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Outspoken gay activist called back to active Army duty

CriticalThought said:
Good thing we are changing such a dumb law. You can do that when a law causes more harm than good.
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How do you know it caused harm? It may have ruined some careers, but the gays knew about the law, yet they chose to violate it by either coming out of the closet and announcing themselves or getting caught in the act. They only have themselves to blame. Did they think they were going to get a pass because they came out and admitted it? If they had kept their mouths shut, they'd still be serving our country.
 
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samsmart said:
Because most of those Log Cabin Republicans are fiscal conservatives or paleo-conservatives, not social or religious conservatives. Just because a person is a conservative doesn't mean they agree with all other conservative philosophies.
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Disneydude was lumping all conservatives into one pot and calling everyone right-winged nuts. I guess he doesn't see the various levels.
 
bicycleman said:
How do you know it caused harm? It may have ruined some careers, but the gays knew about the law, yet they chose to violate it by either coming out of the closet and announcing themselves are getting caught in the act. They only have themselves to blame. Did they think they were going to get a pass because they came out and admitted it? If they had kept their mouths shut, they'd still be serving our country.
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This is like saying that before desegregation, when blacks couldn't serve in combat units in the U.S. military, it was their fault that they couldn't fight because if they really wanted to fight they wouldn't have been born black.
 
CriticalThought said:
When you are a politician, if you want to get anything done, you have to go where the support is.
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But, that's when you're a politician. When you're a leader, you do what you think is right.
 
CriticalThought said:
Actually I think the Spartans were the best fighting force in the world. They managed to hold off several million Persians with an allied force of under 10,000 for three days in the Battle of Thermopylae. And boy oh boy, did those Spartans ever have homosexuals in their military.
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And, how did things eventually turn out for the Spartans?
 
samsmart said:
This is like saying that before desegregation, when blacks couldn't serve in combat units in the U.S. military, it was their fault that they couldn't fight because if they really wanted to fight they wouldn't have been born black.
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You're equating apples to oranges. Race and sexual orientation are not comparable.
 
bicycleman said:
You're equating apples to oranges. Race and sexual orientation are not comparable.
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Why not? Civil rights are civil rights. Rosa Parks could have avoided being arrested had she simply complied with James Blake's ordering her to the back of the bus. After all, she knew the law...
 
bicycleman said:
I'm glad that you concede that the problem did not originate with the right-winged establishment.
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No problem. I've never said that DADT was the fault of the right-wing. It was a Clinton mistake and unfortunately I think it was worse than what preceded it.
 
towski said:
Why not? Civil rights are civil rights. Rosa Parks could have avoided being arrested had she simply complied with James Blake's ordering her to the back of the bus. After all, she knew the law...
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Civil rights have nothing to do with this argument. Gays have always had civil rights. Blacks were the only ones who had their civil rights denied.
 
apdst said:
And, how did things eventually turn out for the Spartans?
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They were around for several times longer than America has even been in existence. All civilizations fall eventually, but homosexuality certainly didn't hurt them any. They are remembered to this day for their militarism over 2,000 years since their fall.
 
People aren't really arguing that homosexuality gives you a better chance at being a kick-ass Spartan-like warrior... are they?

Have we gone completely mad?
 
CriticalThought said:
They were around for several times longer than America has even been in existence. All civilizations fall eventually, but homosexuality certainly didn't hurt them any. They are remembered to this day for their militarism over 2,000 years since their fall.
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Well, they're not here anymore. nuff said.
 
Arch Enemy said:
People aren't really arguing that homosexuality gives you a better chance at being a kick-ass Spartan-like warrior... are they?

Have we gone completely mad?
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Of course they are! That's the whole point. Our army isn't as good as it could be, because there aren't enough gays.
 
apdst said:
Of course they are! That's the whole point. Our army isn't as good as it could be, because there aren't enough gays.
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Well....you ALMOST got it. What it is really saying is "Why exclude people from the military that have something to offer and are willing to serve".
 
bicycleman said:
Civil rights have nothing to do with this argument. Gays have always had civil rights. Blacks were the only ones who had their civil rights denied.
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Your ignorance of what defines civil rights is only equalled by your ignorance of the history of their denial.

This is as poor a post as you've ever managed, Bikeman, and you've had some doozies...

Homosexuality has been labeled a felony crime in the past, existing "Sodomy Laws" which prohibit oral and anal sexual intercourse, even between consenting adults, were primarily used to target homosexuals, the government denies openly gays employment to federal institutions like the military, one of the nation's largest employers.
 
disneydude said:
Well....you ALMOST got it. What it is really saying is "Why exclude people from the military that have something to offer and are willing to serve".
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And, if that had been ya'lls argument all along, you would have sold me. But, we all know it has nothing to do with it.
 
Arch Enemy said:
People aren't really arguing that homosexuality gives you a better chance at being a kick-ass Spartan-like warrior... are they?

Have we gone completely mad?
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I don't know... They certainly work out and keep their bodies in shape.
 
I prefer the term "human rights" to "civil rights" when debating these issues.

Furthermore, military policy should have nothing to do with civil rights or prejudice. What should determine military policy is national security. Every study that has been conducted on DADT in the last 17 years has indicated that ending DADT would have no significant negative impact on national security, whereas things like firing 50 or so Arab translators certainly does. This one year study will determine the same, and the conservatives will lose on this issue, but not because it is a civil rights issue, rather because it is a national security issue. They will have to learn the hard way, that military policy can be no more dictated by their personal prejudices than by the liberal's call for equal rights.
 
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Arch Enemy said:
People aren't really arguing that homosexuality gives you a better chance at being a kick-ass Spartan-like warrior... are they?

Have we gone completely mad?
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Gotta keep in shape if you want to attract yourself a good man.

Those hetero boys don't have that drive. :mrgreen:
 
CriticalThought said:
Gotta keep in shape if you want to attract yourself a good man.

Those hetero boys don't have that drive. :mrgreen:
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Because at the end of the day, we're real men.
 
apdst said:
And, if that had been ya'lls argument all along, you would have sold me. But, we all know it has nothing to do with it.
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Don't know why you say that....that is what it has ALWAYS been about.
 
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