• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NL Premier Williams Set to Have Heart Surgery in US

The Prof

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,828
Reaction score
1,808
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.

Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.

"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.

"In consultation with his own doctors, he's decided to go that route."

Mr. Williams' decision to leave Canada for the surgery has raised eyebrows over his apparent shunning of Canada's health-care system.

"It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province," said Ms. Dunderdale, refusing to answer whether the procedure could be done elsewhere in Canada.

Mr. Williams, 59, has said nothing of his health in the media.

"The premier has made a commitment that once he's through this procedure and he's well enough, he's going to talk about the whole process and share as much detail with you as he's comfortable to do at that time," she said.

Ms. Dunderdale wouldn't say where in the U.S. Mr. Williams is seeking treatment.

A popular Progressive Conservative premier, Mr. Williams has also seen his share of controversy. During the 2008 federal election, Mr. Williams vehemently opposed the Conservative government, launching his "Anything But Conservative" -- which has been credited with keeping the Tories from winning any seats in the province.

He's also drawn criticism for his support of the seal hunt.

no comment

The Prof
 
Why no comment?

He's probably just coming here like all "illegals" do to get free health care.

:mrgreen:
 
Look, the only time some Americans give a **** about Canada is when something happens here that helps their point of view! The rest of the time they probably don't care and likely don't know much about this country. Right-wingers who are opposed to government health care cherry pick the bad stuff, or downsides, and ignore all the good things about Canada's universal health care system.

I'm tired of my country being the whipping boy for partisan American interests! Do we do some things better than the US? Sure. Are we perfect? No, and we never claimed to be. We know we have problems that need to be sorted out, but we're trying to deal with them. /rant
 
Last edited:
Look, the only time some Americans give a **** about Canada is when something happens here that helps their point of view! The rest of the time they probably don't care and likely don't know much about this country. Right-wingers who are opposed to government health care cherry pick the bad stuff, or downsides, and ignore all the good things about Canada's universal health care system.

:violin:violin:violin

Why do you think the premier is choosing to seek care in America?

If we had universal care, then where would the poor man go? India?
 
Last edited:
:violin:violin:violin

Why do you think the premier is choosing to seek care in America?

If we had universal care, then where would he have to go? India?

Keep in mind that until very recently, Newfoundland was a poor province! They likely have not had the resources to fund their medical services as properly as maybe they should have. NF only recently changed from a "Have-Not" to a "Have" province. We have universal health care in Canada, but the health care systems and quality varies province to province, because health care is a provincial jurisdiction in Canada.
 
Last edited:
Keep in mind that until very recently, Newfoundland was a poor province! They likely have not had the resources to fund their medical services as properly as maybe they should have. NF only recently changed from a "Have-Not" to a "Have" province. We have universal health care in Canada, but the health care systems and quality varies province to province, because health care is a provincial jurisdiction in Canada.

Why not go to another province?
 
Look, the only time some Americans give a **** about Canada is when something happens here that helps their point of view! The rest of the time they probably don't care and likely don't know much about this country. Right-wingers who are opposed to government health care cherry pick the bad stuff, or downsides, and ignore all the good things about Canada's universal health care system.

I'm tired of my country being the whipping boy for partisan American interests! Do we do some things better than the US? Sure. Are we perfect? No, and we never claimed to be. We know we have problems that need to be sorted out, but we're trying to deal with them. /rant

It's true, Americans love to cherry pick Canada. You're so close and so friendly. You guys should just invade and take the Dakotas or something. I'm sure they're undefended, what with 90% of our military spread out all over the damn planet protecting our corporate interests.

But seriously, I'll believe America has a better health care system than Canada when I see Canada switch to our system.
 
Why not go to another province?

I don't know, in Canada Canadians and others who legally reside here are guaranteed access to health care treatment in other provinces at no additional expense (your home province pays for it I believe). However, I'm not sure how the waiting list system works for surgeries (non-emergency surgery); like whether or not you can get on waiting lists for surgery in other provinces when your own province should be providing you care (i.e. you're not visiting another province). Now that I think about it, I actually kind of doubt that they would allow province-hopping for care options. But I would have to look into that...
 
But seriously, I'll believe America has a better health care system than Canada when I see Canada switch to our system.

There are certainly a few benefits of the US system over Canada's, I'm not going to deny that. But we Canadians like our universal health care overall. It would be political suicide for any politician to even suggest ditching it!
 
I happened across this article whilst Googling the subject.

People from Saskatchewan may soon be coming to British Columbia for surgery, if negotiations between the two provincial governments are successful.

B.C.'s health minister, Kevin Falcon, said selling surgeries will bring money into B.C.'s system and help British Columbians get care sooner. But New Democratic Party health critic, Adrian Dix, said the plan makes no sense when health authorities are already cancelling surgeries for British Columbians.

"We'd obviously have to do the homework on how we would do it," said Falcon. "The principle would be that we'd charge a premium for the service that would allow us to not only cover our costs but use the additional revenues to then allow British Columbians to get their procedures done sooner and quicker." The Tyee reported Monday on the plan, after the Canadian Press reported that Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall mentioned it. "If people have been waiting for 15 months, do they care if [their surgery] happens in Saskatoon, Regina or Surrey? I'm not sure they do," the story quoted Wall saying.

Close to an agreement

Discussions are in "early stages," Falcon said, but added the two provinces are close to signing a memorandum of understanding that would have 400 orthopaedic surgeries done for people from Saskatchewan in British Columbia's public hospitals over two years.

He identified the UBC Centre for Surgical Innovation and St. Paul's Hospital as places which could likely be used for the plan.

<snip>



Across the province, there are 15,000 people waiting for orthopaedic surgery, Dix said. The figure is confirmed on the province's waitlist website.

"They cancel 10,000 surgeries for us and they offer up those surgeries to people in Saskatchewan," said Dix. "When you offer up spaces to people from other provinces, then those are spaces that could and should be taken by the people who paid for those hospitals, paid for those operating rooms, paid for that capacity, and that's the people of British Columbia."

Dix disagreed with Falcon's assertion that people from B.C. will still be given priority in B.C. hospitals. "He's clearly wrong," he said. "They're not taking precedence. How do we know they're not taking precedence? Because he's cancelling surgeries for British Columbians and offering them to people in Saskatchewan."

Record levels of surgery: Falcon

Falcon said it is "nonsense" to say offering surgeries to people from other provinces is only possible because of the cancellations. "We will still be undertaking record levels of surgical procedures in British Columbia," he said.

Falcon said the B.C. government has reduced surgical wait times since 2001. The median wait for a knee replacement in 2001-2002 was 25.4 weeks, according to a chart provided by a ministry official. By 2008-2009 that was down to 13 weeks. The wait time for hip replacements decreased over the same period from 18.7 weeks to 10 weeks.

Similarly, Falcon said, the number of hip and knee replacements done in the province has doubled over the same period.

Bringing in people from Saskatchewan won't slow access to surgery for British Columbian's, he said. "Obviously I wouldn't do it if it was going to slow down the wait list."

Offering surgical spaces for sale while British Columbians are waiting is a bad precedent for public health care, said Dix. "The order of surgery in our public hospitals should be based on medical need. That has always been the abiding principle in British Columbia, until perhaps the Falcon era."

As the NDP's John Horgan, MLA for Juan de Fuca, put it in question period, "Only in Liberal bizarro world would cancelled surgeries be good news for British Columbians. George Orwell would be proud of the minister for that remark."

The Tyee ? Province Wants to Sell Surgeries to Saskatchewan

So from this article it looks like one cannot get non-emergency surgery in another province.
 
Look, the only time some Americans give a **** about Canada is when something happens here that helps their point of view!

yup

The rest of the time they probably don't care and likely don't know much about this country.


nope

Right-wingers who are opposed to government health care cherry pick the bad stuff, or downsides, and ignore all the good things about Canada's universal health care system.

This isn't cherry picking. This is delicious hypocrisy.

I'm tired of my country being the whipping boy for partisan American interests!

Then move

Do we do some things better than the US?

Yes, you complain better.

Are we perfect? No.

No argument.

We know we have problems that need to be sorted out, but we're trying to deal with them. /rant

No, you sent Jim Carry here. That's not dealing with your problems. Its exporting them.
 
Yes, you complain better.

There's enough whining going on in this forum by Americans that tells me otherwise. ;)

No, you sent Jim Carry here. That's not dealing with your problems. Its exporting them.

Complete non sequitur, fail.
 
Last edited:
There's enough whining going on in this forum by Americans that tells me otherwise. ;)

Complete non sequitur, fail.

Obviously you never saw Ace Ventura Pet Detective.
 
Why not go to another province?

My best guess is because it is an experimental procedure that Health Canada hasn't approved yet or it isn't performed by many people outside of the expert he's seeing.
 
Last edited:
A part of the article that should have been bolded but conveniently wasn't:

Article said:
"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.

He is choosing the best known doctor in the field, and that doctor is in the U.S., a place where Canada's UHC has no reach. He's not going there because Canada lacks the surgeons, the health care, or the resources; he's going to the person he thinks will give him the best chance of survival. It's all any of us would do in his shoes.
 
"It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province," said Ms. Dunderdale, refusing to answer whether the procedure could be done elsewhere in Canada.
 
"It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province," said Ms. Dunderdale, refusing to answer whether the procedure could be done elsewhere in Canada.

That doesn't mean he's not eligible. It means that there might not be the proper facility there. NL is one of the most undeveloped provinces in Canada.

As for why he didn't go to another province instead of going to the U.S., you'd have to ask him. Until we know why, anything more is just an assumption.
 
Good thing he can afford it, hm? Too bad Americans who have the same problem can't get the kind of health care this guy can get.

America: The best health care system in the world -- as long as you can afford it, that is.
 
Good thing he can afford it, hm? Too bad Americans who have the same problem can't get the kind of health care this guy can get.

America: The best health care system in the world -- as long as you can afford it, that is.

I'm more curious about why he didn't investigate other provinces, and went right to the U.S. Even though he carries a health card for NL, that card could still be used in other provinces. Plus he is a Premier... I'm sure that has to get him some access.

My feeling is that he just wanted the best of the best, who happens to reside in the U.S. It's the political forces which are trying to make this a statement of values about either country's health care.
 
I'm more curious about why he didn't investigate other provinces, and went right to the U.S. Even though he carries a health card for NL, that card could still be used in other provinces. Plus he is a Premier... I'm sure that has to get him some access.

My feeling is that he just wanted the best of the best, who happens to reside in the U.S. It's the political forces which are trying to make this a statement of values about either country's health care.

Hey, I think America has the best health care system too.

Just because I want a national health care policy so that everyone can take advantage of it doesn't mean I don't think we're the best (for those who can afford it).
 
Back
Top Bottom