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Outspoken gay activist called back to active Army duty

It seems like some of you have a double standard. I keep hearing the right-wing speak of "thought police" and "enemies of free speech" since the election of President Obama... but I think the enemy of free speech is looking at you in the mirror. And we can't forget the classic Support Our Troops slogan. What an excellent way to support the troops... Lets just boot them out the military because they used the 1st amendment, written on the same constitution they are sworn to defend.
 
Can you be court martialed and given an honorable discharge?

I guess you could.

We try very hard to allow trial by court-martial NOT to happen. It's always the last option.

Those discharged under DADT are given an honorable discharge, none are court martialed because it's not an option. There is no arguing it. They either copped to it or were caught.
 
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Whoever.

The rule says you can be discharged for violence but that doesn't mean I have specific examples at hand. If I were a JAG I might.



I can't imagine someone being found guilty and given an honorable discharge.

And just where did you get the idea you weren't a jag?

:rofl j/k Jer.

Hope you get laid today bro.
 
Whoever.

The rule says you can be discharged for violence but that doesn't mean I have specific examples at hand. If I were a JAG I might.

You'd think one would be able to link to such an instance. ;)

I can't imagine someone being found guilty and given an honorable discharge.

Are you saying that violators of DADT are all given dishonorable discharges?
 
You'd think one would be able to link to such an instance. ;)



Are you saying that violators of DADT are all given dishonorable discharges?

Believe it or not, it is really hard to get dishonorably discharged. That is reserved for the most serious of crimes.

There are many knids of discharges

BCD's are bad but not dishonorable.

OTH's is sorta like agreeing to disagree but it doesn't mandate bad contact or dishonorable. It's sorta between getting fired and laid off.

I suspect the gays would probably just be in the OTH category if found to have been in violation of code. Sorta like smokin' a joint. :mrgreen:

Now, if the guy was gay, got caught boinkin' the XO in the butt, drunk of tequila, while on watch on duty day, that might merit a BCD. Depends.
 
I guess you could.

We try very hard to allow trial by court-martial NOT to happen. It's always the last option.

Those discharged under DADT are given an honorable discharge, none are court martialed because it's not an option. There is no arguing it. They either copped to it or were caught.

I know. ;)
 
Now, if the guy was gay, got caught boinkin' the XO in the butt, drunk of tequila, while on watch on duty day, that might merit a BCD. Depends.

I still doubt it. They are nearly impossible to give out.

A board convenes, a General has to approve...it's a nightmare.

GD is usually the best way to go, because it's the quickest and it gets them out of the unit the fastest.

The problem with OTH and BCD is that they take forever and that dude is still in your formation EVERY DAY until it gets approved (or not). Not a good option.
 
Are you saying that violators of DADT are all given dishonorable discharges?

Not receiving an Honorable Discharge does not equal to receiving a Dishonorable Discharge. There are 5 types of Disharge:

1. Honorable
2. General (under honorable conditions)
3. Other Than Honorable
4. Bad Conduct
5. Dishonorable


There is talk of another new discharge in the works....."Doin' the Butt Discharge."
 
Not receiving an Honorable Discharge does not equal to receiving a Dishonorable Discharge. There are 5 types of Disharge:

1. Honorable
2. General (under honorable conditions)
3. Other Than Honorable
4. Bad Conduct
5. Dishonorable


There is talk of another new discharge in the works....."Doin' the Butt Discharge."

:rofl.............
 
Repealing the law is going to cause more harm than good.

Like it did in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Romania, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
United Kingdom, and Uruguay?

Because I've not read any articles about any of their militaries falling apart as a result of lifting the ban on gays serving.

Or do you prefer to be in the company of these freedom-loving nations:
Cuba, China, Egypt, Iran, Jamaica, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Serbia, Syria, Turkey, Venezuela, and Yemen?

Seriously, which nations look predominantly like nation's that respect liberty and freedom - and which community of nations look a little backwards and NOT bastions of liberty.

That's the company you keep.
 
Like it did in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Romania, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
United Kingdom, and Uruguay?

How many of those armies have been real battles lately?

The last time Argentina was in a fight, thy got their asses severely handed to them.

Same goes for Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lituania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Romania and Peru.

Switzerland and Sweden haven't been a in a war, of any sort in several centuries.

The last war that the Spanish were in was the Spanish Civil War. Neithr side would have prevailed in even that war, without outside intervention...LOL!!!

Not a very good track record.

The Sturmabtelung had alotta gays, too. Ernst Rohm was gay. He was a great guy. How did that all turn out??

And, before you break the whole homophobe crap, remember that you can't only accept the history that supports your POV and ignore the rest.
 
Like it did in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Romania, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
United Kingdom, and Uruguay?

Because I've not read any articles about any of their militaries falling apart as a result of lifting the ban on gays serving.

Or do you prefer to be in the company of these freedom-loving nations:
Cuba, China, Egypt, Iran, Jamaica, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Serbia, Syria, Turkey, Venezuela, and Yemen?

Seriously, which nations look predominantly like nation's that respect liberty and freedom - and which community of nations look a little backwards and NOT bastions of liberty.

That's the company you keep.

Ooh. That was an uppercut. You gonna enlist?
 
I think we all know the answer to that one.

Couldn't even if I wanted to. But my father was at Gitmo during Bay of Pigs, my Uncle was a bombardier in WWII, my other uncle lost his life in Vietnam. My brother-in-law is a career Navy guy.

So, my family has a long history with the military and I understand the culture well.

None of your belly-aching speaks to the fact that you prefer your country to behave like Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea instead of nations like Israel, the UK, Canada, and Australia.

And Argentina got its ass kicked BEFORE they allowed gays in the military.
 
Couldn't even if I wanted to. But my father was at Gitmo during Bay of Pigs, my Uncle was a bombardier in WWII, my other uncle lost his life in Vietnam. My brother-in-law is a career Navy guy.

So, my family has a long history with the military and I understand the culture well.

None of your belly-aching speaks to the fact that you prefer your country to behave like Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea instead of nations like Israel, the UK, Canada, and Australia.

I believe the whole thing is as ridiculous as females in the Infantry because both have nothing to do with gays or women.

Ever notice how the loudest protestors and "belly achers" are always those civilians and politicians who have no notion of joining or going through the hardship they are forcing others to do on behalf of their platforms? Always the axe grinders who stand as far away as possible. No female in the military wants to live the hardship of a Grunt, but it is those who "speak for them" who force the issue. It's no different for gays. No gay activist is standing in line to put on a uniform. And no gay in the military wants to be singled out for some politician's agenda. It is going to be very hard on them. But they will go through it so that people like you can read about it from afar and feel better about yourselves.

When it is time for this, it will happen. This won't be the first cultural change in the military. However, this will be the first cultural change that occurred in the civilian sector first. While Civilians were segregating blacks and whites in schools and in public places, the military was integrating patrols in the jungle. While civilians were patting their secretaries on their asses, the military was promoting them to Colonel.

So let's not pretend that our country is held back because of the institution of the military. You make reference to Iran and others? How foolish of you. Gays are not murdered and hanged for being gay in America. Gays live quite openly without fear of persecution in America. But an old rule, which you civilians have spent decades wishing enforced, is suppsed to make us behave like Iran? Bit dramatic. It's you civilians that have historically been the pains in the asses and the military that represented the best of you abroad.

And Argentina got its ass kicked BEFORE they allowed gays in the military.

Are you aware that two World Wars and a Cold War was won in a time when gays were not allowed to serve? What's your point? Or was this just more dramatics?
 
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It's you civilians that have historically been the pains in the asses and the military that represented the best of you abroad.

Hats off to the military for defending this country during WWII. Off course they couldn't have done it without civilian support back home; but hey, that's another story.
 
No gay activist is standing in line to put on a uniform. And no gay in the military wants to be singled out for some politician's agenda. It is going to be very hard on them. But they will go through it so that people like you can read about it from afar and feel better about yourselves.

Really? Facts much?

I mean this thread is ABOUT a gay activist who is in the military, so that alone makes your statement that no gay activists want to be in the military patently false.

Since DADT has ejected more than 13,000 soldiers, it says to me that a lot of gay people want to serve their country.

Look, it's simply going to happen. All the top military brass know it. That's why they're simply phasing it in.

In the end it's going to be fine. And everyone will wonder what all the fuss is about.

Only the cultural conservatives will occasionally point out some bumps in the road and pretend that our military is collapsing - when it's going to be fine.

Our country and society makes adjustments all the time and it ALWAYS progresses.

Massachusetts passed gay marriage quite some time ago. They're still on the map and still have one of the highest rates of marriage and lowest divorce rates in the country.

And I note that you still refuse to address that we're keeping company NOT with our allies but with many of our enemies with a policy like this. Why, if we are to be at the forefront of liberty and freedom do we keep company with dictators and not with our allies of democracy?

You keep refusing to address that point. Why?
 
How many of those armies have been real battles lately?
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lituania, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Romania and Peru.
Let's see. Countries fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan:

UK, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Netherlands, Australia.

Does that answer your question?
 
Really? Facts much?

I mean this thread is ABOUT a gay activist who is in the military, so that alone makes your statement that no gay activists want to be in the military patently false.

I believe you are smart enough to see what my point was. But let's replace "no" with an extreme few shall we? That way you are less argumentative.

Since DADT has ejected more than 13,000 soldiers, it says to me that a lot of gay people want to serve their country.

It tells me that until it was forced, gays in the military were normally left alone. DADT was a civilian's attempt to shine a rainbow over the military, but what they got was a military that was forced to deal with individuals who now had a way out.

Look, it's simply going to happen. All the top military brass know it. That's why they're simply phasing it in.

I believe I have stated as much for years. Why...I even stated it in my last post. Stop being argumentative.

And I note that you still refuse to address that we're keeping company NOT with our allies but with many of our enemies with a policy like this.

I addressed it. I noted that you delivered an "uppercut." But as I have seen from your above remarks, you are a literal individual. How exactly would you like me to phrase it? Stop being argumentative.


Why, if we are to be at the forefront of liberty and freedom do we keep company with dictators and not with our allies of democracy?

We do keep company with dictators....as do our allies.

You keep refusing to address that point. Why?

I addressed your point. I even noted your dramatics. You are being argumentative. Why?
 
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