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First Poll after SOTU shows very high approval

Why do you bother calling yourself a libertarian when it's obvious that you are a Democrat?
 
CBS poll is fake from the word go. Look at this from 1 hour ago; The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 25% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17.

This as bad as Obama has done in a real poll. He once again said me or I over 100 times. This guy's is so full of shiitte his eye are brown.

In his latest BS speech Obama has said the same lies and misstated the facts as he always does.

You're going to have to look long and hard to find anyone in history with worse record. Fact is you can save yourself the effort bacause he is without a doubt tha worst ever and it will be along time before there is anyone as bad.

The first Black man in the office has made it near impossible for another to be elected, and the is thing is, it's not because he's half black. It's because he's an incompetent amateur.

When reality finally sets in that you can't cover a lie with a bigger one people like Chris Mathews and Kieth Obermann will going the unemployment ranks and ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN, will join the the Obamedia New Papers going out of business.

Wake up America Obama is Anti-American and he is taught by the Cult he was raised in that to lie to infidels is rewarded. Nothing he says or does is true or in the best interest of WE THE PEOPLE, unless you're a Liberal Socialist/Communist who also hates what America was founded on.
 
gopman said:
The dollar statement is odd and cryptic.
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As was its intention;) Stimulus dollars combined with a decreasing marginal propensity to consume foreign goods gives a better multiplier. I was just testing your awareness.

There was a decline in dollar value as foreign investors exited from treasuries they had rushed into during the panic days of the recession. I don't know what that has to do with Obama's policy.
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Partly. We also began printing quite a bit of those damn dollars;)

Psychological effects like long term interest rates floating up until the fed started buying longer dated treasuries instead of just acting in the repo market like they normally do? No I don't deny those.
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If you want to discuss monetary policy, then by all means. However i believe the initial discussion was centered on fiscal policy with a very small underpinning of monetary policy.

Gov'ment does nothing, people panic. End of story!
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Cyclical unemployment tends to lag overall market sentiment. After firms shore up their balance sheets, they will tend to invest in capital first, and labor second (unless they can get a steal of a deal:2razz: ). Once capital investment plateaus, unemployment will go down.
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We've been hearing how unemployment is a lagging indicator for months now and all it seems to be doing is going up.





But what is the end result of higher prices?
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In a recession? It means fewer purchses.



What did the government do during WWII? Did it create jobs?
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So, you advocate starting a global war?



Opinionated :spin:
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Nope! Sorry.



I made a thread yesterday, you must not have been reading to closely....

Here is a nice link here ya go
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You gave us Christmas numbers as proof of recovery? Of course the CCI is going to go up a measely four points in December.
 
gopman said:
Why do you bother calling yourself a libertarian when it's obvious that you are a Democrat?
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Why do you bother contemplating my political ideology when you haven't the slightest clue of where it stems?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Why do you bother contemplating my political ideology when you haven't the slightest clue of where it stems?
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I know! I know! Its libertarian!!! Do I win a prize?
 
apdst said:
So, you advocate starting a global war?
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I think it would also be appropriate to ask what happened to private sector employment during World War 2. A libertarian would know that the government can't create jobs out of fairy dust- they can take from one party and give to another, and the process is much less efficient than the private market.
 
gopman said:
Well the last one worked perfectly. $800B of political patronage was a dream come true for Obama. Forget about the unemployment rate, it doesn't mean anything, even though 7 million jobs were lost, we actually created 2 million. Why wouldn't we do that again?
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Would it have been worse without the stimulus? I know here some jobs are still here because of the stimulus, not to mention a smaller increase in tuition for students.

As for the two million number:

Obama claims 2 million more Americans would be unemployed if not for stimulus

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"I would say that he (Obama) is in the ballpark," Faucher said. "It may be a little high, but not ridiculously high."

But, he warned, these numbers are all just economic projections.

"By definition, this is an art, not a science," Faucher said.

And that's our biggest issue with Obama's definitive claim that if not for the stimulus, 2 million Americans working right now would otherwise be unemployed. It's a projection. Economists can't say for sure what would have happened if the stimulus had not passed; and whether those who got jobs through the stimulus would otherwise be unemployed. And while the number cited by Obama is backed up by the projections from his Council of Economic Advisers, it's on the high side of the projections from the CBO, and significantly higher than projections from several other economic forecasters. And so we rate Obama's claim Half True.

PolitiFact | Obama claims 2 million more Americans would be unemployed if not for stimulus
 
gopman said:
I think it would also be appropriate to ask what happened to private sector employment during World War 2. A libertarian would know that the government can't create jobs out of fairy dust- they can take from one party and give to another, and the process is much less efficient than the private market.
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Sorry but what warped form of reality is this?

First off it was the Government that made the demand for the private sector, not the consumer or the private sector.. unless you are a conspiracy nut that believes that Hitler was a private sector lackey that started a war that killed 10s of millions all so the private sector could earn a buck. It was the Government that funded most of the private sector then because it need arms. The consumer was not in the picture then and only came into the picture in the mid to late 1950s and that TOO was because of Government incentives like sending war veterans to college and the demand to rebuild after the war. Add to that, the fact that it was after the war the whole womens movement seriously got going and that teenagers got more freedom and very importantly... money.

Secondly, you also took millions of men out of the work force by sending them off to war. So are you advocating a draft that pumps up the US military to WW2 standards? That would solve the unemployment problem, but it would also cost a fortune.

Thirdly, women did not work in nearly the same amount as they do today. They were in fact "forced" onto the employment market because the men were off to war.. and this was to the reluctance of the highly male dominated private sector. Women wearing pants.. the scandal!

And finally, the technological advancement since make any comparison impossible. Back then you needed tons of people to build cars, tanks, planes and what not.. now you dont. You have robots and what not that have replaced quite a bit of the human activity that was around back then.
 
My God how many flavors does Obama Kool Aid come in?

Liberal are becoming famous for not thinking for themselves but it has gotten out of control when they fall for obvious lies and misstatements by a someone who has done not one good thing in over a year and still blames the laast administration for his failures.

Obama is an amateur with nothing to show for his waste of money. He saved no jobs and the only employment increases are in Government.

He wants to tax and spend us into a position where the Cloward and Piven model can work to help promote his Socialist Agenda.

If you're a proud Liberal supporter of Obama you are un-American who knows nothing about the values this Nation was founded on. Obama is the stupidest, most brainless idiot to ever hold the office and he is well on his way to replacing Jimmy Carter as blackest stain on the office in history. No pun intended.
 
Councilman said:
My God how many flavors does Obama Kool Aid come in?

Liberal are becoming famous for not thinking for themselves but it has gotten out of control when they fall for obvious lies and misstatements by a someone who has done not one good thing in over a year and still blames the laast administration for his failures.

Obama is an amateur with nothing to show for his waste of money. He saved no jobs and the only employment increases are in Government.

He wants to tax and spend us into a position where the Cloward and Piven model can work to help promote his Socialist Agenda.

If you're a proud Liberal supporter of Obama you are un-American who knows nothing about the values this Nation was founded on. Obama is the stupidest, most brainless idiot to ever hold the office and he is well on his way to replacing Jimmy Carter as blackest stain on the office in history. No pun intended.
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Are you actually responding to anybody?
 
gopman said:
I think it would also be appropriate to ask what happened to private sector employment during World War 2. A libertarian would know that the government can't create jobs out of fairy dust- they can take from one party and give to another, and the process is much less efficient than the private market.
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The biggest question that those folks can't answer is, "where's the money come from?" I've yet to hear the big government crowd answer that one.
 
apdst said:
How can a poll showing approval be accurate when Obama promised to push a bill that 80% of the country is opposed to and lied, saying that there's overwhelming evidence that global warming exists? Accurate my ass!
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80 %? Really? Rasmussin says you are way off. Accurate my ass....
 
gopman said:
Why do you bother calling yourself a libertarian when it's obvious that you are a Democrat?
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Who are you to determine what is a libertarian and what is a democrat?
 
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Redress said:
The difference though is one is the right number, and one is a made up number that is not even close to reality.
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Ok...and?

troll much?
 
apdst said:
In a recession? It means fewer purchases.
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Can you piece together why home sales are down? It is rare to have it both ways; near impossible when demand is in a funk.

So, you advocate starting a global war?
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Not at all. You claimed that government cannot create jobs, and i clearly pointed out a historical reference in which it did. How about when government appropriates money to build a nuclear power center, and then leases it to a private firm when it is complete? Does this create jobs?

Nope! Sorry.
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Health care inflation is very real....



You gave us Christmas numbers as proof of recovery? Of course the CCI is going to go up a measely four points in December.
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You are going to use a time series comment as a critique? APDST, you are in no position to do so given your historic record in discussions regarding economics and finance.

Do you even know what consumer confidence is? Here is the methodology:

The Index is based on responses to 5 questions included in the survey:

1. Respondents appraisal of current business conditions.
2. Respondents expectations regarding business conditions six months hence.
3. Respondents appraisal of the current employment conditions.
4. Respondents expectations regarding employment conditions six months hence.
5. Respondents expectations regarding their total family income six months hence.
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Bless your little heart:2wave:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Why do you bother contemplating my political ideology when you haven't the slightest clue of where it stems?
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Because it's easier to switch the debate to focus on you than it is to focus on the issue that's being discussed?:2wave:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Can you piece together why home sales are down? It is rare to have it both ways; near impossible when demand is in a funk.
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It's not rocket science: nobody has any money and the folks that do aren't spending it.



Not at all. You claimed that government cannot create jobs, and i clearly pointed out a historical reference in which it did. How about when government appropriates money to build a nuclear power center, and then leases it to a private firm when it is complete? Does this create jobs?
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The government didn't create jobs, in the case of WW2. The war created a demand for manpower. Without a war, how is the demand for manpower going to increase and more importantly, whose going to pay for it?

Bottom line is, only the private sector can create jobs and wealth.
 
apdst said:
It's not rocket science: nobody has any money and the folks that do aren't spending it.
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I am unimpressed by your lack of attention to detail. On purpose, i linked the BBC piece on US home prices and consumer confidence. :(

The government didn't create jobs, in the case of WW2. The war created a demand for manpower. Without a war, how is the demand for manpower going to increase and more importantly, whose going to pay for it?
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This part is even worse. Who went to war? The government or the private sector?

Bottom line is, only the private sector can create jobs and wealth.
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My issue is not the concept, as the private sector is the innovative engine for our economy. The bold highlights it. When monetary velocity decreases, government can help boost demand. I can prove it mathematically if you would like.:lol:
 
Councilman said:
Obama has come to the American people in his Hate of the Union Speech with so much B.S. it would be funny if it were not so blatantly counter to what he has done so far. He makes claims to do things that are clearly at odds with his goals. He will continue to do this if he is not shut down by the truth and what he does not what he claims he is doing.

Obama is without question Anti-American and he uses false claims of patriotism to promote his agenda of Socialism.
I ask you what has this Socialist/Communist done that makes sense and is in the true interests of America.
The answer is nothing.

While watching this propaganda speech I noted that C-Span was careful to show only 99% of the Dems in support of what was said.

No surprise there. The Dems are in decline because Obama and they will do what ever they can to promote this loser who has no track record of accomplishment in his life, other than the promotion of a socialist agenda in his work as a community organizer. He has supported the take over of industries in the same vane as Hugo Chavez.

I have never been a big fan of Glenn Beck but it is clear that he gets it right when he points out that Obama and Chavez are on the same game plan.

There ae some who will claim that Jesus is on the side of the Obama Liberals. But be ware thse people are simply lashing out.

Obama being a member of the cult of Islam is obligated to do or say what ever he has too to make his point and to do what ever he can to make his point regardless of the truth or the facts of his real agenda.
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Another steaming pant load of I hate him, I hate him, I hate him. :roll:
 
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Goldenboy219 said:
This part is even worse. Who went to war? The government or the private sector?
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Where did the manpower come from? Who did the hiring?



My issue is not the concept, as the private sector is the innovative engine for our economy. The bold highlights it. When monetary velocity decreases, government can help boost demand. I can prove it mathematically if you would like.:lol:
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I'd rather you show me one government in history that successfully created wealth, without a private sector. Of course the government can created demand, but not wealth and jobs.
 
megaprogman said:
The first poll after the SOTU shows high approval in pretty much all counts, except faith that he can implement his vision.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_SOTU_012710.pdf

I am curious about the results of the rest of the polls but it looks like they haven't been published yet.
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IMO -- President Obama is finally making a move toward the center. Because of the Democratic majority in congress, he became complacent about getting the legislative initiatives he wanted. Too many of them (on both sides) are perpetually running for office.

This year, there were many more instances of the Republicans joining the Democrats in applause support, especially on the nuclear energy and off-shore drilling.

Clean and safe nuclear energy would solve many problems, but it could potentially upend the coal and natural gas industries. Senators in those states will fight new nuclear plants tooth and nail. How do we transition to more efficient energy without putting a million people out of work?

The notion of eliminating capital gains taxes on 'small business' investments-- I'd like to hear more about exactly how that will work. Mutual funds will have to look for small businesses wanting to expand (hopefully hire on more people)...

Obama needs to be much more aggressive in seeking allies in the GOP. Find the common ground, a pragmatic center, and work from there. The Keynesian sandbags stopped a total collapse -- but the private sector has to now take the lead in rebuilding.

Bank regs -- what is so backwards about people refusing to accept this is we had nearly fifty years of regular and steady growth under depression era regulations. Does anybody listen to Elizabeth Warren??

Overall, there were some good ideas -- but let's see how they get implemented in an election year.
 
apdst said:
Where did the manpower come from? Who did the hiring?
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Governments (especially our government) do not operate under the premise of the "firm". Let me help you out a bit....

The theory of the firm consists of a number of economic theories which describe the nature of the firm, company, or corporation, including its existence, its behaviour, and its relationship with the market.
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm"]source[/ame]

Its never too late to learn something new:2wave:

Now, with that said, how does your comment negate anything i have stated?

I'd rather you show me one government in history that successfully created wealth, without a private sector. Of course the government can created demand, but not wealth and jobs.
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False dichotomy. I can ask you to show me what private sector has created wealth without the government. But doing so makes absolutely no sense. Demand creates wealth and jobs APDST....
 
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