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Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted

deltabtry said:
No it's not that I have a low opinion, it's that I have attended enough NJP's/court martial to know and not assume. Have your served?
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Like I said before, not much honor in the military. How pathetic is that?
 
danarhea said:
I don't know how many times I have heard the expression "Let's let the generals decide this issue". Well, the top general (actually, an admiral - same thing), has spoken. He is not only an Admiral, but is CHAIRMAN of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
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McCain just stated a thousand officers have signed a document that states... don't change it.

Here is the way I see it -

1) If someone wants to defend the United States against its enemies, I don't care if he or she is gay, or straight, or whatever. Besides, his or her sexual orientation is none of my damn business,
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Which is why they have don't ask, don't tell. The place is not a social experiment. It is a machine of disciplined destruction of our enemies through brutal force or espionage.

unless he or she is disrupting other troops by hitting on them. There are rules for that already in the military for straights. They will apply to gays too.
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You go into a sub, or battlefield quarters that are tighter than sardines in a can... not good when tensions are high.

2) If gays serve in the military, I will also thank them for their service, because I love my country, and I know they do too.
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I'd put them in secretarial positions with women.

To those who don't like the idea of gays serving in the military, you might as well prepare to accept it. It is going to happen sooner or later, and it is going to be a benefit to our military, rather than a liability.
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It is going to create tensions, it is going to foster political correctness to a sickening degree as it has with women in the military, and it will get more GI's killed. No long term benefits there unless you are a lib and think the place should be a social experiment.

Don't ask don't tell works... it weeds out the gays that create tension. Don't break what is working. It's not worth one American life.

.
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I guess they'll have to install shower curtains now.
 
deltabtry said:
Well I can see it now at the Marine Corps Ball, males bring their male dates and women bringing their women dates, yep this will go over like a wet rock. I really don't care what sexual preference people have non of my business really but, when something like this can effect the cohesiveness of a fighting unit, we will have problems.
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What needs to be done is to identify those who harbor such feelings of bigotry and kick them out of the military. They're the ones undermining the cohesiveness of a unit, not gays.
 
American said:
I guess they'll have to install shower curtains now.
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Why?

If they're already serving secretly, then they're already looking at your package openly and you'll think nothing of it. Likewise, they'll also be concealing the fact that they have HIV for as long as possible, thereby exposing the rest of the unit.

Isn't secrecy wonderful?

btw, who's that guy watching you take a shower ..LOL :mrgreen:
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
What needs to be done is to identify those who harbor such feelings of bigotry and kick them out of the military. They're the ones undermining the cohesiveness of a unit, not gays.
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Wrong again, you idea's don't wash in the military. This isn't a civilian feel good PC world as everyone would like it to be.
 
zimmer said:
It is going to create tensions, it is going to foster political correctness to a sickening degree as it has with women in the military, and it will get more GI's killed. No long term benefits there unless you are a lib and think the place should be a social experiment.
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This is bs. It also is not true. :mrgreen: I discovered a guy who I worked very closely with was gay when I sat next to him one day while on Sick Call. Quite an eye opening conversation. He then told me of many others who I was unaware of. NONE of these folks, men and women, ever caused any kind of problem in the slightest. We all acted professionally and allowed each other to have their own space. I always wonder what inner demons people must have that don't allow them to do the same.

Don't ask don't tell works... it weeds out the gays that create tension. Don't break what is working. It's not worth one American life.
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And what about the time BEFORE their gayness is found out? There was no TENSION then. Why all of a sudden would there be TENSION only AFTER they are outted?

Sorry. Your argument is full of holes.
 
deltabtry said:
Wrong again, you idea's don't wash in the military. This isn't a civilian feel good PC world as everyone would like it to be.
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Too bad, but bigotry is outdated and it's time for the military to grow up and join the human race.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Why?

If they're already serving secretly, then they're already looking at your package openly and you'll think nothing of it. Likewise, they'll also be concealing the fact that they have HIV for as long as possible, thereby exposing the rest of the unit.

Isn't secrecy wonderful?

btw, who's that guy watching you take a shower ..LOL :mrgreen:
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Probably you.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Too bad, but bigotry is outdated and it's time for the military to grow up and join the human race.
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Not likely considering what the military does, joining the human race will have to be put on hold until ones enlistment is done.
 
ADK_Forever said:
This is bs. It also is not true. :mrgreen: I discovered a guy who I worked very closely with was gay when I sat next to him one day while on Sick Call. Quite an eye opening conversation. He then told me of many others who I was unaware of. NONE of these folks, men and women, ever caused any kind of problem in the slightest. We all acted professionally and allowed each other to have their own space. I always wonder what inner demons people must have that don't allow them to do the same.



And what about the time BEFORE their gayness is found out? There was no TENSION then. Why all of a sudden would there be TENSION only AFTER they are outted?

Sorry. Your argument is full of holes.
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I am sure there are situations where things are just peachy but as a whole..it's not good. You being in the military should know this. Individuals incidents or aquaintainces can happen on a good note but be stuck with your peers as a group, diffrerent story.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Why?

If they're already serving secretly, then they're already looking at your package openly and you'll think nothing of it. Likewise, they'll also be concealing the fact that they have HIV for as long as possible, thereby exposing the rest of the unit.

Isn't secrecy wonderful?

btw, who's that guy watching you take a shower ..LOL :mrgreen:
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Next you will demand hate crimes in the military
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Too bad, but bigotry is outdated and it's time for the military to grow up and join the human race.
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Even if people die, or the effectiveness of our combat units are undermined?
 
Ethereal said:
Even if people die, or the effectiveness of our combat units are undermined?
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Why would the effectiveness of our combat units be undermined?

The vast majority of the military support ending the ban.

Even Navy Pride....one of the most right-wing people on this board provided this link which shows that the military support ending the ban on gays in the military:


Servicemembers Legal Defense Network


Military Attitudes
73 percent of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays (Zogby International, 2006).
The younger generations, those who fight America's 21st century wars, largely don't care about whether someone is gay or not-and they do not link job performance with sexual orientation.
One in four U.S. troops who served in Afghanistan or Iraq knows a member of their unit who is gay (Zogby, 2006).
The Public Overwhelmingly Supports Lifting the Ban
Majorities of weekly churchgoers (60 percent), conservatives (58 percent), and Republicans (58 percent) now favor repeal (Gallup, 2009).
Seventy-five percent of Americans support gays serving openly - up from just 44 percent in 1993 (ABC News/Washington Post, 2008).
Ban Hurts Military Readiness
The U.S. must recruit and retain the greatest number of the best and brightest-especially during two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The military has discharged almost 800 mission-critical troops and at least 59 Arabic and nine Farsi linguists under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the last five years.
 
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deltabtry said:
I am sure there are situations where things are just peachy but as a whole..it's not good. You being in the military should know this. Individuals incidents or aquaintainces can happen on a good note but be stuck with your peers as a group, diffrerent story.
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Waddaya mean? You wouldn't be able to carry on a conversation with "Jim" at the pub because you wouldn't be able to stop thinking about... "Jim"? BTW, I'm a civilian now. There are homophobes in groups of people all over. The military is no different. I wrestled with a gay guy on our high school team. It didn't bother many people too long... after he put you on the mat and you realized if you didn't move you'ld get pinned. Nowadays girls wrestle on high school teams. Last year a girl won the Section 2 title (Class C or D school) in New York State. She was pretty impressive. My son's friend lost to a girl last night. Kids learn fast that she's only after the same thing you are... the win. People can get over all kinds of bigotry. They just have to try.

This crap has been gotten over everywhere around the military. Now it's the military's turn. I am so impressed that those Generals came out to repeal DADT. It is the most discriminatory law I've ever heard of.
 
ADK_Forever said:
Waddaya mean? You wouldn't be able to carry on a conversation with "Jim" at the pub because you wouldn't be able to stop thinking about... "Jim"? BTW, I'm a civilian now. There are homophobes in groups of people all over. The military is no different. I wrestled with a gay guy on our high school team. It didn't bother many people too long... after he put you on the mat and you realized if you didn't move you'ld get pinned. Nowadays girls wrestle on high school teams. Last year a girl won the Section 2 title (Class C or D school) in New York State. She was pretty impressive. My son's friend lost to a girl last night. Kids learn fast that she's only after the same thing you are... the win. People can get over all kinds of bigotry. They just have to try.

This crap has been gotten over everywhere around the military. Now it's the military's turn. I am so impressed that those Generals came out to repeal DADT. It is the most discriminatory law I've ever heard of.
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I would have been more impressed if Captains and 1st sergeants came out and said it...not generals. The generals for the most part are detached from the inner working of daily routine on a enlisted level.
 
deltabtry said:
I would have been more impressed if Captains and 1st sergeants came out and said it...not generals. The generals for the most part are detached from the inner working of daily routine on a enlisted level.
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I think Generals have a better concept of what's going on than you give them credit for. Also they have the big picture in mind.
 
disneydude said:
Why would the effectiveness of our combat units be undermined?

The vast majority of the military support ending the ban.

Even Navy Pride....one of the most right-wing people on this board provided this link which shows that the military support ending the ban on gays in the military:


Servicemembers Legal Defense Network


Military Attitudes
73 percent of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays (Zogby International, 2006).
The younger generations, those who fight America's 21st century wars, largely don't care about whether someone is gay or not-and they do not link job performance with sexual orientation.
One in four U.S. troops who served in Afghanistan or Iraq knows a member of their unit who is gay (Zogby, 2006).
The Public Overwhelmingly Supports Lifting the Ban
Majorities of weekly churchgoers (60 percent), conservatives (58 percent), and Republicans (58 percent) now favor repeal (Gallup, 2009).
Seventy-five percent of Americans support gays serving openly - up from just 44 percent in 1993 (ABC News/Washington Post, 2008).
Ban Hurts Military Readiness
The U.S. must recruit and retain the greatest number of the best and brightest-especially during two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The military has discharged almost 800 mission-critical troops and at least 59 Arabic and nine Farsi linguists under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in the last five years.
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How about the military?

'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Turns 15 - TIME


But Americans in the military seem less friendly to the idea of junking the ban. A 2006 opinion poll by the independent Military Times newspapers showed that only 30% of those surveyed think openly gay people should serve, while 59% are opposed. "I don't think they'll succeed, but I think they'll try," Donnelly says of the Democrats' efforts to repeal the ban.
 
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