or all that I own, or my freedom. I also have to consider the effect on my family/dependents if I am killed, sued into poverty, or imprisoned for a long term.

If you still think it is worth it, in a situation that isn't necessarily life-or-death, then by all means go for it. Just make sure you're fully aware of what you're getting into, and what the final cost might be.

The difference between someone who is a professional in use-of-force situations (ie violent crime), and an amateur, could be summed up as the ability to make a rational assessment of a situation, rather than an emotional one. If you make a rational assessment and believe it is worth the risk, more power to you. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd been there at the time; it would depend on my on-the-spot assessment of the situation.

In closing... When the machine gun opens fire from a covered position, Private Hothead charges it in the open and gets heroically blasted to pieces... Sergeant Old-Pro takes cover and calls in an airstrike while smoking a cigar. :mrgreen:
Now this makes the most sense, Goshin..thanks, I was just poking the hornets nest a bit. Now that said, yes I would do a risk assessment, and yes I did state I would give a warning and if I got a reaction to that warning I would follow up on the warning. Odds are by what you suggested would probably be all that would be required. Lastly, if the perp didn't stop kicking into the other girls head even after warnings, something would have to be done. I realize it is easy to say what I would do from behind this monitor but, I have been not only behind the gun but also in front it. If I had a uof doubt, then I would never even consider pulling a weapon.

Kicking to the head can kill very easily, a assessment has to be done and quickly, once made whomever wishing to get involved would have to act quickly. That girl in the video I assume was OK, she was lucky...this time.
 
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This **** happens amongst the animals on a daily basis here in the heart of deepest, darkest Libtardia, this one just happened to get caught on film......:doh
Go to the corner of Third & Pine on any day & you will see the jetsam & flotsam of failed Libtard policy.....;)
This type of scum is the reason I carry a gun to work everyday.....:(
To stand idly by while a prone, defenseless person is head stomped isn't human either........

*Puts Partisan on ignore*
 
Wonder if they have "Good Samaritan" Laws in that area? Hope so. Those guards need to be arrested. :(:(:(

The Good Samaritan laws protect the person who attempts to help the injured party. It wouldn't be a basis for arresting those who did nothing (unless one of the security guards had put the girl into the situation she was in--then there is a duty to act).

I see someone else addressed this.
 
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Personally, this whole scene sickens me. Okay, I can understand their not wanting to get involved but why wasn't anyone calling 911 immediately?

For me, I would have had to intervene, even if it was going to subject me to getting hit. I could not stand there and do nothing. I could not walk away and tell myself not to get involved. I would have to do what I could to protect that poor girl. I wouldn't look to fight with any of those animals who were punching and kicking her.

I just can't fathom having that much anger towards anyone where I could punch them over and over and kick them and STOMP on them. Do these kids have consciences? They can't. They simply can't. I won't even watch the video because I know it will make me sick.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely resembling this ever occurred when I was in middle or high school. Thank goodness I grew up in a small town with decent human beings.
 
Personally, this whole scene sickens me. Okay, I can understand their not wanting to get involved but why wasn't anyone calling 911 immediately?

For me, I would have had to intervene, even if it was going to subject me to getting hit. I could not stand there and do nothing. I could not walk away and tell myself not to get involved. I would have to do what I could to protect that poor girl. I wouldn't look to fight with any of those animals who were punching and kicking her.

I just can't fathom having that much anger towards anyone where I could punch them over and over and kick them and STOMP on them. Do these kids have consciences? They can't. They simply can't. I won't even watch the video because I know it will make me sick.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely resembling this ever occurred when I was in middle or high school. Thank goodness I grew up in a small town with decent human beings.

It just keeps getting worse....;)
You really should read the article I posted from the Seattle Times.....;)
 
Personally, this whole scene sickens me. Okay, I can understand their not wanting to get involved but why wasn't anyone calling 911 immediately?

For me, I would have had to intervene, even if it was going to subject me to getting hit. I could not stand there and do nothing. I could not walk away and tell myself not to get involved. I would have to do what I could to protect that poor girl. I wouldn't look to fight with any of those animals who were punching and kicking her.

I just can't fathom having that much anger towards anyone where I could punch them over and over and kick them and STOMP on them. Do these kids have consciences? They can't. They simply can't. I won't even watch the video because I know it will make me sick.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely resembling this ever occurred when I was in middle or high school. Thank goodness I grew up in a small town with decent human beings.


Hmm. I grew up outside of a town of 2,500. About twelve miles away was a small city of 40,000.

By the time I was 15 I'd been on the wrong end of two knives, one broken bottle, and one pistol. My best friend had been shot dead at 14 by another 14yo. I couldn't have told you how many fights I'd been in, let alone how many I'd seen. I'd been beaten half to death by a gang of six guys. I'd seen people cut up. I carried a knife and kept a pistol in my car. Someone was stabbed or shot about every other week, usually someone in the 18-30 year old category but sometimes younger teenagers.

I don't know why it was like that during that time period. It isn't now, it's as peaceful a small town as any Mayberry RFD fantasy... other than the serial killer thing last year. For some reason during the 70's it was freaking Dodge City though. I wish I knew the reason, because I lost some people I cared about during that period. One probable factor is that the place was awash in drugs during the 70's, but I don't think that was the whole story.

Not all bad stuff happens in cities.
 
Hmm. I grew up outside of a town of 2,500. About twelve miles away was a small city of 40,000.

By the time I was 15 I'd been on the wrong end of two knives, one broken bottle, and one pistol. My best friend had been shot dead at 14 by another 14yo. I couldn't have told you how many fights I'd been in, let alone how many I'd seen. I'd been beaten half to death by a gang of six guys. I'd seen people cut up. I carried a knife and kept a pistol in my car. Someone was stabbed or shot about every other week, usually someone in the 18-30 year old category but sometimes younger teenagers.

I don't know why it was like that during that time period. It isn't now, it's as peaceful a small town as any Mayberry RFD fantasy... other than the serial killer thing last year. For some reason during the 70's it was freaking Dodge City though. I wish I knew the reason, because I lost some people I cared about during that period. One probable factor is that the place was awash in drugs during the 70's, but I don't think that was the whole story.

Not all bad stuff happens in cities.

Pffttt... that's not small town. The town I went to high school in had a population of 600. THAT is a small town. Damn city-folk ;)
 
The Good Samaritan laws protect the person who attempts to help the injured party. It wouldn't be a basis for arresting those who did nothing (unless one of the security guards had put the girl into the situation she was in--then there is a duty to act).

I see someone else addressed this.

Yep, but thanks anyway. The last couple Seinfeld's were about this, and I thought from that that they should have intervened. My bad!:3oops:
 
Personally, this whole scene sickens me. Okay, I can understand their not wanting to get involved but why wasn't anyone calling 911 immediately?

Kind of wondered about that one myself. No excuse in the age of the cell phone.

For me, I would have had to intervene, even if it was going to subject me to getting hit. I could not stand there and do nothing. I could not walk away and tell myself not to get involved. I would have to do what I could to protect that poor girl. I wouldn't look to fight with any of those animals who were punching and kicking her.

The only one hitting and kicking her was another 15 year old girl. No one else attacked her in any way. She was covering her face and head after she fell down and was never unconscious etc.

I just can't fathom having that much anger towards anyone where I could punch them over and over and kick them and STOMP on them. Do these kids have consciences? They can't. They simply can't. I won't even watch the video because I know it will make me sick.

You mite actually know what happened and not react to the hype.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely resembling this ever occurred when I was in middle or high school. Thank goodness I grew up in a small town with decent human beings.

:)
 
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