Thousands protest in Tokyo against U.S. military presence in Japan

[zimmer]

Thousands protest in Tokyo against U.S. military presence in Japan

Thousands of protesters from across Japan marched today in Tokyo to protest against U.S. military presence on Okinawa, while a Cabinet minister said she would fight to get rid of a marine base Washington considers crucial.

Read more: Thousands protest in Tokyo against U.S. military presence in Japan | Mail Online

Something for Obama to cave on. To show we are no longer evil.

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[Dav]

Something tells me that in the end, it will be Japan who caves in. People may bitch about our military presence, but I think that they ultimately realize that if we don't protect them, they'd have to get their acts together and start protecting themselves.

 

[Ethereal]

Something for Obama to cave on. To show we are no longer evil.

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We should leave. The Marine base on Okinawa is a waste of money.

 

[Coronado]

Something for Obama to cave on. To show we are no longer evil.

.

Good. One less wasteful thing to pay for.

 

[samsmart]

Good. One less wasteful thing to pay for.

And one more thing for China to move in on.

 

[Coronado]

And one more thing for China to move in on.

Ever heard of ICBM's?

 

[TheGirlNextDoor]

Something for Obama to cave on. To show we are no longer evil.

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We don't need to be there. What a waste of money and resources. Let them have at it.. pack up our guys and gals and get the hell out.

 

[AgentM]

We don't need to be there. What a waste of money and resources. Let them have at it.. pack up our guys and gals and get the hell out.

I agree, it's not needed anymore.

 

[ScummyD]

Ever heard of ICBM's?

Yeah, but to use those the CIC actually has to have balls.

But hell, I'm sure a good groveling bow will do better.

And one more thing for China to move in on.

They could also move in on and eat a nice fat loan default, too, if they wish.

We should leave. The Marine base on Okinawa is a waste of money.

Preservation of peace is not free and requires active involvement and strategic planning. The world's most costly and deadly war came about fueled in part by the very same type of sentiment as you express here.

And my comment to AgentM also applies to this remark.

. . . if we don't protect them, they'd have to get their acts together and start protecting themselves.

Indeed. Our presence is in fact subsidizing their country and allowing them to funnel more money into other avenues of endeavor like social welfare programs rather than on defense, which would otherwise not be possible.

I agree, it's not needed anymore.

This is always the easiest argument to make. And the one that always feels the best.

The reason the base is there is deterrence, which by definition never appears to be needed if it's successful in accomplishing it's goal.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Good. One less wasteful thing to pay for.

Just thinking...but doesn't Japan pay for the base out of their own money?

 

[Ethereal]

Preservation of peace is not free and requires active involvement and strategic planning. The world's most costly and deadly war came about fueled in part by the very same type of sentiment as you express here.

A war will not break out because we shut down a nothing base in Okinawa.

 

[AgentM]

The reason it's there is deterrence, which by definition never appears to be needed if it's successful in accomplishing it's goal.

Deterrence against China? Yeah, China is totally gonna invade Japan. That's not really a good argument "But but China might invade Japan...it could happen..."

 

[ScummyD]

Deterrence against China? Yeah, China is totally gonna invade Japan. That's not really a good argument "But but China might invade Japan...it could happen..."

Who ever said anything about China invading?

But since you mentioned the 'I' word let me note that the Allied powers prior to WWII never thought Germany was going to do anything either. So you'll have to excuse me if I find no value in your opinion here.

"Hitler, I am convinced, does not want a war. He is susceptible to reason in matters of foreign policy. He is greatly anxious to make Germany self-respecting and is himself anxious to be respectable. He may be described as the most moderate member of his party."

John Wheeler Wheeler-Bennett speaking to the Royal Institute of International Affairs in 1933​

 

[ScummyD]

A war will not break out because we shut down a nothing base in Okinawa.

From your mouth to God's ear.

Wiser men than yourself have made grave miscalculations. So you'll have to excuse me if I find no value in your opinion here.

"Why should there be a war with Japan? I do not believe there is the slightest chance of it in our lifetime. . .War with Japan is not a possibility that any reasonable government need to take into account."

Winston Churchill 1924

* * * * *​

"There has scarcely been a period in the world's history when war seems less likely than it does at present."

Lord Robert Cecil of Britain addressing the League of Nations two weeks prior to Japan's invasion of Manchuria in 1931.

​

 

[Ethereal]

From your mouth to God's ear.

Wiser men than yourself have made grave miscalculations. So you'll have to excuse me if I find no value in your opinion here.

"Why should there be a war with Japan? I do not believe there is the slightest chance of it in our lifetime. . .War with Japan is not a possibility with Japan that any reasonable government need to take into account."

Winston Churchill 1924

* * *​

"There has scarcely been a period in the world's history when war seems less likely than it does at present."

Lord Robert Cecil of Britain addressing the League of Nations two weeks prior to Japan's invasion of China in 1931.

​

Sorry, but "anything could happen" is not a valid argument.

The base in Okinawa isn't stopping any wars from breaking out, and the Japanese people don't want it in their country.

Shut the place down and send the Marines to Afghanistan.

 

[ScummyD]

Sorry, but "anything could happen" is not a valid argument.

This is not a valid argument:

"A war will not break out because we shut down a nothing base in Okinawa."​

The base in Okinawa isn't stopping any wars from breaking out,

Still not a valid argument.

and the Japanese people don't want it in their country.

Here is a valid point, but one not addressing the important issue at hand.

 

[Ethereal]

This is not a valid argument:

"A war will not break out because we shut down a nothing base in Okinawa."​

Still not a valid argument.

The Marine base in Okinawa is not the reason other countries don't attack Japan - it just isn't. If you want to pretend that this is the case, then be my guest.

Here is a valid point, but one not addressing the important issue at hand.

Apparently, the Japanese people aren't as concerned about the possibility of war as you are. Do you know something they don't?

 

[ScummyD]

The Marine base in Okinawa is not the reason other countries don't attack Japan - it just isn't. If you want to pretend that this is the case, then be my guest.

Like AgentM, you are making assumptions about my position if not creating strawmen. I never said anything about the base on Okinawa preventing attacks on Japan. Surely the American military bases around the world are not in the locations they are for the sole purpose of defending the nation they are located in.

Apparently, the Japanese people aren't as concerned about the possibility of war as you are. Do you know something they don't?

And little if any of the people of the Allied powers prior to WWII were concerned about Germany and Hitler attacking them either and we all know how that turned out.

 

[ScummyD]

It's just funny how you two, AgentM and Ethereal, just seem to assume the base is there only to protect Japan.

Have you never heard of the issues with China and Taiwan and about the rogue state of N. Korea??? Just to name the most visible tensions in that arena of competition.

 

[Ethereal]

Like AgentM, you are making assumptions about my position if not creating strawmen. I never said anything about the base on Okinawa preventing attacks on Japan. Surely the American military bases around the world are not in the locations they are for the sole purpose of defending the nation they are located in.

We can no longer afford to maintain military bases all over the world. We need to start looking at the non-essential ones and decommissioning them. The Marine base in Okinawa is just a way-station for MEU's. The regional force projection is no longer worth the cost, especially when we have other equally efficacious deterrents at our disposal. Moreover, the region itself is quite stable and there is little reason to believe that will change anytime in the near future. Your constant refrain of "anything could happen" is not a sound reason for spending billions of dollars to maintain a military presence on foreign soil, especially when our country faces financial insolvency.

And little if any of the people of the Allied powers prior to WWII were concerned about Germany and Hitler attacking them either and we all know how that turned out.

Who should the Japanese be concerned about? Last time I checked, there wasn't an insane dictator amassing an army at their borders.

Oh wait! I forgot...anything could happen...

 

[Ethereal]

It's just funny how you two, AgentM and Ethereal, just seem to assume the base is there only to protect Japan.

Have you never heard of the issues with China and Taiwan and about the rogue state of N. Korea??? Just to name the most visible tensions in that arena of competition.

And it's funny how you think we cannot address those problems unless we have a Marine base in Okinawa. Tell me, what purpose do you think it's serving or could serve that could not be similarly effectuated in its absence?

 

[ScummyD]

We can no longer afford to maintain military bases all over the world. We need to start looking at the non-essential ones and decommissioning them. The Marine base in Okinawa is just a way-station for MEU's. . . .Your constant refrain of "anything could happen" is not a sound reason for spending billions of dollars to maintain a military presence on foreign soil, especially when our country faces financial insolvency.

Then I don't suppose you know anything of Guam and what is happening there and how Japan ties into that. If you did I suspect you would have mentioned it.

The regional force projection is no longer worth the cost,

Your opinion. And one with so far no evidential basis.

Moreover, the region itself is quite stable and there is little reason to believe that will change anytime in the near future.

I have already shown how some of the greatest statesmen in history said much the same thing of Japan and Germany and were dead wrong. Dead wrong.

So your opinion means next to nothing to say the least. When they were making those comments I quoted they were based on the wealth of information they were privy to as top national leaders and yet they still blew it. The only thing you have access to is what you scrounge up off the Internet. Your opinion carries no weight. I trust American and Japanese leaders over you. Especially since you haven't provided anything of evidence to back your stated view.

Who should the Japanese be concerned about? Last time I checked, there wasn't an insane dictator amassing an army at their borders.

Again, you are putting up a strawman argument by suggesting with your continual mention of the Japanese and their security that the base on Okinawa is there solely to protect Japan. It's not. And I never said it was.

 

[ScummyD]

And it's funny how you think we cannot address those problems unless we have a Marine base in Okinawa. Tell me, what purpose do you think it's serving or could serve that could not be similarly effectuated in its absence?

Another rank assumption on your part. I don't. Because we have one in Guam. :lol:

Look, these people protesting the US base at Okinawa is really inconsequential. Let them squeak all they want. The plans to reorient the US presence in the Pacific has already been in the works for sometime. The Japanese government, as one member in this thread already commented on, knows damn well they want a US presence in the Pacific.

When and if Japan meets its obligations to foot the bill for the new base construction, then the US will shift the main brunt of its presence.

. . .

However, the whole plan could collapse if Japan fails to build a replacement for a busy Marine Corps air base on its southern island of Okinawa, a festering issue that one senior US military official acknowledged is fraught with difficulties. The buildup plan, to be carried out by 2014, represents a major realignment of US forces in the Pacific:

About 8,000 Marines are to be shifted 1,200 miles southeast, from Okinawa to Guam, making it the Corps' second largest permanent overseas staging and training area.

US Plans for Military Buildup Leave Guam Wary | CommonDreams.org​

 

[ScummyD]

Just thinking...but doesn't Japan pay for the base out of their own money?

Yes.

By treaty with Tokyo, more than 50,000 US troops are stationed throughout Japan, which pays billions of dollars each year to support them, more than any other country with a US base on its territory.​

From the cited source above.

 

[Ethereal]

Then I don't suppose you know anything of Guam and what is happening there and how Japan ties into that. If you did I suspect you would have mentioned it.

Stop being cute and just come out with it. What about Guam? We have a Naval station there, is that what you're talking about?

Your opinion. And one with so far no evidential basis.

And you have no evidential basis for claiming it needs to stay. I guess we'll just have to let the readers decide for themselves whether or not the nothing base that the Japanese people want gone is worth the cost.

I have already shown how some of the greatest statesmen in history said much the same thing of Japan and Germany and were dead wrong. Dead wrong.

Yes, nobody can predict the future. Thanks for pointing that out.

Anyway, according to your logic, we should build more bases on Okinawa. How do you know we won't need them in the future? Wiser folks than yourself have been wrong, you know.

So your opinion means next to nothing to say the least. When they were making those comments I quoted they were based on the wealth of information they were privy to as top national leaders and yet they still blew it. The only thing you have access to is what you scrounge up off the Internet. Your opinion carries no weight. I trust American and Japanese leaders over you. Especially since you haven't provided anything of evidence to back your stated view.

My knowledge about Okinawa comes from having been stationed there as a Marine, but that's neither here nor there. Fact remains, your argument amounts to nothing more than chicken-little scenarios that have no basis in reality.

Again, you are put up a strawman argument by suggesting with your continual mention of the Japanese and their security that the base on Okinawa is there solely to protect Japan. It's not. And I never said it was.

Okay, then stop referencing WWII as if it were relevant.