• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

Crosscheck said:
Just like there is not suppose to be racism in the military. It has been 40 yrs since I was in but I bet most chow halls the blacks sit on one side and the whites sit on the other.
Click to expand...

No, it's not like that anymore. Different races actually mesh better in the military than the civilian world, I think. But there is still homophobia, that's for damn sure. I mean, a lot of Marines in my company called me a fag because I was once ordered by a senior Marine to say, "I'm gay", which I did. They never let me live that one down...
 
CriticalThought said:
I simply don't see how homophobia is any greater a justification for keeping gays out of the military than sexism was for keeping women out or racism was for keeping African Americans out. If it has presented any major problem to the 24 other countries that had allowed gays to openly serve, then I might be more concerned, but it seems to me that this is simply a bunch of people saying to let their prejudices and biases dictate the terms of national security and uniform conduct.
Click to expand...

Homophobia is a horrible justification for keeping DADT, but what that tells me is more time is needed to rid ourselves of the policy. We have made tremendous progress in the area of gay rights in this country, but not everything can happen as quickly as we like.

A few decades ago gays were immediately discharged from the military for their sexuality. No exceptions. Dishonorably discharged. Now they have to keep their sexuality hidden, but they may still serve.

A few decades before that gays were court martialed and imprisoned if they were discovered. I believe the maximum sentence was 5 years.

A few decades before that gays were considered mentality insane.

My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
 
CriticalThought said:
I presented a video of a guy with over a decade of experience disagreeing with you. Frankly, the problem with personal experience, is it can differ from person to person. That is why personal experience is not considered objective.
Click to expand...

1. Not all units are the same. That's why I think DADT should remain in place with discretion left to the commanders. If it's not a problem, then there's no need to kick them out.

2. He might not have been an infantry Marine. Not everyone is a grunt, you know...

So what makes your experience so much more valid that the guy who I presented in that video?
Click to expand...

It doesn't. I'm just saying it's not as black and white as you'd like it to be. What worked for his unit wouldn't work for the unit I was in.

To the contrary, I don't think prejudice and bias should dictate the terms of national security.
Click to expand...

I think national security should dictate the terms of national security. If DADT serves that end, then it should remain in place.

The fact that you have to use the word "agenda" when referring to a gay issue, kinda dispels any illusion that you are anything but partisan on this issue.
Click to expand...

You really are making no sense at all. What do I have to be partisan about? You think I hate gays or something?
 
Winnb said:
My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
Click to expand...

Hell, I'm not even saying I'm definitely right. I'm just telling you what I experienced. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I've yet to see anything that would prove this is the case. In the absence of evidence, I must differ to the old adage:

If ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Winnb said:
Homophobia is a horrible justification for keeping DADT, but what that tells me is more time is needed to rid ourselves of the policy. We have made tremendous progress in the area of gay rights in this country, but not everything can happen as quickly as we like.

A few decades ago gays were immediately discharged from the military for their sexuality. No exceptions. Dishonorably discharged. Now they have to keep their sexuality hidden, but they may still serve.

A few decades before that gays were court martialed and imprisoned if they were discovered. I believe the maximum sentence was 5 years.

A few decades before that gays were considered mentality insane.

My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
Click to expand...

Whoever said that the policy had to end tomorrow? There will be a gradual change if the policy is canceled. It isn't going to be initiated overnight.
 
Ethereal said:
Hell, I'm not even saying I'm definitely right. I'm just telling you what I experienced. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I've yet to see anything that would prove this is the case. In the absence of evidence, I must differ to the old adage:

If ain't broke, don't fix it.
Click to expand...

Maybe it is because you ignore all evidence to contrary, just like you ignored that video.

And it is certainly broken when 300 qualified translators are dismissed from the military just because they are gay during a war when there is a shortage of Arab translators. Imagine all the intelligence that could have been missed as a result and how many lives may have been saved with that intelligence.

That is what you get when you let prejudice dictate the terms of national security. People may have needlessly died because of this policy, but you could care less.
 
Last edited:
Ethereal said:
You really are making no sense at all. What do I have to be partisan about? You think I hate gays or something?
Click to expand...

I think you hate the idea of gays serving openly in the military.
 
Ethereal said:
This isn't helping. Nobody should be worried about gays trying to hit on them during training or combat. This is just a silly homophobic thing to say and undermines the credibility of valid objections to the repeal of DADT. If you're that worried about gay guys, then maybe you should get some help....
Click to expand...

Thank you for bolstering my position....
Loathing is not fear.....;)
I'm not worried about gay guys, just don't hit on me or publicly display your disgusting behavior......
As a straight guy, I can tell you DADT works for me.....;)
 
CriticalThought said:
Most men could care less one way or the other. Nice projecting your own homophobia though. Or do you actually have any statistics to back up that assertion?
Click to expand...

PFFFT.......:roll:
I won't offer one iota of statistics....
Try as you will, I will not accept homosexuality as anything but deviant & unnatural.....
Do it if you must, but I don't want to see it or & am tired of hearing about it....
I'm sure you didn't ask to be gay, no one said life is fair......:(
 
CriticalThought said:
You base your entire argument on a personal assumption. That is not objectivity and I find it hilarious that you expect people to consider your subjective opinion to be anything but subjective. But assuming you were right, then its clear that our military has a serious flaw in its professionalism that needs to be amended first with the end of this policy.

Most people are comfortable around gays, and considerably more polls than the one 70's guy presented indicates that much. Not that I think opinion polls should be used to dictate matters of national security.

The fact of the matter is you have no objective argument for keeping this policy, and so you are going to attack other people's objectivity to make up for it.
Click to expand...

How many people need to have a 'subjective feeling' before it is not considered subjective?.......:confused:
 
Navy Pride said:
And you couldn't either under the condittions I mentioned.It is useless to debate this with you because you won't admit when your wrong DD......No man could with stand the example I gave.........
Click to expand...

And yet....gay men do....Navy. There are thousands of gay men and women serving in the very conditions you are talking about...and unlike you....they are able to control their hormones.
 
CriticalThought said:
I think you hate the idea of gays serving openly in the military.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't hate anything but I know it would be very wrong for gays to serve openly in the military especially the Navy.......There would be a mass exodus of Senior officers and Chiefs leaving the Navy........There would be violence against openly gays............I am not saying that its right, I am just saying that is what would happen.........It could very easily destroy the very fabric of our military.....

Like I said before Liberals think our military should be used for social experimentation but that is not what its for.........Its to fight our wars and protect us..............

The Navy tried with women aboard combat ships and contrary to what has been published it has been a total failure.........Many women are getting pregnant and either having to leave their job to have the baby or be discharged leaving it for some poor guy to do her job and his to.......Its a failed social experiment just like gays serving openly would be.......

That is just the facts........
 
disneydude said:
And yet....gay men do....Navy. There are thousands of gay men and women serving in the very conditions you are talking about...and unlike you....they are able to control their hormones.
Click to expand...

You are clueless and know nothing about it DD............That is a fact........
 
Navy Pride said:
You are clueless and know nothing about it DD............That is a fact........
Click to expand...

Seems to me that YOU are the clueless one...even using your own words.

You claim that any straight man would immediately sexually assault a woman if placed in a similar situation to gay men or women on a boat in close quarters...


You claim that you....wouldn't be able to control your dick and would sexually assault....and "all men would do the same"....

And yet....gay men and women serve under the very conditions that you base your examples on....and don't sexually assault and rape their fellow soldiers.

So what is it Navy....

(1) Are you wrong?

(2) Are gay men and women able to control themseleves better than their straight counter parts?

(3) Are most men and women able to control their sexual behavior (unlike you)?


Which is it Navy?
 
disneydude said:
Seems to me that YOU are the clueless one...even using your own words.

You claim that any straight man would immediately sexually assault a woman if placed in a similar situation to gay men or women on a boat in close quarters...


You claim that you....wouldn't be able to control your dick and would sexually assault....and "all men would do the same"....

And yet....gay men and women serve under the very conditions that you base your examples on....and don't sexually assault and rape their fellow soldiers.

So what is it Navy....

(1) Are you wrong?

(2) Are gay men and women able to control themseleves better than their straight counter parts?

(3) Are most men and women able to control their sexual behavior (unlike you)?


Which is it Navy?
Click to expand...

There have been thousands of discharges since DADT was instittued in 1993........Do you understand the word OPENLY?
 
Navy Pride said:
There have been thousands of discharges since DADT was instittued in 1993........Do you understand the word OPENLY?
Click to expand...

No where near the numbers that would support your claim that gay men and women couldn't control their hormones.

Most discharges have occurred because of verbal violations...not conduct violations.

Why don't you just admit it Navy. We know that you have said that your can't control your dick. But most gay men and gay women serving in the military have been able to control themselves and have served this country honorably.

Why make them lie so that they can serve this country?
 
disneydude said:
No where near the numbers that would support your claim that gay men and women couldn't control their hormones.

Most discharges have occurred because of verbal violations...not conduct violations.

Why don't you just admit it Navy. We know that you have said that your can't control your dick. But most gay men and gay women serving in the military have been able to control themselves and have served this country honorably.

Why make them lie so that they can serve this country?
Click to expand...

Again you are wrong.....There have been thousand of people who violated DADT........You speak of something you know nothing about........



http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt


About “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
What Is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"
•Passed by Congress in 1993, DADT is a law mandating the discharge of openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual service members.
•More than 13,500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.



you just know nothing about it DD
 
Last edited:
Navy Pride said:
Again you are wrong.....There have been thousand of people who violated DADT........You speak of something you know nothing about........



Servicemembers Legal Defense Network


About “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
What Is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"
•Passed by Congress in 1993, DADT is a law mandating the discharge of openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual service members.
•More than 13,500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.



you just know nothing about it DD
Click to expand...

So in 15 years 13,500 have been fired under DADT.
That's less than 1000 a year.

Proof once again that gay men and women ( and straight ones as well) are able to control their sexual urges (unlike you Navy... once again.....you are fooled by your own posts)....

Plus Navy....look at the Department of defense statistics. Most discharges under DADT are not "conduct based" but rather based on admissions of sexual orientation.

Navy...you are simply embarrassing yourself.

Just because you can't control your dick....doesn't mean that most people can't.

Gay and Lesbian women are proving you wrong every day....and I would expect that most straight men and women have more control over their sexual urges than you do as well.
 
Last edited:
Navy Pride said:
Again you are wrong.....There have been thousand of people who violated DADT........You speak of something you know nothing about........



Servicemembers Legal Defense Network


About “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
What Is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"
•Passed by Congress in 1993, DADT is a law mandating the discharge of openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual service members.
•More than 13,500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.



you just know nothing about it DD
Click to expand...


By the way Navy.....from YOUR own link:

Military Attitudes
73 percent of military personnel are comfortable with lesbians and gays

So much for your argument that soldiers will bail right and left if DADT is ended.

See....Navy....Most Americans aren't as bigoted as you believe them to be.
 
Also from YOUR Link Navy:

Seventy-five percent of Americans support gays serving openly - up from just 44 percent in 1993.


The VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS support gays serving openly.

Why don't you allow the voice of America to rule like you always claim?
Huh...Navy?
 
Wow....also from YOUR link Navy...:


In 1993 RAND Corp. concluded that openly gay people in the U.S. military do not negatively impact unit cohesion, morale, good order, or military readiness.
Several other military-commissioned and GAO studies have concluded that open service does not undermine military readiness, troop morale or national security.

Great Link Navy.....glad to see that you know how to support your arguments with a link.....NOT! :doh:doh:doh
 
disneydude said:
So in 15 years 13,500 have been fired under DADT.
That's less than 1000 a year.

Proof once again that gay men and women ( and straight ones as well) are able to control their sexual urges (unlike you Navy... once again.....you are fooled by your own posts)....

Plus Navy....look at the Department of defense statistics. Most discharges under DADT are not "conduct based" but rather based on admissions of sexual orientation.

Navy...you are simply embarrassing yourself.

Just because you can't control your dick....doesn't mean that most people can't.

Gay and Lesbian women are proving you wrong every day....and I would expect that most straight men and women have more control over their sexual urges than you do as well.
Click to expand...

You really don't think that is a lot?????you eally cracck me up DD.......You my friend are in a state of denial.........:rofl bye
 
disneydude said:
Wow....also from YOUR link Navy...:


In 1993 RAND Corp. concluded that openly gay people in the U.S. military do not negatively impact unit cohesion, morale, good order, or military readiness.
Several other military-commissioned and GAO studies have concluded that open service does not undermine military readiness, troop morale or national security.

Great Link Navy.....glad to see that you know how to support your arguments with a link.....NOT! :doh:doh:doh
Click to expand...

That bull **** was posted 20 pages back by your buddy Hautey...........keep up DD.....it has already been discounted


Did you watch your daddy Obama the other night.....did you see what the Joint chiefs did when he tried to get gay votes????
 
Last edited:
Navy Pride said:
Personally I don't hate anything but I know it would be very wrong for gays to serve openly in the military especially the Navy.......There would be a mass exodus of Senior officers and Chiefs leaving the Navy........There would be violence against openly gays............I am not saying that its right, I am just saying that is what would happen.........It could very easily destroy the very fabric of our military.....
Click to expand...

Place holder for when you are proven completely wrong and your credibility is destroyed forever.
 
CriticalThought said:
Place holder for when you are proven completely wrong and your credibility is destroyed forever.
Click to expand...

That is the best you got huh?:rofl Come back when you have something to add instead of attacking me.........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom