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Thousands protest in Tokyo against U.S. military presence in Japan

ScummyD said:
Another rank assumption on your part. I don't. Because we have one in Guam. :lol:
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I know. I've been there. Great strip clubs, let me tell you...

Look, these people protesting the US base at Okinawa is really inconsequential. Let them squeak all they want. The plans to reorient the US presence in the Pacific has already been in the works for sometime. The Japanese government, as one member in this thread already commented on, knows damn well they want a US presence in the Pacific.

When and if Japan meets its obligations to foot the bill for the new base construction, then the US will shift the main brunt of its presence.


. . .

However, the whole plan could collapse if Japan fails to build a replacement for a busy Marine Corps air base on its southern island of Okinawa, a festering issue that one senior US military official acknowledged is fraught with difficulties. The buildup plan, to be carried out by 2014, represents a major realignment of US forces in the Pacific:

About 8,000 Marines are to be shifted 1,200 miles southeast, from Okinawa to Guam, making it the Corps' second largest permanent overseas staging and training area.

US Plans for Military Buildup Leave Guam Wary | CommonDreams.org​
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My concern isn't really the protesters. I saw them all the time when I was in Oki, so it's nothing new to me. My concern is our financial instability and the precarious position we've put ourselves in by perpetuating the mentality that it's the our responsibility to stabilize foreign regions.

I can't tell you for certain that a war wouldn't break out, but what I can tell you for certain is that the US will be just as safe as it was before we got rid of that worthless base.
 
Ethereal said:
And you have no evidential basis for claiming it needs to stay.
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What I have argued is that by definition deterrence appears non-essential when it works, and that threats to one's national interest are hard to assess and can rise relatively quickly, and that American leaders know far more about all this than you so your opinion doesn't amount to much when you have not even tendered a reasonable argument, and that in fact the issues surrounding Taiwan and N. Korea require attention, that preserving the peace is an active duty that is not free of cost, which is better provided the closer we are to the region for numerous reasons so far left unstated.

All you have said is that the base costs too much. That's it.

And it appears that you were unaware that the Japanese pay for a portion of the cost.

Yes, nobody can predict the future. Thanks for pointing that out.
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The point was to illustrate that your opinion isn't much. I realize none of us are privy to the real meat of the intelligence assessment, but you haven't even provided a reasonable argument. We have real interests at stake, as I have cited. Reducing our presence in the region is not a wise option. The buildup on Guam in recent years reflects this truth.

Anyway, according to your logic, we should build more bases on Okinawa.
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No, that most definitely does not follow necessarily from my comments.

How do you know we won't need them in the future? Wiser folks than yourself have been wrong, you know.
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There is quite a significant difference between thousands of US marines and their requisite materiel there now and none at all which would be the case under your views.

My knowledge about Okinawa comes from having been stationed there as a Marine, but that's neither here nor there. Fact remains, your argument amounts to nothing more than chicken-little scenarios that have no basis in reality.
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An empty claim. My position is very much based in reality and securely fastened to a foundation of reason and informed by history.

All you have presented so far is an opinion that we are spending too much.

Okay, then stop referencing WWII as if it were relevant.
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You explain a lot about your views with this comment.
 
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Ethereal said:
My concern isn't really the protesters. I saw them all the time when I was in Oki, so it's nothing new to me. My concern is our financial instability and the precarious position we've put ourselves in by perpetuating the mentality that it's the our responsibility to stabilize foreign regions.
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And my point is that this is the exact same excuse other people, top leaders in fact, have given in the past for neglecting their responsibilities to preserve the peace. That it cost too much.

It is not precarious to maintain an active base deep in the Pacific.

Whether you like it or not by virtue of our power we have a responsibility to work to preserve the peace. Shirking that duty will lead to situations which will be far more costly in both capital and lives to correct, as history well proves.

And "the mentality that it's our responsibility to stabilize foreign regions" is firmly based on the fact that we are no longer living in a world where we can afford to allow conflagrations to erupt and expect to avoid the repercussions. We are not insulated from these issues as we once were. Active management is less costly than later clean up missions once the **** has already hit the fan and splattered across the globe.

I can't tell you for certain that a war wouldn't break out, but what I can tell you for certain is that the US will be just as safe as it was before we got rid of that worthless base.
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Okay. I'm not sure I agree and I haven't seen you say anything that would suggest it, but I understand what you are saying.
 
zimmer said:
Something for Obama to cave on. To show we are no longer evil.

.
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Get Kim Dung Ill on the phone, we need another missile launched. :lol: We'll have those Japanese waving American flags in no time.
 
We should close the base. Japan does not need our military assistance. It is a waste of time and resources for America. Nobody is going to invade Japan. The entire WORLD, not just the US, would come to their defense.
 
You guys are forgetting the all important lobbying power of the "Mama-Sans" to keep Marines and other US forces on Okinawa.
 
washunut said:
Why not leave and save the money we don't have.
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So we can just end up with the same scenario that we had in 1940? How much did WW2 cost?

I got an idea: let's stop pissing money away on social programs that don't work and turtle tunnels and spend it more wisely.
 
apdst said:
So we can just end up with the same scenario that we had in 1940? How much did WW2 cost?

I got an idea: let's stop pissing money away on social programs that don't work and turtle tunnels and spend it more wisely.
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Seems like a silly arguement. How are a few tropps in Japan going to prevent WWIII.

People seem to think we can keep spending money and let our kids pick up the tab. I find that amoral. People have to say I agree on reducing spending, except on what I think we need to spend on!!
 
washunut said:
Seems like a silly arguement. How are a few tropps in Japan going to prevent WWIII.
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How many troops did we have in the region prior to WW2? None, right?

People seem to think we can keep spending money and let our kids pick up the tab. I find that amoral. People have to say I agree on reducing spending, except on what I think we need to spend on!!
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I hope you're not one of those cats that support Obamacare and the porkulus package.
 
apdst said:
How many troops did we have in the region prior to WW2? None, right?



I hope you're not one of those cats that support Obamacare and the porkulus package.
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No I do not support either. I have an 18 year old son. I do not him to grow up in a nation that has trillions of foreign debt because of his dad's generation of wasteful spending.
 
Still protesting this, are they? Shoot, they've been protesting our presence on Okinawa since the 60's. Maybe one day they'll get their wish.
 
apdst said:
So we can just end up with the same scenario that we had in 1940? How much did WW2 cost?
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Please explain how conditions in the world right now are similar to those before WWII?
 
We have bases in South Korea (where we're wanted) and Hawaii. I don't see the need for Japanese bases. Let them handle their own damn business...and pay for it.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
We have bases in South Korea (where we're wanted) and Hawaii. I don't see the need for Japanese bases. Let them handle their own damn business...and pay for it.
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BTW why should we have troops in Korea. At a minimum if it is to protect Korea shouldn't they pay for it?
 
apdst said:
How many troops did we have in the region prior to WW2? None, right?
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That reasoning has no basis in fact. Based on your line of thought we should have US troops in every country to prevent them from going to war with us. Is that what you're suggesting? If not then please explain.

Whether or not we had troops in Japan prior to WWII had no bearing on that war. If we had tried to put troops in Japan in the 1930's it would have STARTED a war.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
We have bases in South Korea (where we're wanted) and Hawaii. I don't see the need for Japanese bases. Let them handle their own damn business...and pay for it.
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If the ballon goes up in Korea, are we going to support those forces from Hawaii? That won't work.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
We have bases in South Korea (where we're wanted) and Hawaii. I don't see the need for Japanese bases. Let them handle their own damn business...and pay for it.
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Whether we're wanted or not is irrelevant. Now if South Korea is footing the entire bill for our military presence there then fine, let'em pay for it. But if they're not footing the bill we should leave and cut back our military presence and national debt wherever we can.
 
apdst said:
If the ballon goes up in Korea, are we going to support those forces from Hawaii? That won't work.
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Paranoia is not a sound basis for a military policy.
 
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I think we'd get along fine without bases in Japan, frankly.
 
If the Japanese don't want us there, then leaving should definitely be considered. However, if they do, we probably don't want to piss them off, especially considering that we're as much in debt to them as to China.
 
Winnb said:
That reasoning has no basis in fact. Based on your line of thought we should have US troops in every country to prevent them from going to war with us. Is that what you're suggesting? If not then please explain.
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The point is, that our absence on the world scene allowed conditions to ripen for WW2 to get kicked off.

Whether or not we had troops in Japan prior to WWII had no bearing on that war. If we had tried to put troops in Japan in the 1930's it would have STARTED a war.
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Umm, gee! What did not stopping in the 1930's accomplish?...:rofl
 
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