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Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

apdst said:
Ok, when the military created co-ed units, did sexual harrassment incidents rise? They did, didn't they?

The same thing will happen with the abolition of DADT.
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Wow, your scientific method of comparing different situations with different variables to draw conclusions that they are the same is intriguing.

So basically you are saying the relationship between men and women is the exact same as the relationship between heterosexual men and homosexual men? Fascinating. You are very insightful. :roll:

What I love even more, is listening to people who think that political correctness and social experiments are more important than a functional military that is able to defend our nation, with as little combat loss as possible.
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I don't give a **** about social experiments or political correctness. As I have said before in this thread, my issue with this policy is purely that of national security. When you dismiss 300 Arab translators just because they are gay during a time of war when such translators are in short supply, then you are certain to miss vital intelligence. That is intelligence that could prevent needless deaths. Now maybe in your distorted world view, you could justify people dying for this policy, but I can't.
 
apdst said:
Well, as usual, you're only able to see things from a one demensional point of view. It's not going to be just gays committing sexual harrassment. It's going to be gay on gay, gay on straight, straight on gay, and so on. Just as likely, there are going to be gay on gay rapes, gay on straight rapes, straight on gay rapes, and that's not even taking into account the increased number of assaults that will take place. I think it's quite naive to believe that these scenarios won't exist.
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Which in no way invalidates what I said. The rate of sexual harassment will only rise if the number of people more likely to harass increases. Or, for the rate of sexual harassment to increase, gays have to be more likely to sexually harass people. Feel free to attempt to prove they are. Hint: quite a few gays in the military now, and for the most part, sexual harassment among gays is a nonissue handled at the command level.
 
apdst said:
What's th JDF?
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I think he meant IDF.

Edited to add: I had to look up JDF, and I don't think he meant the Jamaican defense force, or the Japanese Self Defense force, so IDF makes more sense.
 
Redress said:
Which in no way invalidates what I said. The rate of sexual harassment will only rise if the number of people more likely to harass increases. Or, for the rate of sexual harassment to increase, gays have to be more likely to sexually harass people. Feel free to attempt to prove they are. Hint: quite a few gays in the military now, and for the most part, sexual harassment among gays is a nonissue handled at the command level.
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You seem to be ingnoring the fact that 1) Gays are just as likely to commit sexual harrassment as straights and 2) Gays can be victims of sexual harrassment by straight soldiers, as well.

You're not including the human factor in your personal analysis of the broader picture.
 
apdst said:
You seem to be ingnoring the fact that 1) Gays are just as likely to commit sexual harrassment as straights and 2) Gays can be victims of sexual harrassment by straight soldiers, as well.

You're not including the human factor in your personal analysis of the broader picture.
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I am not ignoring or failing to figure any of that, but for the rate of harassment to increase, you need more people committing harassment. This is not a complicated concept.
 
apdst said:
Well, that's Israel, not the US. Two different breeds of people.
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Not as different as you might think. Not to mention, we could learn alot from the IDF, which is an incredibly effective service. Further, Canada, which is basically a suburb of the US, also has managed to integrate gays and straits, as has a fair number of other countries.
 
apdst said:
You seem to be ingnoring the fact that 1) Gays are just as likely to commit sexual harrassment as straights and 2) Gays can be victims of sexual harrassment by straight soldiers, as well.

You're not including the human factor in your personal analysis of the broader picture.
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And you seem to be ignoring that I just provided a reasoned argument for how this policy could be leading people to needlessly die. Now either you provide an argument for how this policy is saving more people than it is probably killing, or I think you need to concede that your little "sexual harassment" argument doesn't amount to **** compared to the lives of the men and women in the field and here at home.
 
Redress said:
Not as different as you might think. Not to mention, we could learn alot from the IDF, which is an incredibly effective service. Further, Canada, which is basically a suburb of the US, also has managed to integrate gays and straits, as has a fair number of other countries.
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When's the last time that the RCA was in a real battle?
 
CriticalThought said:
And you seem to be ignoring that I just provided a reasoned argument for how this policy could be leading people to needlessly die. Now either you provide an argument for how this policy is saving more people than it is probably killing, or I think you need to concede that your little "sexual harassment" argument doesn't amount to **** compared to the lives of the men and women in the field and here at home.
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How is DADT getting people killed?
 
apdst said:
How is DADT getting people killed?
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As I stated before but you ignored...

CriticalThought said:
I don't give a **** about social experiments or political correctness. As I have said before in this thread, my issue with this policy is purely that of national security. When you dismiss 300 Arab translators just because they are gay during a time of war when such translators are in short supply, then you are certain to miss vital intelligence. That is intelligence that could prevent needless deaths. Now maybe in your distorted world view, you could justify people dying for this policy, but I can't.
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apdst said:
You seem to be ingnoring the fact that 1) Gays are just as likely to commit sexual harrassment as straights and 2) Gays can be victims of sexual harrassment by straight soldiers, as well.

You're not including the human factor in your personal analysis of the broader picture.
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The same things were said about women serving in the military. Funny how the majority of woman serve without incidence.
 
When did this happen?

When you dismiss 300 Arab translators just because they are gay during a time of war when such translators are in short supply,
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And, do you think that those translators are the only Arabic speaking people in the country?
 
TheNextEra said:
The same things were said about women serving in the military. Funny how the majority of woman serve without incidence.
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A majority, but not all. Check out the link about the 80% sexual harassment rate in the IDF.
 
apdst said:
A majority, but not all. Check out the link about the 80% sexual harassment rate in the IDF.
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What is more important to you? Sexual harassment or the lives of people? Seriously, what the **** is up with your priorities?
 
CriticalThought said:
What is more important to you? Sexual harassment or the lives of people? Seriously, what the **** is up with your priorities?
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Soldiers's lives are far more important. That's why I think they should spend more time training and less time dealing with stupid ****. Nothing wrong with my priorities.

Still waiting on that link about the 300 translators.
 
apdst said:
When did this happen?
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Wow, you are incredibly uninformed. Over the course of our wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, 300 trained Arab speakers have been dismissed from our military simply for being gay. These are units that we paid to train and which are considered a vital intelligence unit. Over 14,000 people have been discharged under the military's DADT policy.

And, do you think that those translators are the only Arabic speaking people in the country?
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:rofl

Ok, I think you just destroyed any credibility you had in this discussion with that comment. You honestly don't even know why we have Arab translators in our military ranks. That is sad.
 
CriticalThought said:
Wow, you are incredibly uninformed. Over the course of our wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, 300 trained Arab speakers have been dismissed from our military simply for being gay. These are units that we paid to train and which are considered a vital intelligence unit. Over 14,000 people have been discharged under the military's DADT policy.
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Let's see a link proving that 300 Arabic translators were discharged under DADT, or admit that you're just making things up as you go. I'm thinking it's the latter.

Ok, I think you just destroyed any credibility you had in this discussion with that comment. You honestly don't even know why we have Arab translators in our military ranks. That is sad.
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Annnnnnd, where exactly did I say that? I didn't, did I?
 
apdst said:
Let's see a link proving that 300 Arabic translators were discharged under DADT, or admit that you're just making things up as you go. I'm thinking it's the latter.
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Um...I did. Here it is again.

Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist - Military- msnbc.com

But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills.
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Annnnnnd, where exactly did I say that? I didn't, did I?
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I'm just guessing your reading comprehension sucks.
 
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